Leeds Spur
Banned
Warnock has how many promotions in his career? Until Harry was given an opportunity he has a worse record.
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OT: What next for Harry?
- Thread starter SUIYHA
- Start date
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Jol also didn't have to deal with cash inflated Emirates Marketing Project.
Agree to disagree.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
He gets teams promoted, then swiftly gets them relegated.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Football has changed. Getting in the top 4 is considered by many as better than winning a trophy, which Jol didn't do.
We were serial bottlers under Jol.
We still bottled it on occasions with Redknapp, but he sorted out our away record, got us wins at some grounds that we haven't won at since the stone age, he even turned us into a side with the best home defensive record in the league two seasons running! Whilst also playing great football.
How many times did we take the lead against the scum under Jol only to fall apart in the second half? That only happened once under Redknapp.
i wouldn't go as far as to say it was almost identical, Harry had a much better record for us against the top teams and we played some fantastic football this year - but he had a better side at his disposal and Jol was a dodgy lasagna away from finishing 4th himself - i think Jol get's harshly spoken of by a lot of fans to be honest
Leeds Spur
Banned
I just wanted to challenge this whole Harry is the 5th best manager chat. He ain't IMO.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
That is like saying we would have got 3rd this year if it wasn't for Fulop. People can't have it both ways. I'm not saying Jol wasn't incredibly unlucky, but we also shot ourselves in the foot on many occasions that season letting leads slip late in games. Hate to sound like a cliche but you finish where you deserve to finish.
serial bottlers - FA Cup Semi v Portsmouth, League Cup Final v a weakened Man U, losing 5-1 to Chelsea in this seasons Cup Semi, blowing a 11 point lead over 4th, our terrible finish to the season prior to last - Harry has had more than his fair share of bottling it as well
we did great under Redknapp, but to laugh off what Jol done with us (as in saying 'not close to Harry') is unfair - im not trying to detract from HR here, just saying that we done well under Jol as well and were it not for an unfortunate incident outside of his control we would have finished 4th that particular season - so it could have easily have been 4th/5th under Jol (with an inferior team) and quite an achievment IMO
i actually see a lot of parallels between the two managers records - ultimately though Jol had a disastrous start to his 3rd full season which ended him, where Redknapp hit his peak in his 3rd season.
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parklane1
Tony Galvin
Seems some just can not accept that he was sacked and are still carrying his candle.
i don't subscribe to that logic at all - you finish where you finish and that is what you are rated on - whether that is where you deserve to finish or not is another question, you only have to look at the tables which have come out this close season showing the poor refereeing mistakes and what they cost teams to see that logic, imv
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Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Defensively we were much improved under Redknapp.
Maybe I was harsh on Jol, but for me, getting always let you down Tottenham into the CL and then getting us to the quarter finals in the first attempt trumps everything.
As much as I criticise Levy, I actually think he was right to get rid of Jol even though he handled it terribly. We weren't going to get higher than 5th with him. With Redknapp, we actually threatened to get 3rd.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Like I said before, people could easily say we would have got 3rd if not for Martin Fulop so thats just the same as saying lasagna cost us 4th.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
Not sure he does really. More the opposite. Massively overrated. Being better than some very poor managers that went before him is confused with being a particularly good manager overall. Yes, Redknapp has a better squad but whilst the team moved on after Jol, so did the league too. Who of note did we actually finish above under Jol? Plenty of not very highly managers also finished top 6 with lesser squads and resources, over that period: Ipswich, Bolton, West Ham, Everton, Villa, Blackburn? Anyone fancy George Burley, Souness, Hughes, Allardyce, O'Neill? Even just a step down from that you have Reading under Steve Coppell, Sunderland under Peter Reid, Middlesbrough with Steve McClaren. All top 8 finishes. Sometimes twice. All these did some excellent work with far less resources than Jol at Spurs.
And I know what you're saying with the lasange stuff and yes he was unlucky but it is a bit an insult to the West Ham of that season to assume we would have won without that. Which is what 'a dodgy lasange away from CL' implies. In fact, the opposite is more the case. We hadn't won away all season against a team above West Ham in 9th. And we'd been playing better than we had compared with our run in performances. It was a big ask and we probably wouldn't have done it
you can only beat what is put in front of you, Harry Perkins - we finished below the teams better than us and above the teams we were better than under Jol - exactly the same as with Redknapp. (Chelsea were terrible this season in the league and it would have been a failure to finish below them in that form)
re Lasagna : we lost one nil away to West Ham with half our team having been up all night/morning throwing up - i think it's safe to say we would most likely had have won that game if we had a clean bill of health.
re Lasagna : we lost one nil away to West Ham with half our team having been up all night/morning throwing up - i think it's safe to say we would most likely had have won that game if we had a clean bill of health.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Jol wasn't a very poor manager and Redknapp's league finishes were good, the next manager is going to have to do very well to do as well as either of them.
mick cooper
Neil Sullivan
It seems that some can't accept that he's not here any more and can't stop slagging him off.
read through this thread, and count the negative comments versus the positive ones
as a quick reckoner - it would seem the anti Harry whiners are the ones who can't let go.
go figure.....
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
Yes, they were but at the same time a 'terrible' Chelsea and Liverpool, along with Saudi Sportswashing Machine in places 5th-8th in some world apart from the Jol era when it was the likes of Blackburn, Bolton and Everton. I'd take the latter over the 'terrible' Chelsea or Liverpool of this season any day! And then there is the fact that they are competing with more resources, even if they'd been used unwisely, and Redknapp still finished above them. That can't be said about Jol. We hammered our competitors in terms of spending and it can't be said that much of it wasn't spent wisely, for the first time in years. He did well, don't get me wrong. We overachieved by even challenging for 4th in his first full season but there was nothing spectacular outside of that and some truly woeful cup results. Redknapp had his fair share of those too but nothing quite as terrible as losing to league opposition twice and bottom tier opposition at that. And at the better end, we had the wins against Liverpool, Inter and AC Milan.
It was 1-2 and we just can't know. But we had failed to win away against lesser teams all season. Why would we away in a derby which they were obviously bang up for? If it was so easy to win that game then why couldn't we get results like that away during the rest of the season and avoid it even going down to the last day? At the very least you can't just assume we would have won.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
He wasn't but he wasn't all that either. All I ever really say on Jol is: a bit of perspective please! Based on the last few years, and had he not already been at Spurs, would he be a candidate for the job now? I think not! And do you really think the next manager is going to struggle for 5th? Something would have to go seriously wrong for that to happen. But even matching what Redknapp has done? No easy task.
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Inferior team ? Harry didnt have Berbatov and Keane (when he was good) up front and Jol also had Carrick - all 3 would walk into Harry's team, also a fitter Ledley King was good. Not to mention most of Harry's stars were only stars after he came to the club and got them playing.
Harry got us CL football with Crouch up front, not to mention relying on a bunch of free transfers to prop up the squad. I wouldnt say he had it much better than Jol at all. Emirates Marketing Project coming along and buying their way up into the mix also didnt help Harry. For me Jol was very good, Harry is better. Similar in a way, difficult to say if any manager could have got those players higher... although some would have equalled their finishes. I think HR could have got Jols team to 5th, not sure if Jol could have got Harrys team to 4th though (especially that first 4th place). Im not sure Jol would have built the solid squad Harry did.