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****OMT - TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs WOOLWICH ARSEnal****

I understand we have injuries, which is why I'm not fearful of our future under Tim based on this game. But I am curious as to why most people are just shrugging this game off while others where we've been much better in have taken the rage of the fans.

Not really bothered about losing this one, but I really hope our coaches learn from the mistakes that were made. For me, it's better to have had this happen in a cup game and now we have a whole week on the training pitch for the first time this season.
 
Don't let facts get in the way:

- Eriksen 1-1 with their keeper. Point blank shot saved could have gone anywhere.
- Ade great turn and movement, just doesn't catch the ball fully as its at the wrong height. Still gets shot on target.
- Soldado has a free shot form the edge of the box he drags wide under pressure from flying defender. A confident player might have dragged the ball onto their left foot avoiding the defender and had more time to shoot.

- Countless set pieces
- Countless crosses
- Decent passing and build up play

..against the meanest defense in the top flight.

The biggest difference is they look a well drilled team. And so they should with a settled team and manager. We have to think and look too much, where they can play and know where their 'mates will be.

Sorry mate but if I had listed 'countless crosses, countless set pieces and decent passes' as reasons to be cheerful when AVB was manager, I would have been slaughtered for it 100%.

We had the Eriksen chance, absolutely. We had Ade's chance, which was a difficult skill to pull off and unsurprisingly he didn't do it. Soldado's shot from the edge of the area? Are we counting these as decent chances that prove we didn't look like a mid-table side today? Time was, shots from outside of the area were the worst possible form of chance creation on here..
 
Eriksen could have buried that chance, but as I said in my original post we were relying on lucky ricochets. If that was our best chance and we got it from the ball taking a lucky bounce off the Arsenal defender then I wouldn't have been confident we would see out the game had that gone in.

We could have scored because Eriksen harried there defender went through one on one...

They scored because Rosicky harried Rose won the ball went through one on one and scored....

Please dont go on about ricochets...... the above proves that the game is defined on small margins.

The build up to the Ade chance was a decent bit of play......

Your posts make it sound like we were a pub team..... but I have given you examples of why and how the game should have gone in our favour......

We were in this game.....even at 1-0 down we had a chance.....

Difference is Arsenal didnt shoot themselves in the foot unlike us and they took their chances.....unlike us.
 
Are you seriously suggesting that Manu's many great successes over the years under Ferguson were due them moaning and fouling? If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. In fact most are, and what you describe is what happens up and down the country in all football grounds.

A complete and absolute commitment to winning, which is maybe what you are getting at, starts with playing successful football.

Man U succeeded because coming out second best from a 50:50 challenge was absolutely shameful to them. Letting an opponent foul one of your players without getting your own back on said opponent was unacceptable to them. Looking away and walking away when someone stamps on your team-mate's head (as Modric did when Balotelli slyly stepped on Parker two years ago) would have been unthinkable to them. Trudging backwards, resignedly accepting a yellow card as it is shoved in your face by a strutting referee would have been outrageous to them. Walking down the tunnel crying man-tears after losing 6-0 and then saying 'Oh, we're so very sorry' on the official website two days later would have been frankly inconceivable to them. Gaining absolutely no motivation from one of the opposition players in a big derby game gleefully signalling '2-0' as he is stretchered off would have been shocking to them. Letting the referee get away with a contentious call without having five players running at him snarling and yelling while the manager went purple with rage and the crowd roared their anger would have been detestable to them.

A desire to never, ever lose even a single 50:50, a desire to stand up for your team-mates in every circumstance, a desire to hound and pressure and scare the referee into believing that there would be an almighty ****-storm coming his way should he dare to penalise one of your lads, a desire to leave your mark on the opposition, a desire to achieve the three points by any means necessary, a desire to never be put in a situation where the media laughs at you, the fans are ashamed of you, the manager is sacked because of you, and all you can do is apologize.........these are the things that got United winning.

Sure, you can simplify that by calling it a 'complete and absolute commitment to winning', but it goes far deeper than that. It is, consciously or otherwise, an all-consuming desire to be a part of a team that strikes fear into everyone they face, and to make absolutely sure that anyone who harms you either as an individual or as a team, be it the referee or the opposition, never, ever escapes unscathed. I'm not sure what you'd call that, but that is what made United win. You could see it: raw passion.

Today, Arsenal derived motivation from facing us, a rival who they quite clearly will do anything to beat. We,by contrast, derived little extra motivation from facing them that we did not already have when facing any other side. They wanted it more. We arguably didn't. And we paid the price. That needs to change, and starting by hounding the referee (something we've been historically reluctant to do) would be a decent way to instill that 'us against them' mentality within the lads.
 
We could have scored because Eriksen harried there defender went through one on one...

They scored because Rosicky harried Rose won the ball went through one on one and scored....

Please dont go on about ricochets...... the above proves that the game is defined on small margins.

The build up to the Ade chance was a decent bit of play......

Your posts make it sound like we were a pub team..... but I have given you examples of why and how the game should have gone in our favour......

We were in this game.....even at 1-0 down we had a chance.....

Difference is Arsenal didnt shoot themselves in the foot unlike us and they took their chances.....unlike us.

I don't think we were a pub team, I do think we looked mid-table and Arsenal looked a class apart.

And again, I find it tough to hear 'we were in the game, it could have gone our way' when I've said the same thing about loads of performances under the previous manager and have been told they are turgid. Only today, because it looked like we were 'having a go' it is getting brushed off, despite the fact that we were rubbish.

There's no right or wrong approach. We can look rubbish trying to control the game (e.g. Hull at home) and we can look great playing a high tempo (Stoke at home, and actually at Old Trafford on NYD I was really impressed with our ability on the counter). But today, we tried something, it didn't work and we looked rubbish. If I was trying to defend the manager 2 months ago with the chances we created today I would have been laughed out of the forum.
 
..and ironically that gif is about having dignity - having the class to go and applaud the away fans after a game. As a German player they are brought up in a different footballing culture where fans rather than money count. That's not to say that German football is lacking is it? That's not to say that German teams lack bite?

I'd say the opposite: it's about having the desire to apologise to the fans for a bad performance, the desire to go up to them and say 'you are a part of the only circle that counts to us, and we will make it up to you.' It's about an us-vs-them mentality, the club versus the world, and it's about holding everyone, even your galactico team-mates, to the highest standards possible and making sure they know that they have to adhere to said standards, even if the cameras are rolling and it makes you look 'undignified'.

If we'd lost 6-0 to City with Bale in the side, do you think Daws would go up to him and yell at him to go apologise to the away fans? Mertesacker felt the need to have everyone apologise for a performance that fell below their exacting standards, no matter their price tag and reputation: I find it highly unlikely that we would do the same with our galactico.
 
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BOL does have a point; be honest if that performance had happened under AVB many wold have given him and the team a hell of a lot of pelters for it.

I dare anyone (especially those who hated most of AVB's tenure) to claim otherwise
 
I understand we have injuries, which is why I'm not fearful of our future under Tim based on this game. But I am curious as to why most people are just shrugging this game off while others where we've been much better in have taken the rage of the fans.
More care about the league then the fa cup...there's no ulterior motive regarding AVB .
 
BOL does have a point; be honest if that performance had happened under AVB many wold have given him and the team a hell of a lot of pelters for it.

I dare anyone (especially those who hated most of AVB's tenure) to claim otherwise

fa cup vs league ......we also created more chances in this game. People like seeing us creating chances and will sometime ignore other aspects of the game.
 
BOL does have a point; be honest if that performance had happened under AVB many wold have given him and the team a hell of a lot of pelters for it.

I dare anyone (especially those who hated most of AVB's tenure) to claim otherwise

I think so, there's a lot of stats being thrown around in defence of today's performance whereas anyone using stats to defend AVB got a bit of stick
 
Why the hell wold we now care more about the league than the FA Cup?? Are we not Spurs (cup Kings, League bottlers) anymore??

I think it's more that it's not "The FA Cup" anymore

I'm pretty annoyed we lost, but I'd be far angrier if it was a league game.
 
I thought it was a simlar performance to the one we gave under AVB earlier in the season -- a lot of sideways passing, not enough crosses into the box.

This time, we tried to play more on the break and it almost worked a couple of times in the first half.

In the end, we had a few chances (Eriksen in the 1st half, Adebayor mis-kick in the 2nd) and we needed to be ruthless against a team like them. Instead, Eriksen and Lennon were rubbish on the ball each time they got into a good area. Adebayor wasn't a lot better...but those 3 have been our best players lately, so there we go.

An average performance, but we still at least had a few chances to score, and we don't have to play these w*nkers every week on their own ground. I fancy us to beat them at WHL. And I fancy us to continue our good league form v Palace next week.
 
I don't think we were a pub team, I do think we looked mid-table and Arsenal looked a class apart.

And again, I find it tough to hear 'we were in the game, it could have gone our way' when I've said the same thing about loads of performances under the previous manager and have been told they are turgid. Only today, because it looked like we were 'having a go' it is getting brushed off, despite the fact that we were rubbish.

There's no right or wrong approach. We can look rubbish trying to control the game (e.g. Hull at home) and we can look great playing a high tempo (Stoke at home, and actually at Old Trafford on NYD I was really impressed with our ability on the counter). But today, we tried something, it didn't work and we looked rubbish. If I was trying to defend the manager 2 months ago with the chances we created today I would have been laughed out of the forum.

Lets not go down the AVB road....

My issue was you said we never looked threatening.......I think I have given you examples that wasnt the case.

You may find it tough to hear but if Eriksen scores the game could be completely different..... thats a fact....the whole team would have gotten a lift.....This was a game where we COULD have been in the ascendancy and picked them off with counters......but that wasnt the case unfortunately...

I think its easy to read too much into this game......what interests me is what timmy does when he has Most(cause were never going to get all) of the players available....

what he asks our better players to do.....

You cant say 'dont go ott after the stoke result' and then say we look mid-table after this...

We need more games and more of our squad available to assess timmy.
 
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