K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Play till next goal wins. old fashion street football
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OT - help with ideas for Youth Coaching - PENALTIES
- Thread starter swellsy
- Start date
swellsy
Kevin Scott
Firstly thank you all for your feedback....
for your information i am talking from Under 8's to Under 16's for this so it is possible to have different ideas for different age groups. Another issue that I perhaps didn't mention is that there is always a time limit to do these things, usually 5 minutes at MOST
Still don't think anyone has come up with the ideal solution but some good ideas. My view on your replies and then if you have the time if you can think some more that would be great
Captains fight to the death?
Erm, not sure on this one :|
winner is team with most shots on target in the 3 v 3
Would simply encourage teams to shoot from all distances including stupid ones and a stupid angles and simply not football related
3 v 3 - no kick off, ball is thrown in from side line by the ref (both team starting position is on the edge of their "18 yard box") or just a good old fashioned drop ball
not a bad idea, but having children running towards a ball from their area is a recipe for a mid pitch collision and injurys, Drop ball is good though.
10 mins time limit (or however long you can have) - winner is first team to score. if no score, winner is team with most shots on target in the 3 v 3
that's basically how it now works anyway with the current trend for 3 v 3, first goal the winner but going down to 1 v 1. Have mentioned my dislike for most shots on target above
Say there's 10 mins extra time. The team that can keep the ball in the opponent's half for the longest period is the winner. Only way to really achieve this is to keep passing meaning all players take some responsibility.
Quite like this idea
Two words - Crossbar challenge!
Not football related and at the younger age groups we would be their all day
Children have to learn, sport is a lesson in life.
All of the scenarios you describe, whilst true - also teach children positive things, how to take responsibility, how to accept defeat - as well as how to use a defeat as part of a learning experience (what do we have to do to prevent this from happening again?) As a society we have to stop protecting our children from learning harsh lessons, and what better way than in a benign environment like sport? Sport is war without pain or real loss (its just a game) sport is life without the genuine consequences of failure, nobody dies, no-one is poorer at the end, no-one loses a love. I dont want to come across as the competitive dad from the fast show, but kids need to learn harsh realities of life - and the bitter sting of tears is often a fantastic motivator to succeed next time.
You don't come across as a competitive dad but perhaps don't fully understand my objectives. As you mentioned football is a hard lesson in life anyway, war without pain or loss, I like it
, I am not trying to protect children from learning some harsh lessons, Children can already experience joy, excitement, disappointment, loss, failure and all lifes harsh lessons from football WITHOUT the further, and in my opinion, unnecessary procedure of THEN singling out one child to learn an even harder lesson, on their own, that there really is no need to go through and that i fail to see positives coming from it. Ie missing a penalty and feeling solely to blame
Don't jump straight to 3 on 3. Take one off every minute, plus one for every foul. When they get down to 3 minutes left, put another ball on the pitch. First goal wins.
not bad
why do you need a winner? can both teams settle as joint champions?
Quarter finals, semi finals need a winner, and no-one wants to come out of a tournament sharing, that is protecting children too much
otherwise if you really have to, you can pick the "cleaner" team with less fouls for the winner if possible - definitely a lesson there somewhere. or the one that scores first, to reward attacking play.
Surprisingly, not a great amount of fouls in youth football, especially when games are 12-15 minutes and at the younger level.
I think that whilst they can be heartbreaking to be involved in when you lose, they are amazing when you win. They are essentially reflection on football in general to be honest in the sense of it being about fine lines. I don't think there is a better way to settle a match currently and whilst it isnt nice for a youngster to miss a penalty......well thats life. It is a skill in itself to take a penalty under pressure and there is nothing wrong with youngsters stepping up to the plate and possibly missing.
You heartless git. My point is that is doesn't HAVE to be a case of '"well, thats life" get on with it. I have seen children quit football because of missing a penalty or simply refuse to actually take one ever again. These things care truly scar a kid
You cant take away penalties, its one thing thinking of the childrens feelings, but a large part of football is responsibility. If they dont learn it at a young age, they'll never learn.
But its a team responsibilty, not an individuals
i always think that penalties (especially shoot-outs) should be decided tactically by the manager. ie, he says: Pen 1 = bottom left. Pen 2 = central, low. Pen 3 = bottom right.
Problem here is, If I tell a child to hit it bottom left, and he hits it wide......same scenerio. He will feel responsible for the miss
Managers should take the penalties, One manager in goal, the other taking.
the game if for the children and should be decided by the children as much as possible.
Take the penalties from the edge of the D outside the 18 yard box, so about 23? yards out, Then it won't be the one who misses that loses the game... it will be the bugger that finally scores that wins the game = hero not villain
Not bad but potential to go on forever espeically the younger age groups and you still MIGHT end up with one kid missing
how about a point system that would mean a certain number of fouls by the ENTIRE team inside the penalty area would then result in 1 penalty. that way the whole team can share the responsibility and teach them that the fouls would result into a penalty. that way they may probably be a lot more squeamish fouling in the box at the penultimate foul?
What ??:-s
Have the penalty shootout before the match.
Initially liked this idea but then realised that the team that won the penalties before the match could take to the field and play very negatively knowing a draw would see them through
Go the Barca policy.. do away with competative games althogether if you feel that strongly.
I don't feel THAT strongly
Play till next goal wins. old fashion street football
Time issues
Thanks for all the above and so far my favourite so far is the possession game in the opponents half or simply who keeps the ball longest. The only real issue here is how to start it so it is fair.
for your information i am talking from Under 8's to Under 16's for this so it is possible to have different ideas for different age groups. Another issue that I perhaps didn't mention is that there is always a time limit to do these things, usually 5 minutes at MOST
Still don't think anyone has come up with the ideal solution but some good ideas. My view on your replies and then if you have the time if you can think some more that would be great
Captains fight to the death?
Erm, not sure on this one :|
winner is team with most shots on target in the 3 v 3
Would simply encourage teams to shoot from all distances including stupid ones and a stupid angles and simply not football related
3 v 3 - no kick off, ball is thrown in from side line by the ref (both team starting position is on the edge of their "18 yard box") or just a good old fashioned drop ball
not a bad idea, but having children running towards a ball from their area is a recipe for a mid pitch collision and injurys, Drop ball is good though.
10 mins time limit (or however long you can have) - winner is first team to score. if no score, winner is team with most shots on target in the 3 v 3
that's basically how it now works anyway with the current trend for 3 v 3, first goal the winner but going down to 1 v 1. Have mentioned my dislike for most shots on target above
Say there's 10 mins extra time. The team that can keep the ball in the opponent's half for the longest period is the winner. Only way to really achieve this is to keep passing meaning all players take some responsibility.
Quite like this idea
Two words - Crossbar challenge!
Not football related and at the younger age groups we would be their all day
Children have to learn, sport is a lesson in life.
All of the scenarios you describe, whilst true - also teach children positive things, how to take responsibility, how to accept defeat - as well as how to use a defeat as part of a learning experience (what do we have to do to prevent this from happening again?) As a society we have to stop protecting our children from learning harsh lessons, and what better way than in a benign environment like sport? Sport is war without pain or real loss (its just a game) sport is life without the genuine consequences of failure, nobody dies, no-one is poorer at the end, no-one loses a love. I dont want to come across as the competitive dad from the fast show, but kids need to learn harsh realities of life - and the bitter sting of tears is often a fantastic motivator to succeed next time.
You don't come across as a competitive dad but perhaps don't fully understand my objectives. As you mentioned football is a hard lesson in life anyway, war without pain or loss, I like it
, I am not trying to protect children from learning some harsh lessons, Children can already experience joy, excitement, disappointment, loss, failure and all lifes harsh lessons from football WITHOUT the further, and in my opinion, unnecessary procedure of THEN singling out one child to learn an even harder lesson, on their own, that there really is no need to go through and that i fail to see positives coming from it. Ie missing a penalty and feeling solely to blameDon't jump straight to 3 on 3. Take one off every minute, plus one for every foul. When they get down to 3 minutes left, put another ball on the pitch. First goal wins.
not bad
why do you need a winner? can both teams settle as joint champions?
Quarter finals, semi finals need a winner, and no-one wants to come out of a tournament sharing, that is protecting children too much
otherwise if you really have to, you can pick the "cleaner" team with less fouls for the winner if possible - definitely a lesson there somewhere. or the one that scores first, to reward attacking play.
Surprisingly, not a great amount of fouls in youth football, especially when games are 12-15 minutes and at the younger level.
I think that whilst they can be heartbreaking to be involved in when you lose, they are amazing when you win. They are essentially reflection on football in general to be honest in the sense of it being about fine lines. I don't think there is a better way to settle a match currently and whilst it isnt nice for a youngster to miss a penalty......well thats life. It is a skill in itself to take a penalty under pressure and there is nothing wrong with youngsters stepping up to the plate and possibly missing.
You heartless git. My point is that is doesn't HAVE to be a case of '"well, thats life" get on with it. I have seen children quit football because of missing a penalty or simply refuse to actually take one ever again. These things care truly scar a kid
You cant take away penalties, its one thing thinking of the childrens feelings, but a large part of football is responsibility. If they dont learn it at a young age, they'll never learn.
But its a team responsibilty, not an individuals
i always think that penalties (especially shoot-outs) should be decided tactically by the manager. ie, he says: Pen 1 = bottom left. Pen 2 = central, low. Pen 3 = bottom right.
Problem here is, If I tell a child to hit it bottom left, and he hits it wide......same scenerio. He will feel responsible for the miss
Managers should take the penalties, One manager in goal, the other taking.
the game if for the children and should be decided by the children as much as possible.
Take the penalties from the edge of the D outside the 18 yard box, so about 23? yards out, Then it won't be the one who misses that loses the game... it will be the bugger that finally scores that wins the game = hero not villain
Not bad but potential to go on forever espeically the younger age groups and you still MIGHT end up with one kid missing
how about a point system that would mean a certain number of fouls by the ENTIRE team inside the penalty area would then result in 1 penalty. that way the whole team can share the responsibility and teach them that the fouls would result into a penalty. that way they may probably be a lot more squeamish fouling in the box at the penultimate foul?
What ??:-s
Have the penalty shootout before the match.
Initially liked this idea but then realised that the team that won the penalties before the match could take to the field and play very negatively knowing a draw would see them through
Go the Barca policy.. do away with competative games althogether if you feel that strongly.
I don't feel THAT strongly
Play till next goal wins. old fashion street football
Time issues
Thanks for all the above and so far my favourite so far is the possession game in the opponents half or simply who keeps the ball longest. The only real issue here is how to start it so it is fair.
Last edited:
WookieD
Didier Zokora
Tell them to suck it up and get on with it. Dissapointment is a fact. It's a life lesson and it is a good opportunity for kids to learn how to be more supportive of one another in a negative situation, instead of aportion blame.
I'd say the best thing to do is have MORE penalties. Until the FA and FIFA remove them, they are a fact. Have more mini-comps that end in penalties, so that when a bigger match ends in penalties, they are already used to the bitter sweat pill that lady luck prescribes life's runner's up.
I'd say the best thing to do is have MORE penalties. Until the FA and FIFA remove them, they are a fact. Have more mini-comps that end in penalties, so that when a bigger match ends in penalties, they are already used to the bitter sweat pill that lady luck prescribes life's runner's up.
swellsy
Kevin Scott
er,....thanks
Maybe there are other threads you can contribute to instead of this one with what little time you have to post :-"
WookieD
Didier Zokora
er,....thanks
Maybe there are other threads you can contribute to instead of this one with what little time you have to post :-"
Hey, I'm just trying to help the little lambs grow into men
mick cooper
Neil Sullivan
Hey, I'm just trying to help the little lambs grow into men
let them spend a little time in a Turkish prison, and watch films about gladiators..........
Have you ever seen a grown man naked?
rxl
Øyvind Leonhardsen
OK I think this would work - scrap extra time and instead play Golden goal, but every 5 mins (timed by 4th official) each team has to make a withdrawal; Manager's discretion (so it's tactical).
Each withdrawn player has to leave the playing area as quickly as possible.
Now this may mean the game goes on for an unlimited time in theory but in practice players would tire and gaps would appear - in more ways than one.
It could end up with GK one on ones after 50 mins!
I think this would be much more entertaining and put tactical emphasis on the coaches to counteract/expose the oppositions previous withdrawal. Entertaining for the crowd to see who's number goes up.
This idea is copyright rxl 2012!!! - may or may not be true...
Each withdrawn player has to leave the playing area as quickly as possible.
Now this may mean the game goes on for an unlimited time in theory but in practice players would tire and gaps would appear - in more ways than one.
It could end up with GK one on ones after 50 mins!
I think this would be much more entertaining and put tactical emphasis on the coaches to counteract/expose the oppositions previous withdrawal. Entertaining for the crowd to see who's number goes up.
This idea is copyright rxl 2012!!! - may or may not be true...
rxl
Øyvind Leonhardsen
Holy Sh*t someone as crazy/genius as me. Great minds etc etc
Shropshire Yid
Hossam Ghaly
Sorry to the OP but this is the reason why we are getting softer as a nation!
Its the same reason in youth football where you enter a tournament and EVERY SINGLE PLAYER win lose or draw ends up with some sort of Trophy!
Its gonads, to produce winners you need to get hungry to win and to be hungry to win you need to taste defeat and heartbreak to make sure you never feel that again. To make sure it doesnt happen again, you should train harder, spend extra time practicing and making sure in your next game your better than your last!
If im luck enough to have a son, If he misses a penalty, i will give him his space to get over it, encourage him, and then we will go and practice his technique and focus ready for the next one.
So Sorry, I disagree with your post. (not saying your wrong of course, just my view)
Its the same reason in youth football where you enter a tournament and EVERY SINGLE PLAYER win lose or draw ends up with some sort of Trophy!
Its gonads, to produce winners you need to get hungry to win and to be hungry to win you need to taste defeat and heartbreak to make sure you never feel that again. To make sure it doesnt happen again, you should train harder, spend extra time practicing and making sure in your next game your better than your last!
If im luck enough to have a son, If he misses a penalty, i will give him his space to get over it, encourage him, and then we will go and practice his technique and focus ready for the next one.
So Sorry, I disagree with your post. (not saying your wrong of course, just my view)
yiddo2786
Steed Malbranque
Who decides which player is removed every 2 minutes? The only fair way to decide is the manager choosing, so that's probably gonna cause some upset between them; as the manager would essentially be ranking his players from worst to best.
I think the penalty shoot out is the best way. As Mick and Wookie said, it's a good way to teach them to deal with pressure and disappointment. There's no point pretending to them that these types of situations don't exist by trying to remove them.
I think the penalty shoot out is the best way. As Mick and Wookie said, it's a good way to teach them to deal with pressure and disappointment. There's no point pretending to them that these types of situations don't exist by trying to remove them.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
thats a good point, same as if your the batsman who gets caught out, if you distil the game enough every goal is the result of an individuals mistake somewhere, be it a missed tackle or poor control
WookieD
Didier Zokora
In all seriousness, I don't see the problem in penalties. As long as your team mates aren't complete twunts and make you shoulder the blame, then the dissapointment with yourself surely isn't any worse than losing an individual sporting competition. We are, by nature, competitive. Which means there are always losers. At least if you make it to pens, it means you've probably beaten a lot of people on the way.
I actually think individual, club led sports lead to more dissapointment. I'd hate to be a kid at a martial arts club, atheltics or cycling club that is the only one to come back from an event without a medal, that really IS isolating as at no point is the team partly responsible.
Should we do away with gold, silver, bronze in youth sports and just award one medal and give everyone else a pat on the back?.. Hold on, sounds suspiciously similar to what some hippy led schools do nowadays, actually!
I'd honestly just look at the way in which the kids behave with one another if a penalty is missed.
I actually think individual, club led sports lead to more dissapointment. I'd hate to be a kid at a martial arts club, atheltics or cycling club that is the only one to come back from an event without a medal, that really IS isolating as at no point is the team partly responsible.
Should we do away with gold, silver, bronze in youth sports and just award one medal and give everyone else a pat on the back?.. Hold on, sounds suspiciously similar to what some hippy led schools do nowadays, actually!
I'd honestly just look at the way in which the kids behave with one another if a penalty is missed.
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
@swellsy. its kind of like an american basketball system. you get 5 fouls total for you team allowed..every fould after that is a set of 'free throws' (uncontested shots close to the rim)
in your case a kid fouls in the area, the freekick is taken outside the area or an indirect one inside the area (which ever you prefer) ...but say 3 fouls in the area will eventually result in a penalty shot being taken, either during the game or at the end of the game.
along those lines
in your case a kid fouls in the area, the freekick is taken outside the area or an indirect one inside the area (which ever you prefer) ...but say 3 fouls in the area will eventually result in a penalty shot being taken, either during the game or at the end of the game.
along those lines
rxl
Øyvind Leonhardsen
Read my post below GaleForce's original - I think we're both singing off of the same hymn sheet.
The manager wouldn't be ranking his team worst to best (even if he was where's the harm - Ronaldo-Messi one on one would be a giggle) anyway I digress, the point is the withdrawals would be a mix anticipation of your opponents move and retrospective action on their previous move.
Managers should be made to earn their corn as well - at least you would still win/lose as a team instead of having the literal sole blame of a loss on one guys composure/misfortune from 12 yards.
swellsy
Kevin Scott
Gale force / rxl
Basically what you have both said is already being done. Normal time finishes. 3 v 3 golden goal, with the reasoning being that the extra space should ensure that a goal is scored quickly. As mentioned though 3 v 3 becomes 3 v 2 and not really fair for the team that gets the balls (unless rules where changes to basketball style starts or drop balls), also the current trend is to take off one player from the 3 (yes the manager decides) until it gets down to 1 v 1 and then the problem is you once again has a situation whereby one player (the last on the pitch) can feel solely responsible for a teams loss.
therefore no better than my issue with penalties.
as for this
Who decides which player is removed every 2 minutes? The only fair way to decide is the manager choosing, so that's probably gonna cause some upset between them; as the manager would essentially be ranking his players from worst to best.
no issue with this at all.... you basically do this anyway when choosing the starting team etc and making subs anyway
Basically what you have both said is already being done. Normal time finishes. 3 v 3 golden goal, with the reasoning being that the extra space should ensure that a goal is scored quickly. As mentioned though 3 v 3 becomes 3 v 2 and not really fair for the team that gets the balls (unless rules where changes to basketball style starts or drop balls), also the current trend is to take off one player from the 3 (yes the manager decides) until it gets down to 1 v 1 and then the problem is you once again has a situation whereby one player (the last on the pitch) can feel solely responsible for a teams loss.
therefore no better than my issue with penalties.
as for this
Who decides which player is removed every 2 minutes? The only fair way to decide is the manager choosing, so that's probably gonna cause some upset between them; as the manager would essentially be ranking his players from worst to best.
no issue with this at all.... you basically do this anyway when choosing the starting team etc and making subs anyway
swellsy
Kevin Scott
ok, but that just seems to be rule changes for the game rather than a means to end a tournament game that ends in a draw