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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
monkeybarry
Dimitar Berbatov
Would you say the same if instead of Palestine Action it said IRA, or Al Qaeda, or Nazi?
PA are a prescribed terrorist organisation - whether you agree or disagree with that doesn't matter (it's a different argument); this is an offence.
A choice is possible - stand with Palestine; stand for "action in Palestine" etc etc. Specifically stating Palestine Action is support for a terrorist organisation.
I very much doubt many of them actually support Palestine Action, but instead support the cause of the Palestinians - so wearing a Palestine Action t-shirt/flag is pure stupidity and ignorance. There are plenty of pro Palestinian groups around - they've been singing the tune on Whitehall for decades.
monkeybarry
Dimitar Berbatov
Cognitively Unimpressive National Triumphalist Spokespeople, the lot of them
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Legally speaking it's about PA actually being terrorists. The legal advice was clear it was shaky ground. Yvette Cooper rushed it through. These people are disagreeing with the terror status.
If it was an actual terror organisation I would say it was the same. IRA. IDF. ISIS. Hamas.
If it was the Suffragettes designated like this I'd be aghast.
Criminal damage is not terrorism. Charge them and convict them for that.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
What if it said 'Free Nelson Mandela'? Seeing as the ANC were a prescribed terrorist organisation when our government was buddies with the apartide regime
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Declan Rice off to prison too: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/mar/21/declan-rice-apologises-ira-social-media-england
johnola
Vedran Corluka
Sorry what when was that?
johnola
Vedran Corluka
and of course all foreign airports are in the EU.
monkeybarry
Dimitar Berbatov
They are a terrorist organisation as per the laws/policies of the country.
I happen to agree with the last para. based upon what is in the public domain; however, it has been mentioned that there are non public informations that point to something more dangerous.
But that's why I specifically said to disregard views about the designation - the designation is the designation, any challenges to that should be via judicial process.
So I can see no issue with anyone supporting Palestine Action being arrested - they are supporting a terrorist organisation.
If they want to support the cause of PA - do so.
But no-one can complain about being arrested for supporting the group itself.
And, much like the suffragette movement (who almost certainly would be prescribed if around today - they planted bombs if I remember correctly), it may turn out that those people supporting Palestine Action end up on the right side of history and me on the wrong side.
Edit
Suffragette bombing and arson campaign - Wikipedia
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monkeybarry
Dimitar Berbatov
Then the same would apply.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as is the "one man's terrorist Vs one man's freedom fighter" quote - but we have to deal with the now.
There is no doubt, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist; philosophy determines whether that's good or bad. Similarly with the Suffragettes, the IRA, ETA, the ANC etc.
Mandela is a really interesting example in this context too - hindsight shows us we were wrong to consider him that way. However, he was fighting a tyrannical govt in his own country; PA are attacking/plotting to attack (if the inferences about non public domain intelligence are trustworthy) this country for a cause elsewhere - violence to exert polical pressure is terrorism.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
1987. At a conference in Vancouver. Thatcher was trying to drum up international support for her apartheid pals, and declared Mandela and the ANC terrorists.
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Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
The parallel is the British government being on the wrong side of history, in contrast to public opinion. Backing the Far Right oppressors and genocide deliverers, over the oppressed and suffering.
PA arent domestic terrorists. They symbolic daubed blood coloured paint on some bombs that were heading to a genocide. It was a Greenham Common gesture
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Like the Suffragettes attacked parliament with their flour
Baleforce
Mark Falco
Again, there isn’t nuance in these things, certain lines are crossed, certain designations are assigned.
The law is that PA are a terrorist organisation, other pro Palestine organisations are available.
The suffragettes were terrorists.
Baleforce
Mark Falco
It’s not a matter of perspective, it’s a matter of law.
You can’t break into a military installation, damage an aircraft worth millions, leave a political slogan and not have that considered a terrorist act.
There are flow charts of rules in play here. There is no consideration, or discussion or weighting, just truth gates, if this, then that.
Rorschach
Fanny Walden
And a matter of morals. It was paint. fudge the flow charts.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Its purely political - Cooper and Lammy are in the pockets of the Israelis. Just like Putin had his useful idiots embedded across Europe and the US