Physio advice - quads issue

[Gutter Boy]

Any physios on here, or athletes of some form with experience in this area? I could do with a bit of advice please.

I'm really struggling to shake off thigh strains (both legs, my kicking one is worse). I did it the end of last season (end of April) when I was playing 3 games a week to clear our fixture backlog. Even though I've had the summer off (8 odd weeks), now back attempting to do pre-season I'm still troubled by them. They just feel really fragile (van der Vaart tracing paper style) - even a semi-hard side foot pass feels like it's about to go again, let alone attempting putting my foot through the ball. I've been sure they were only grade 1 tears, as there has never been any pain to touch like you get with a 2. Also relevant perhaps is that I had an ACL about 10 years ago, so I'm worried about my quads withering while I'm resting them, as I know strong quads protect my knee.

I actually need two bits of advice:

1) Short-term - I have a once in a lifetime match I have to play in in a fortnights time. Does anyone have a magic remedy to get me ready for/through that? Magic oils, gels, potions, massages etc.

2) Longer-term - What can I do to get them fixed properly for the start of the season. Will weights or cycling do good, or are they likely to be as harmful as trying to play? I.e. is there anything constructive I can do, rather than just rest (also re the ACL concern I mentioned).

Any advice greatly received. Thanks

 

[a spur from swansea]

Since its been a good two months and you still feeling some niggles i would start from the begining,get an x-ray scan or a mri scan to see if its more than a strain,its only then you will know what the next step will be,if its just a normal strain then you best thing to do is to see a proper sports physio,they'll give you some sound advice and a time table on a plan of treatment.

Perhaps one thing you could do is to goto a swimming pool and walk through the water just above waist height,this will gently stretch the muscle fibres without to much strain,do some stretches before and after. I know one thing about strains and pulls its time thats more important than anything else,starting to run before you walk will only hamper your recovery and you be always going around in a circle and you will always be hampered by the injury.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Since its been a good two months and you still feeling some niggles i would start from the begining,get an x-ray scan or a mri scan to see if its more than a strain,its only then you will know what the next step will be,if its just a normal strain then you best thing to do is to see a proper sports physio,they'll give you some sound advice and a time table on a plan of treatment.

Perhaps one thing you could do is to goto a swimming pool and walk through the water just above waist height,this will gently stretch the muscle fibres without to much strain,do some stretches before and after. I know one thing about strains and pulls its time thats more important than anything else,starting to run before you walk will only hamper your recovery and you be always going around in a circle and you will always be hampered by the injury.

Thanks mate. What would an x-ray be looking for?

I know you last point is very true, but muscle injuries are so frustrating. I'm ok working hard at to try and fix something (ACL rehab etc), and find resting is much more difficult.

 

[Gifter]

Magnesium is key for muscle relaxation throughout the body, if you are deficient your muscles may then may tighten further and cause tension/pulling on the joints and connective tissues (or tear due to increased tension as in your case). It's much more likely to be a dietary issue if you are warming up/down and fit IMO.

Magnesium sulphate baths followed by cold showers, 4 or 5 times a week if you are serious. Murray is doing a weaker version of this on TV now, bringing oxygen into tissue and allowing acid to be removed more effectively. If you are really serious then 1kg Magnesium Sulphate (on 25kg bags of BP food grade Epsom Salts it's a quid a KG on Ebay) per bath, as hot as you can handle, with 1/2 litre of 35% H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide - food grade), 1/2 KG of Himalayan Salt (Sodium and 70+ accompanying minerals).

Just the epsom salts alone would produce good results IMO.

No protein 6 hours before sleep would be my suggestion also, good breakfast, big lunch, light diner (or earlier dinner than most). This keeps the body with the best oxygen saturation during sleep, which will better allow healing between exercise/training. If you eat a heavy protein meal you feel sleepy, this is because it requires more oxygen to digest (= less for the rest of the body to use...).

Good luck.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Magnesium is key for muscle relaxation throughout the body, if you are deficient your muscles may then may tighten further and cause tension/pulling on the joints and connective tissues (or tear due to increased tension as in your case). It's much more likely to be a dietary issue if you are warming up/down and fit IMO.

Magnesium sulphate baths followed by cold showers, 4 or 5 times a week if you are serious. Murray is doing a weaker version of this on TV now, bringing oxygen into tissue and allowing acid to be removed more effectively. If you are really serious then 1kg Magnesium Sulphate (on 25kg bags of BP food grade Epsom Salts it's a quid a KG on Ebay) per bath, as hot as you can handle, with 1/2 litre of 35% H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide - food grade), 1/2 KG of Himalayan Salt (Sodium and 70+ accompanying minerals).

Just the epsom salts alone would produce good results IMO.

No protein 6 hours before sleep would be my suggestion also, good breakfast, big lunch, light diner (or earlier dinner than most). This keeps the body with the best oxygen saturation during sleep, which will better allow healing between exercise/training. If you eat a heavy protein meal you feel sleepy, this is because it requires more oxygen to digest (= less for the rest of the body to use...).

Good luck.

Thanks - that's really useful. Magnesium is a new one to me. I've been trying Arnica oil, based on a teammate's suggestion, but with no discernable benefit. Will definitely give this a try.

 

[mjc23]

Sounds like they need strengthening again. If it's both then it probably a bio mechanics issue. I'd do some single leg squats on a decline board so your heels are higher than your toes, this removes your calf compensating the strain. Try pushing your thumb/finger into your quad as you do it to check that part of the muscle is firing properly.
Just body weight should be enough.

 

[mjc23]

Plenty of stretching too, hold for at least 30 seconds. Do you do any core strengthening exercises, very important for weak quads / hamstrings.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Magnesium is key for muscle relaxation throughout the body, if you are deficient your muscles may then may tighten further and cause tension/pulling on the joints and connective tissues (or tear due to increased tension as in your case). It's much more likely to be a dietary issue if you are warming up/down and fit IMO.

Magnesium sulphate baths followed by cold showers, 4 or 5 times a week if you are serious. Murray is doing a weaker version of this on TV now, bringing oxygen into tissue and allowing acid to be removed more effectively. If you are really serious then 1kg Magnesium Sulphate (on 25kg bags of BP food grade Epsom Salts it's a quid a KG on Ebay) per bath, as hot as you can handle, with 1/2 litre of 35% H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide - food grade), 1/2 KG of Himalayan Salt (Sodium and 70+ accompanying minerals).

Just the epsom salts alone would produce good results IMO.

No protein 6 hours before sleep would be my suggestion also, good breakfast, big lunch, light diner (or earlier dinner than most). This keeps the body with the best oxygen saturation during sleep, which will better allow healing between exercise/training. If you eat a heavy protein meal you feel sleepy, this is because it requires more oxygen to digest (= less for the rest of the body to use...).

Good luck.

You're suggesting some one who is injured eats less protein, as in the fundemental building blocks which are used to repair an injured muscle??

My suggestion would be to do the star rehab protocol. Worked for me for both my hamstring tears and my thigh strain. I play football too.

Here's a link for it;

http://www.sugdenbarbell.co.uk/forum/bill-starr-rehab-protocol-for-muscle-injuries-5382

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Sounds like they need strengthening again. If it's both then it probably a bio mechanics issue. I'd do some single leg squats on a decline board so your heels are higher than your toes, this removes your calf compensating the strain. Try pushing your thumb/finger into your quad as you do it to check that part of the muscle is firing properly.
Just body weight should be enough.

Can you explaion what you mean by the muscle not firing properly?

Normal barbell squats (performed correctly and below parallel) will illicit the same response with regard to the bio mechanics with a much better effect on strength which would therefore reduce the chance of a further injury. Have to be careful with them though in season.

 

[Gifter]

You're suggesting some one who is injured eats less protein, as in the fundemental building blocks which are used to repair an injured muscle??

My suggestion would be to do the star rehab protocol. Worked for me for both my hamstring tears and my thigh strain. I play football too.

Here's a link for it;

http://www.sugdenbarbell.co.uk/forum/bill-starr-rehab-protocol-for-muscle-injuries-5382

No, if you read the post you would see, that I am suggesting eating his protein earlier in the day, so by night it has been digested and hence is available to repair the tissue and not reducing the blood flow into tissue (as digestion has finished).

Protein is way over-rated IMO unless he is bulking, but that is not what the discussion is about.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

You're suggesting some one who is injured eats less protein, as in the fundemental building blocks which are used to repair an injured muscle??

My suggestion would be to do the star rehab protocol. Worked for me for both my hamstring tears and my thigh strain. I play football too.

Here's a link for it;

http://www.sugdenbarbell.co.uk/forum/bill-starr-rehab-protocol-for-muscle-injuries-5382

If you read it again, Gifter doesn't say eat less protein, just when to eat it.

As someone mentioned above, as it is both legs it does sound like a bi0-mechanics problem.

Possibly exasperated by the back log of games you had (cannot mange 3 games a week with the money you're on!) at the back end of last season, leading to over-use and/or repetitive strain injury. Did the pitches dry out during this time (ie rock hard?)

These type of injuries are tricky (and frustrating), if you cannot afford a scan (nhs will take too long for your needs) then you have to maybe strip things right back otherwise you could end up frustrated for the upcoming season.

You have had 8 weeks rest BUT you feel the problem is still there. Usually a specific injury will mend itself (esp a grade 1 tear) in this time, so your body is saying it is still not happy.

Look at your alignment, think of doing pilates to help with this and improve your core strength. (people with weak cores use their quads, hamstring etc a lot less efficiently)

Do regular stretching to remove any muscle tightness, combine with some massage and as you think you have had an injury look at myofascial release to smooth out those knots and get the connective tissue running smooth. A foam roller can be a good and cheap option to achieve this yourself.

The above will hopefully re-shape/align your body to cope with what you are asking it to do. It doesn't have to take up a lot of time, just another routine to get use to. Oh, and eat well.

Then start exercise in a controlled manner , as mentioned the pool is good, resistant bands and then light weights with lunges etc

It's a shame you've used up 8 weeks already as the new season will be upon us soon. Good luck

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

No, if you read the post you would see, that I am suggesting eating his protein earlier in the day, so by night it has been digested and hence is available to repair the tissue and not reducing the blood flow into tissue (as digestion has finished).

Protein is way over-rated IMO unless he is bulking, but that is not what the discussion is about.

Fair point. Back in my box I go! lol

 

[Skinhead in a Suit]

Thanks - that's really useful. Magnesium is a new one to me. I've been trying Arnica oil, based on a teammate's suggestion, but with no discernable benefit. Will definitely give this a try.

I've been taking Epsom salt baths (ie. magnesium) as a post-game habit for the past couple of years now and the difference in how I feel the next day is very noticeable.

 

[Gifter]

I've been taking Epsom salt baths (ie. magnesium) as a post-game habit for the past couple of years now and the difference in how I feel the next day is very noticeable.

Good stuff Skinhead, finishing on a cold shower (can be lukewarm) so the skin draws in enough oxygen via circulation to clear down the acids (so your skin is cool/cold) and you make it a cracker of a regime. But if your fit you may not need this as much.

 

[Gifter]

It's quite simple that magnesium relaxes your muscles (and the sulphate is much needed as well), this then enables a good nights sleep where the body can really go at repairing itself.

Calcium, D3 proper (not from a bottle usually), vitamin C (in lemon juice best) with bioflavinoids and buffered with sodium/calcium depending on biology if not from Lemon, K2 (MK7 for consumption, best via fermented foods IMO) are vital in the repair cycle, also omega 3 (dha, epa, ala), good quality (c9-t11) CLA source foods for cardiac health and anti-cancer capabilities and of course Sodium looking after extra cellular hydration, the mylein sheath etc. Iodine (best from Norwegian Kelp IMO).

Paying attention to your overall nutrition is key is all I'm sayin'.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Thanks everyone.

So I'm trying the magnesium as an immediate measure, and will definitely look into core strengthening for the longer-term. Tbh this has been a slight weakness since I was a teenager, so there is very likely something unbalanced somewhere - as football is the only sport I do now my whole upper body is probably very underdeveloped.

The more active rehab exercises like squats I'm a tad wary of, just because I'm not confident of being able to tell between rehab pain and re-injury and I'm a bit paranoid about another set back. I might wait and see if the magnesium gets rid of the tightness a bit first.

 

[Skinhead in a Suit]

Good stuff Skinhead, finishing on a cold shower (can be lukewarm) so the skin draws in enough oxygen via circulation to clear down the acids (so your skin is cool/cold) and you make it a cracker of a regime. But if your fit you may not need this as much.

I'll add this to my regimen, thanks Gifter. Training starts again next week and, since I'll be turning 40 later this year, I need all the help I can get these days.

On the issue of diet, I've been on a sort of "Caveman" diet recently (hereditary high cholesterol levels) where I'm not eating any processed foods (inc. cheese, white bread, regular pasta etc) and lots of fruits, grains, vegetables as well as organic meats and fishes. The gf is studying Chinese Medicine so she has all sorts of tips and info that we do (miso soup for breakfast, flax seed and prescribed chinese herbs) but do you have any other ideas that may help raise my HDL and lower LDLs?

 

[Gifter]

I'll add this to my regimen, thanks Gifter. Training starts again next week and, since I'll be turning 40 later this year, I need all the help I can get these days.

On the issue of diet, I've been on a sort of "Caveman" diet recently (hereditary high cholesterol levels) where I'm not eating any processed foods (inc. cheese, white bread, regular pasta etc) and lots of fruits, grains, vegetables as well as organic meats and fishes. The gf is studying Chinese Medicine so she has all sorts of tips and info that we do (miso soup for breakfast, flax seed and prescribed chinese herbs) but do you have any other ideas that may help raise my HDL and lower LDLs?

If the meat is of good quality LDL is also vital, it is the false enemy IMO. When you suffer from intracellular damage Calcium is called from bone using K2 in the liver to replace the potassium which is dislodged when damage occurs, then vit c is vital to heal the cellular/arterial damage (it releases hydrogen peroxide in a selectively cytotoxic manner, what a bad motherf*cker it is!) and LDL covers the damaged area to protect it (this is why LDL suppressants are dangerous and why statins cause heart failure whilst 'trying to stop' damage IMO). But, it should always be of good quality, I'm vegi but the wife gets grass fed organic steak etc which I cook her in Organic Ghee (as its cellular integrity is maintained at higher temperature), the fats are important to slow the release of energy in protein (unless your work is manual/physical, or train alot, give pepsin etc more time to strip and use), however when organic (better grass fed for alkaline mineral content and of course less pesticides etc) it offers 50% more Conjugated Linoleic Acid C9-T11 which is the active/vital element in protection from heart failure and cancer (so whilst being vegi I can appreciate it's nutritional quality, I also get alot of butter and milk raw, plus unpateurised brie/Camembert these are rich in K2 MK7 which is the long chain form of K2 so is much better assimilated and ensure your calcium channels/routing may work in good order). The HDL then comes in to clean up, when again K2 is vital to route the calcium back to bone, otherwise you will be left with calcified deposits which will become covered by LDL as is their affinity in the body if not of good quality. Is my understanding now, could be way off kilter and is of course missing lots of the totality of body situation etc.

I occassionally cook with olive oil but think it is not good, it's chemical structure breaks down below temperatures I always use, I love gently steamed vegetables with good organic butter (Ghee for me), butter steamed is good. Counter to modern thoughs, but hey, I'm a counter culture kinda guy!

organic cold pressed Flax with organic cottage cheese, or cultured buttermilk and the lignans from flax are a potent anti-cancer combination IMO (Budwig Protocol, but is just an age old folk remedy for sulphated proteins and good fats) because they provide enough of that usually missing from folks diet to get this 'injury-reaction to heal' process working again.

So I would say rather than try to cut down, focus on quality and you will have active in your system. Lecithin is a decent reducer though if you are high and need more immediacy, I have it in my kelp/molasses mix sometimes as a sweetener (but have stopped largely as we like the taste without it which is bizarre as it made us gag for quite some time!). Not sure how you would supplement it otherwise if I felt the need myself, maybe in the next few years I will and will tell you!

So maybe cut out any pork (or the next less good foods in your diet, maybe shellfish) and replace with some unpasteurised Brie, oily fish are good but the waters are so questionable so I like Lucy to get less HDL from Salmon etc (I hate the smell of others rich in it cooked so discourage that completely) and get more from fermented cod liver oil. In parallel to the Budwig diet my wife has Spring Grass Fed Butter Oil and the cod liver oil, to get a mix of fats rich in all the good elements we often lack - Weston Price enthused about these together in 'Nutrition and physical degeneration').

kombucha, sauerkraut and other fermented foods/drinks are excellent for probiotic and other excellent enablers/nutrients/healers.

That should be a good start to getting your LDL over towards the good side, and even if too much (10+ ratio to HDL) it will still produce a state of health in most bodies (IMO of course) as it will be better quality of LDL and consciously taking both together (milk and flax oil for me as a mainstay), as long as the overall is focused upon going forward (it's tough, I'm prone to blowouts, usually after eating well for a while, feeling dynamite, then a week later I've eaten like a dufus, full of bad fats, bastardised sugars and mangled proteins, plus enough starch to make a mucous bath which makes my sinuses/digestion cry!).

Being alkaline+ via food is the underpinning thing for me though. It is a tough thing to do, which is why we are largely prone to being unwell IMO.

 

[Gifter]

It's crudely about fighting viscosity with (or within) fats, it you eat alot of high temperature heated fats (before it even gets to you cooking with it), then they become much more difficult to digest (one atom different from plastic in many vegetable oils) and if assimilated to tissue as energy reserve mean when you go catatonic in sport or due to stress you release bad fats which the bodies really struggle to transit, this is why acid is a huge problem (and when people regret not making changes). The fats/acid issue is probably very central to Gutterboy's problem, if so he should try to get more alkaline, the ability to clear down and (re)grow.

 

[Gifter]

Reading about Lecithin, it is an excellent phospholipid emulsifier, so with raw milk mixed with flax you would give surface mass to the ALA/CLA etc which enables far greater absorption. It displaces certain bad fats, but should only be taken with good companions of foods/fluids as it enhances the uptake of fats present. IMO of course.