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OT Wenger's comments on diving
- Thread starter BAE
- Start date
Superhudd
Simon Davies
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...iver-Ashley-Young-a-cheat-and-a-disgrace.html
In a scathing editorial, influential fanzine Red Issue pilloried Young, slamming him for ‘his latest disgraceful dive’ and adds ‘diving is cheating’ and says his behaviour is a betrayal of the code of conduct instilled at Old Trafford by legendary boss Matt Busby.
The editorial quotes Busby’s saying: “If anything is to be gained from football, it is to be gained by winning or losing with dignity.”
For good measure, the magazine also describes former United star and Sky pundit Gary Neville’s attempts to justify diving and other forms of cheating as ‘depressing’.
In a scathing editorial, influential fanzine Red Issue pilloried Young, slamming him for ‘his latest disgraceful dive’ and adds ‘diving is cheating’ and says his behaviour is a betrayal of the code of conduct instilled at Old Trafford by legendary boss Matt Busby.
The editorial quotes Busby’s saying: “If anything is to be gained from football, it is to be gained by winning or losing with dignity.”
For good measure, the magazine also describes former United star and Sky pundit Gary Neville’s attempts to justify diving and other forms of cheating as ‘depressing’.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
Lehmann
Eboue
Grimandi
Definately find that gif of Henry diving against (I think) Wigan, it's the worst dive i've ever seen, if anyone could find it it would be great to see it again to remind me of what a **** he is and how hypocritical that club is. Always moaning about Stoke when they're probably the dirtiest team to ever play Prem football, how many sendings off / bookings Arsene?
I can handle the scum being better than us, but the way they try to take the moral high ground on things when they're morals are in the gutter, RVP proved it again this week and the fans just lap up every thing Arsene says like it's the truth ! Massively DELUDED football club.
Worst ever was Pires against Portsmouth - can't find the video but it was beyond awful.
superspurs
Justin Edinburgh
When he purposely placed his foot and tripped himself ?
Bloke was a grade-a **** who ALWAYS played a blinder against us.
Robbo
Paul Walsh
The one where he rolled "injured" off the pitch - then rolled back onto the pitch again, because he realised the game wouldn't be stopped? Or was that the **** of a human being Reyes?
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
You cant dish out a three match ban for that though. Yes he dived but you a) cannot say that with 100% certainty and b) cant deny that Young did get clipped.
Also players jump over tackles etc to prevent themselves from getting hurt, a bit like a horse jumping over a hurdle. What are we gonna do then? dish out three match bans?
You can't ban it because everyone is looking for a pen so there's always a grey area.
If the rule is to do all you can to stay on your feet then there's no longer a grey area. By retrospectively punishing dives you no longer have that grey area where referees need to make a judgement call.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
Yea that was Reyes, can't believe I forgot him off my list ! Tbh there's loads all the way thru that club, I reckon the "wonder kids" who play a few Carling cup games then get sold to lower league teams and European backwaters dived as well, but they're so insignificant / brick we just don't remember.
I can only really think of Zokora and now Bale who go down easy for Spurs, maybe Freund made a meal of things as well. But on the whole I don't think there's that same culture at Spurs.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
But if doing all you can to stay on your feet means risking getting hurt then I dont think that is also fair.
Gary Neville showed a clip a couple of weeks back of a Swansea player being held back by Gallas - it was a clear penalty BUT because the Swansea guy stayed on his feet the referee didnt give the penalty. Now you can argue that the referee is incompetent and should give a penalty regardless of whether the player went down or not but I am pretty sure if the Swansea player "dived" he would have got the penalty. I think thats why players do it in addition to protecting themselves.
Again, I think that's confusing the cause with the syptom.
Referees only give penalties when a player ends up on the floor because almost every player ends up on the floor with even minimal contact. Take that 'diving' or 'making the most of it' out of the equation and it allows referees to make a far more accurate judgement on individual situations.
Klinsmania
Bobby Zamora
I agree that there should be retrospective bans for divers, as there should be for persistent play actors. Drogba is bar far the biggest culprit, pretending to be injured when he's not. At one point on Wednesday he stamped on Busquets' foot and then threw himself to the floor making out like he was the one who had been fouled. Later on, someone brushed his shin, and he went down holding his face. It is cheating, pure and simple. He tries to convince the ref he has been fouled to get opponents sent off, and that's just as bad as diving. If simulation is supposed to be a bookable offence then he was lucky not to get sent off about 5 times. He's a disgrace.
Regarding being hurt, I think it's fairly easy to distinguish between avoiding injury and tryin to win a free kick/penalty. Again, referees need training in what constitutes an unfair advantage to a defender.
If a player has to get out of the way of a clearly unfair tackle then it's not a dive - I've never understood why these aren't given when there isn't contact. If I swing a punch at an opponent on a football pitch and miss, contact is irrelevant - I still get sent off. Fouls should be the same - contact doesn't have to happen for the foul to exist.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
That's exactly how I feel about alot of the Barca players!
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Neville's comments on Sky's MNF about Young's antics were disgraceful. He couldn't bring himself to condemn the dives and could barely get the word 'dive' out of his mouth. He then went on to say if we punished divers/cheaters the game would descend into complete anarchy, which is complete bollox of course. I used to think he was a dingdonghead, but then sort of changed my mind as I thought his punditry was good but I was right the first time.
Garry Neville's analysis of diving: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq65vw_gary-neville-tells-it-like-it-is-on-diving_sport
I don't like Neville, but you have to respect his analysis of the game. Whatever your stance on the issues he discusses, it is a much more difficult balancing act than most people acknowledge.
In my view, discouraging players from going to ground with the threat of a retrospective ban is going to result in broken legs. I know Bale has hurdled a few legbreakers this season and then been accused of diving (for example, at Liverpool away).
I don't like Neville, but you have to respect his analysis of the game. Whatever your stance on the issues he discusses, it is a much more difficult balancing act than most people acknowledge.
In my view, discouraging players from going to ground with the threat of a retrospective ban is going to result in broken legs. I know Bale has hurdled a few legbreakers this season and then been accused of diving (for example, at Liverpool away).
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
You actually can. He ran into the defender's leg. Other angles prove the defender left his leg in the same position, he did not move it, and Young took advantage and deliberatly ran into it. I hate all this "Young should be careful cos he'll get a reputation for diving" crap, he's been a cheating **** for years! He was diving when he was at Villa.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
I think then it is the referees that are the problem. They encourage diving by only giving penalties for players on the floor rather than someone standing his ground and trying to stay on his feet (ala Swansea player). Then again your argument that players force referees to make difficult decisions (a decision as to whether a player dives or not cannot be given with 100% certainty)
Referees need to be given training additional training and players need to be told what constitutes a dive and what doesnt and what is a foula nd what isnt and what a penalty will be given for and against.
Maybe this retrospective thing could be done for a season to see how it works out.
yiddo2786
Steed Malbranque
In my opinion, that's on a par with going to ground at the slightest of contact in the middle of the park or appealing to the referee for a decision you know shouldn't go your way.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
I havent seen in in an indepth manner like some on here so cant tell you for the life of me how it happened. He looked like he dived I just couldnt say with certainty.
I just think it will be like playing with fire - there will be arguments galore, so many appeals etc etc etc