Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Lost Mango]

Didn't say it was 'just the media' I said it was pumped into the media - as it serves a purpose for certain political sections and it sells to a certain demographic so the media are happy to amplify it as it brings revenue. The same as the media amplified the benefit scrounger issue but ignore the tax evasion issue, for example.

The issue with GPs and the NHS isn't immigration and NHS tourists (another media amplified non-story). It is of massive under investment since the 80s with only a slight catch up in the early 00s.
The issue with housing isn't immigrants it is a shambolic housing policy since the 80s and the non-replacement of sold off council housing stock and the lobbying of developers who make a bigger profit margin on nice housing and not affordable housing.
Every economic study of the last 10 years has shown that wage stagnation has had absolutely nothing to do with being undercut by Eastern Europeans but to do with government economic policy. But the story serves a purpose. (And the stabbings and rapes by non-immigrants proportionally outweigh those by immigrants so that is anecdotal overblow as well).

There are localized immigration and multi-culturalism problems. Not denying that but it isn't the nationwide plague that is portrayed or the financial drain on the system.

 

[Lilbaz]

Didn't say it was 'just the media' I said it was pumped into the media - as it serves a purpose for certain political sections and it sells to a certain demographic so the media are happy to amplify it as it brings revenue. The same as the media amplified the benefit scrounger issue but ignore the tax evasion issue, for example.

The issue with GPs and the NHS isn't immigration and NHS tourists (another media amplified non-story). It is of massive under investment since the 80s with only a slight catch up in the early 00s.
The issue with housing isn't immigrants it is a shambolic housing policy since the 80s and the non-replacement of sold off council housing stock and the lobbying of developers who make a bigger profit margin on nice housing and not affordable housing.
Every economic study of the last 10 years has shown that wage stagnation has had absolutely nothing to do with being undercut by Eastern Europeans but to do with government economic policy. But the story serves a purpose. (And the stabbings and rapes by non-immigrants proportionally outweigh those by immigrants so that is anecdotal overblow as well).

There are localized immigration and multi-culturalism problems. Not denying that but it isn't the nationwide plague that is portrayed or the financial drain on the system.

Yes people know most immigrants are fantastic people. Nobody is asking to stop all immigration. They just want it controlled.

Housing, yes massive underinvestment. No argument. But millions of immigrants exacerbate a problem that isn't being solved.

Yes economic studies say immigrants don't suppress wages. But then you get studies saying how economists are baffled that full employment isn't increasing wages.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that the uk was not at full employment, when there were 700 million eu citizens also in the pool.

The wage hikes this year are proof of the lie.

 

[Lilbaz]

I was brought up with an immigrant father. My mothers family were coal miners.
We were a halfway house during the miners strikes.
Protesters would stay at our house. Take me to school.
I'd see them come back battered by the police.
I saw the tie pins on the police aspmm. Arthur scargill paid my mortgage.

So i'm not a tory. I detest them. They will sell off our country bit by bit.
But labour is now infested with this new generation of marxists. Don't believe in borders or our culture. They're not for the working class anymore. They'll give the country away.
They think the snp, Plaid Cymru, sinn fein etc... are the same. They're not. They are nationalists, wanting the best for their people.

The red wall turned blue for a reason.

Starmer i think understands this and is trying to clear the party. I doubt he can though.

So we will be left with a bricky tory government.

Yay.

 

[Lilbaz]

But lets pretend everyone is stupid and racist so we can keep our moral superiority.

 

[glasgowspur]

I was brought up with an immigrant father. My mothers family were coal miners.
We were a halfway house during the miners strikes.
Protesters would stay at our house. Take me to school.
I'd see them come back battered by the police.
I saw the tie pins on the police aspmm. Arthur scargill paid my mortgage.

So i'm not a tory. I detest them. They will sell off our country bit by bit.
But labour is now infested with this new generation of marxists. Don't believe in borders or our culture. They're not for the working class anymore. They'll give the country away.
They think the snp, Plaid Cymru, sinn fein etc... are the same. They're not. They are nationalists, wanting the best for their people.

The red wall turned blue for a reason.

Starmer i think understands this and is trying to clear the party. I doubt he can though.

So we will be left with a bricky tory government.

Yay.

The snp give not a jot about the people, all they want is power.
And they virtue signal to anyone for a vote.
They are ripping Scotland apart.
Im a floating voter, i vote for who i think is best at time. I will never, ever vote for the snp.

 

[Lilbaz]

The snp give not a jot about the people, all they want is power.
And they virtue signal to anyone for a vote.
They are ripping Scotland apart.
Im a floating voter, i vote for who i think is best at time. I will never, ever vote for the snp.

I was more talking the people that vote for them. It's about nationalism and thinking they will do more for them than tories or labour.

 

[Robspur12]

You really think this has anything to do with the media? People have eyes and experience whats going on first hand. Being on a waiting list for a council flat but turned down because a somalian family has more kids than you. Then having to move to tottenham or edgware. Away from you parents. They get old, but you live too far away to pop round every day to see if they are alright. Do a bit of shopping for them. Meanwhile they are scarred to go out because people don't speak the same language as them and gangs are having sword fights in the streets.
Meanwhile gps being paid by person they have registered rather than people treated rack up huge amounts of patients that they can't see. Although on walk in days the office is full of women in hijabs getting painkillers and shampoo. Because they won't pay for them in a shop.
Then you get the big ones. The stabbings, the rapes, the terror attacks.
Then you have the eastern europeans undercutting your work as a painter and decorator. You have a wife and two kids to look after. Rent to pay. These boys are 20, living 6 to a room and sending most money back home to buy a house. If you are lucky your wages stay the same. For 10 years.

I've got no problem with immigrants themselves. My father was one. But gonad*s is it just the media.

I can't say that you are racist as I don't know you. But this post paints a picture that immigrants are solely responsible for the issues you describe. But it seems to me that every thing you ascribe to an immigrant could equally be ascribed to a native. There are definitely issues around some immigrant communities and integration, but there are often a complex combination of factors at play whereas the solutions appear simple to your average farage supporting person.

Now you can criticise the likes of me for pointing this out, you probably think I am being politically correct, but I find the tone of the post cheap and nasty. It may well represent the views of many natives (I don't think it does the majority) but I will still exercise my right to call it out.

Let me explain to you about my family circumstances. My dad was born into poverty in a foreign country. He wanted to train as a doctor in the 60s but his family were too poor to afford it. He left school at 15 (luckily his dad believed in education otherwise it would have been earlier like many of his peers) then worked as a Labourer on a building site to bring in money to support his sister through school and provide for his family. He still wanted a better life so he applied to train as a nurse in the UK; he borrowed and saved money and came to England with just a suitcase to his name. He knew no one and everyone looked different to him, he'd never even eaten English food and the racism when he arrived in 1969? You can't even imagine. Completed his training then worked like a dog to not only save for a house here but also to send back money to continue supporting his folks. In the 80s the interest rates rose to 15% which meant his mortgage repayments suddenly shot up. Did he complain? No, he got on with it; worked shifts from 7am-9pm to keep the roof over our heads. He missed my sister and I growing up because he was always workin.
There are plenty of examples like him in the immigrant community.

My dad didn't look around him and think the country owed him a council house, or a job. He worked to get both his own home and moved around to get better jobs. When he was made redundant in the 90s because his hospital closed he went back to college and studied so he could get a community nursing job. In all that time he paid all his taxes too no cash in hand work.

He left his mum, dad and sister in his home country thousands of miles away and to this day despite being 75 years old he still is paying for his 94 year old mum to be looked after 24 hours a day by carers.

So it's amazing what you can do if you don't sit around blaming other people or believe that the country owes you a living or a house. I can see why lots of people are looking for others to blame for their predicament but I rather suspect if they didn't have the immigrants they would just find another spacegoat. I tell you what the farage supporting people might not like what I have to say but I couldn't care less, I prefer a country made up of people like my dad than entitled fudgewits calling themselves British looking around for spacegoats.

 

[Lilbaz]

I can't say that you are racist as I don't know you. But this post paints a picture that immigrants are solely responsible for the issues you describe. But it seems to me that every thing you ascribe to an immigrant could equally be ascribed to a native. There are definitely issues around some immigrant communities and integration, but there are often a complex combination of factors at play whereas the solutions appear simple to your average farage supporting person.

Now you can criticise the likes of me for pointing this out, you probably think I am being politically correct, but I find the tone of the post cheap and nasty. It may well represent the views of many natives (I don't think it does the majority) but I will still exercise my right to call it out.

Let me explain to you about my family circumstances. My dad was born into poverty in a foreign country. He wanted to train as a doctor in the 60s but his family were too poor to afford it. He left school at 15 (luckily his dad believed in education otherwise it would have been earlier like many of his peers) then worked as a Labourer on a building site to bring in money to support his sister through school and provide for his family. He still wanted a better life so he applied to train as a nurse in the UK; he borrowed and saved money and came to England with just a suitcase to his name. He knew no one and everyone looked different to him, the racism when he arrived in 1969? You can't even imagine. Completed his training then worked like a dog to not only save for a house here but also to send back money to continue supporting his folks. In the 80s the interest rates rose to 15% which meant his mortgage repayments suddenly shot up. Did he complain? No, he got on with it; worked shifts from 7am-9pm to keep the roof over our heads. He missed my sister and I growing up because he was always workin.
There are plenty of examples like him in the immigrant community.

My dad didn't look around him and think the country owed him a council house, or a job. He worked to get both his own home and moved around to get better jobs. When he was made redundant in the 90s because his hospital closed he went back to college and studied so he could get a community nursing job. In all that time he paid all his taxes too no cash in hand work.

He left his mum, dad and sister in his home country thousands of miles away and to this day despite being 75 years old he still is paying for his 94 year old mum to be looked after 24 hours a day by carers.

So it's amazing what you can do if you don't sit around blaming other people or believe that the country owes you a living or a house. I can see why lots of people are looking for others to blame for their predicament but I rather suspect if they didn't have the immigrants they would just find another spacegoat. I tell you what the farage supporting people might not like what I have to say but I couldn't care less, I prefer a country made up of people like my dad than entitled natives looking around for spacegoats.

Lol. I worked as did my parents. Paid taxes my whole life.

It's not me that thinks this country owes them a living or a house.

 

[Lilbaz]

Now just rock up on a boat.

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

 

[Lilbaz]

So just to make my point clear you said "believe that the country owes you a living or a house".

Yet for asylum seekers that is exactly what is believed and happening.

 

[Bullet]

Now just rock up on a boat.

To get £39 per week and £3 per week for a baby.

 

[Lilbaz]

To get £39 per week and £3 per week for a baby.

Universal credit you don't get more after bills.

 

[Lilbaz]

Don't worry. Put it down to me being a racist. The uk looking after it's own first is racist these days.

But even if i am racist and anti european or whatever. Are my points not valid?

Or is it just easier to class me racist so you can dismiss my points, as they come from a racist? Cause racists points of view have no merit. Therefore you automatically win the discussion.

 

[glasgowspur]

I can't say that you are racist as I don't know you. But this post paints a picture that immigrants are solely responsible for the issues you describe. But it seems to me that every thing you ascribe to an immigrant could equally be ascribed to a native. There are definitely issues around some immigrant communities and integration, but there are often a complex combination of factors at play whereas the solutions appear simple to your average farage supporting person.

Now you can criticise the likes of me for pointing this out, you probably think I am being politically correct, but I find the tone of the post cheap and nasty. It may well represent the views of many natives (I don't think it does the majority) but I will still exercise my right to call it out.

Let me explain to you about my family circumstances. My dad was born into poverty in a foreign country. He wanted to train as a doctor in the 60s but his family were too poor to afford it. He left school at 15 (luckily his dad believed in education otherwise it would have been earlier like many of his peers) then worked as a Labourer on a building site to bring in money to support his sister through school and provide for his family. He still wanted a better life so he applied to train as a nurse in the UK; he borrowed and saved money and came to England with just a suitcase to his name. He knew no one and everyone looked different to him, he'd never even eaten English food and the racism when he arrived in 1969? You can't even imagine. Completed his training then worked like a dog to not only save for a house here but also to send back money to continue supporting his folks. In the 80s the interest rates rose to 15% which meant his mortgage repayments suddenly shot up. Did he complain? No, he got on with it; worked shifts from 7am-9pm to keep the roof over our heads. He missed my sister and I growing up because he was always workin.
There are plenty of examples like him in the immigrant community.

My dad didn't look around him and think the country owed him a council house, or a job. He worked to get both his own home and moved around to get better jobs. When he was made redundant in the 90s because his hospital closed he went back to college and studied so he could get a community nursing job. In all that time he paid all his taxes too no cash in hand work.

He left his mum, dad and sister in his home country thousands of miles away and to this day despite being 75 years old he still is paying for his 94 year old mum to be looked after 24 hours a day by carers.

So it's amazing what you can do if you don't sit around blaming other people or believe that the country owes you a living or a house. I can see why lots of people are looking for others to blame for their predicament but I rather suspect if they didn't have the immigrants they would just find another spacegoat. I tell you what the farage supporting people might not like what I have to say but I couldn't care less, I prefer a country made up of people like my dad than entitled fudgewits calling themselves British looking around for spacegoats.

Great post.
Thankfully there are more people in the world like your dad than we realise.
Unfortunately they are the ones that are overlooked and taken for granted.

 

[Rorschach]

The snp give not a jot about the people, all they want is power.
And they virtue signal to anyone for a vote.
They are ripping Scotland apart.
Im a floating voter, i vote for who i think is best at time. I will never, ever vote for the snp.

A floater?

 

[glasgowspur]

A floater?

I'm not wedded to or blinded by an ideology.
My vote is given to who i think deserves it, an increasingly small number, my vote is loaned, if you abuse it (which they all invariably do) i will take it elsewhere next time.
I consider that a healthier attitude than ticking a box just because of the colour of rosette.
Look at the state of Scotland and its politics.
It has went from the red of Labour to the yellow of the snp.
Labour lost the trust because they were a bunch of self serving swindlers that thought they could never be voted out.
Problem is that its those same crooks and swindlers that crossed over to the snp when they got found out. Its something like 60% of snp councillors are ex labour councillors. Same troughers, different colour rosette.
The SNP have ruled for 14 years with a mantra of never vote tory, because if you do we can be held to account.

 

[Bullet]

^^^This is my issue with voting

None of them deserve it, all of them are self-serving swindlers in it for themselves.

Disgusting bunch to choose from, none deserve a vote. All deserve a slap.

 

[Rorschach]

I'm not wedded to or blinded by an ideology.
My vote is given to who i think deserves it, an increasingly small number, my vote is loaned, if you abuse it (which they all invariably do) i will take it elsewhere next time.
I consider that a healthier attitude than ticking a box just because of the colour of rosette.
Look at the state of Scotland and its politics.
It has went from the red of Labour to the yellow of the snp.
Labour lost the trust because they were a bunch of self serving swindlers that thought they could never be voted out.
Problem is that its those same crooks and swindlers that crossed over to the snp when they got found out. Its something like 60% of snp councillors are ex labour councillors. Same troughers, different colour rosette.
The SNP have ruled for 14 years with a mantra of never vote tory, because if you do we can be held to account.

Well it was joke about turds but thanks for elaborating

 

[Gutter Boy]

Didn't say it was 'just the media' I said it was pumped into the media - as it serves a purpose for certain political sections and it sells to a certain demographic so the media are happy to amplify it as it brings revenue. The same as the media amplified the benefit scrounger issue but ignore the tax evasion issue, for example.

The issue with GPs and the NHS isn't immigration and NHS tourists (another media amplified non-story). It is of massive under investment since the 80s with only a slight catch up in the early 00s.
The issue with housing isn't immigrants it is a shambolic housing policy since the 80s and the non-replacement of sold off council housing stock and the lobbying of developers who make a bigger profit margin on nice housing and not affordable housing.
Every economic study of the last 10 years has shown that wage stagnation has had absolutely nothing to do with being undercut by Eastern Europeans but to do with government economic policy. But the story serves a purpose. (And the stabbings and rapes by non-immigrants proportionally outweigh those by immigrants so that is anecdotal overblow as well).

There are localized immigration and multi-culturalism problems. Not denying that but it isn't the nationwide plague that is portrayed or the financial drain on the system.

It's a bit of both. Creaking infrastructure is caused by i) increasing use and ii) underinvestment. Increasing use tends to come from increasing population (as well as an ageing population). And in this country for the last 20 years our population has increased because of immigration, not birth rates.

It's been a political decision (Thatcher and Blair), to play ponzi scheme with our economy and have the whole thing based on importing low pay workers. So the population has grown, but then hasn't be catered for - we'd need to build a new Manchester every decade to accommodate the rises.

In some ways it's a repeat of the 50s. Immigrants have caused pressure on the state system. But they've very deliberately been incentivised to come. And the individuals themselves are generally high contributors, not the burden (that is the native underclass; but then how much is their situation determined by being 'outcompeted' for the lowest jobs, or would that always happen?).

It's basically EU and UK govt sponsored social dumping - one of the nastier sides of the neo-liberal system we live in.

It'll be interesting to see what happens now, now we have shifted less neo-liberal. With immigration cut and the population stable/possibly starting the shirk, will we end up going fully Japan (the big first world economic power that doesn't rely on immigration)?

 

[Diamond Lights]

Our politcal system is broken with FPTP system.