Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[robp135]

Ideally everything in the UK should be roughly 50% male/female, 85/15% white/non-white and 92/8% state/public. Then everybody is winning and society is functioning at its optimum

Private education is better. Even when they are getting less money than a state school the kids still perform better.

 

[robp135]

Is centre politics just absolutely dead now in the eye of society?

It doesn’t seem to matter what happens, everything just becomes “oh the loony left” or “oh the racist right”. No one actually seems that bothered now about the actual issue central to the debate, just making the point that ‘the other side’ did something. Everything has to be black or white now.

It’s almost like a bunch of powerful people had it their way for a long time and decided that the best way to keep it that way was to divide society and make them blame each other so they could continue unnoticed.

You even have some viewpoints that switch from left to right over time but would never be considered moderate.

 

[Rafa87]

You even have some viewpoints that switch from left to right over time but would never be considered moderate.

But do you never just feel like at the moment everything feels very much you’re this side or the other? I appreciate not many are likely completely central, but there’s more nuance and as you say views shift and there are people who have some left views and some right views and some of course on a sliding scale, but so much of what I read now just feels you’re either here, or all the way over there and you have to pick a side, it’s nuts.

 

[Mikey10]

It's about equality, diversity and representation.

92% of the population are state school educated, therefore 92% of cabinet (or boards of directors etc.) should be the same. Otherwise it's not a meritocracy, and you are getting the thickos who had to buy privilege running things (see the failure of government 2010-24) instead of the most capable people.

Lot of rather odd assumptions about private education there.

And Burnham’s cabinet is therefore not a sign of progress by your metric, it’s a fairly significant step backwards.

Edit: And, according to Sky News just now, his cabinet has the highest percentage ever of Oxbridge graduates.

 

[Baleforce]

Ideally everything in the UK should be roughly 50% male/female, 85/15% white/non-white and 92/8% state/public. Then everybody is winning and society is functioning at its optimum

I don't agree with that.

That's making assumptions on personalities based on specific characteristics.

A. not everyone is either male or female.
B. the best people at any one time may all be from a single demographic

It should be about the individuals.

 

[Baleforce]

Much of politics is binary. Nationalisation vs privatisation, freedom vs utilitarianism, individual vs community.

Those tensions are as old as time

It just needs respectful disagreement - that's what has been damaged since the late 70s

again I disagree, its only binary on the fringes, most of us in the middle can disagree agreeably and accept a little give and take

its the extremes that poison everything

we need to get back to what we had in the 90's and early 2000's imo

 

[Baleforce]

But do you never just feel like at the moment everything feels very much you’re this side or the other? I appreciate not many are likely completely central, but there’s more nuance and as you say views shift and there are people who have some left views and some right views and some of course on a sliding scale, but so much of what I read now just feels you’re either here, or all the way over there and you have to pick a side, it’s nuts.

I think the issue is where people get their news from, I don't think people are as divided as the extremes would have us believe, its just that a lot are too busy/lazy/bored/disinterested to validate the claims they see on social media

 

[Jurgen the German]

You even have some viewpoints that switch from left to right over time but would never be considered moderate.

Free speech is a good example. I feel like it used to be a left wing cause, and now the right have hijacked it. Free speech should be something everyone advocates for.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Free speech is a good example. I feel like it used to be a left wing cause, and now the right have hijacked it. Free speech should be something everyone advocates for.

Being able to say something is fine. But suffering societal consequences because of it is part of that free world. I think the right struggle with that more than anything.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Being able to say something is fine. But suffering societal consequences because of it is part of that free world. I think the right struggle with that more than anything.

Absolutely fine with that. Freedom of speech doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences.

I could point to plenty of examples of the right trying to cancel people on the left—Colin Kaepernick is an obvious one. That said, I do think it's become more of a problem on the left than it was 15 years ago.

Take the shout-downs of speakers on college campuses. If you don't like what a speaker has to say, don't attend the lecture. Trying to stop someone else from hearing them is a different matter.

It often seems like a lot of people support free speech only when it's speech they agree with. Netflix had the right approach a few years ago when some employees objected to Dave Chappelle's comedy special. The company's response was essentially: if you choose to work at Netflix, you'll sometimes have to work on content you dislike or find uncomfortable. That strikes me as a much healthier attitude than expecting controversial speech to be removed altogether

 

[robp135]

Absolutely fine with that. Freedom of speech doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences.

I could point to plenty of examples of the right trying to cancel people on the left—Colin Kaepernick is an obvious one. That said, I do think it's become more of a problem on the left than it was 15 years ago.

Take the shout-downs of speakers on college campuses. If you don't like what a speaker has to say, don't attend the lecture. Trying to stop someone else from hearing them is a different matter.

It often seems like a lot of people support free speech only when it's speech they agree with. Netflix had the right approach a few years ago when some employees objected to Dave Chappelle's comedy special. The company's response was essentially: if you choose to work at Netflix, you'll sometimes have to work on content you dislike or find uncomfortable. That strikes me as a much healthier attitude than expecting controversial speech to be removed altogether

The Skokie Case: How I Came To Represent The Free Speech Rights Of Nazis | ACLU

In 1977, the ACLU of Illinois received a call from a Nazi leader complaining that his planned demonstration had been blocked. The ensuing legal battle, and the controversy around it, would test the organization’s commitment to the First Amendment.

www.aclu.org

 

[robp135]

Free speech is a good example. I feel like it used to be a left wing cause, and now the right have hijacked it. Free speech should be something everyone advocates for.

Yep. Ive taken some brick for my view on vaccines on this site. Prior to 2020 it was a complete left wing viewpoint. Anti big pharma, pro bodily autonomy. As with free speech it didn't go from being left to center to right it just jumped.

 

[thfcsteff]

It’s really not and deep down you know that.

... ...yes. It is.

I have no idea who would say what IF similar were to happen to Corbyn. If you do, fantastic, and this is the moment where I'll ask if your knowledge of potential futureevents stretches to the right numbers for a future super lotto (in which case send me a PM and we'll go halves!)...

 

[thfcsteff]

I think the issue is where people get their news from, I don't think people are as divided as the extremes would have us believe, its just that a lot are too busy/lazy/bored/disinterested to validate the claims they see on social media

I think this is a very interesting sub-debate, and is well-worthy of discussion. I'll say in the places I go around the world, I am largely (and consistently) met with a large degree of people who want the same things and act in ways you'd hope society would. Yet social media amplifies bad stuff. It's an interesting discussion...

 

[thfcsteff]

Yep. Ive taken some brick for my view on vaccines on this site. Prior to 2020 it was a complete left wing viewpoint. Anti big pharma, pro bodily autonomy. As with free speech it didn't go from being left to center to right it just jumped.

I think that's a gross miscategorization.
Anti-vaccination was never a 'complete left-wing viewpoint' at all. It was far more centrist/libertarian than anything else, and most aligned to those who vehemently oppose any sort of government intervention in life.
My parents would've been 'left-wing' for sure in the '70s, they were all about natural whole foods and bodily autonomy, yet they were also supportive of vaccinations and even got me fluoride treatment for my teeth as a kid (this whilst in a council house).

(ironic footnote which always made me laugh - my council flat anti-Maggie parents ended up buying their council flat for pennies on the pound as part of Thatcher's initiative to create a larger private sector and smash council housing. The irony!)...