OMT ***Tottenham Hotspur vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine***

[DeanoAustin]

Exactly my point. He's good enough for a side chasing top four, but he loses his head far too easily to be of use at the highest end of the table. It's harsh....


...but we *need* harsh. Send him off, get someone better, do a show-and-tell with the squad explaining why it happened, and warn them that their places too will be up for grabs if they don't up their game and take winning seriously.

Pour encourager les autres.

You can't manage like that. You'll have mutiny on your hands after trying it a few times.

 

[DubaiSpur]

You can't manage like that. You'll have mutiny on your hands after trying it a few times.

Hasn't done his idol any harm over the years.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Hasn't done his idol any harm over the years.

Fergie rarely knifed people for the sake of it. He did it if they were well past their best or if they got too big for their boots and affected morale. Walker has done neither.

He also kept a fair amount of relatively ordinary players around for a long time.

 

[Craig_J]

Fergie rarely knifed people for the sake of it. He did it if they were well past their best or if they got too big for their boots and affected morale. Walker has done neither.

He also kept a fair amount of relatively ordinary players around for a long time.

Fergie didn't knife people unless he needed to, that is correct. But Fergie didn't have his sides bending over cheeks spread asking a relegated side to give them a good rodgering in what was a very important game for the supporters just because the title had slipped away.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Fergie didn't knife people unless he needed to, that is correct. But Fergie didn't have his sides bending over cheeks spread asking a relegated side to give them a good rodgering in what was a very important game for the supporters just because the title had slipped away.

Not sure what your point is?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Fergie rarely knifed people for the sake of it. He did it if they were well past their best or if they got too big for their boots and affected morale. Walker has done neither.

He also kept a fair amount of relatively ordinary players around for a long time.

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/th...-jaap-stam-and-how-he-wanted-to-stay-forever/

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...8/Roy-Keane-Fergie-was-cold-and-ruthless.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ruthless-Manchester-United-dressing-room.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ted-but-usually-made-the-right-decisions.html

He could be plenty ruthless when he needed to be, and knifing players for the sake of it was one of the ways he kept morale high, funnily enough. Indeed, he ended up making the team adopt his methods as well - if your form dropped, or if it was perceived to have dropped, boom came the hammer, and the team would pile on you as hard as the manager would. And, in cases like Stam's, you didn't even need your form to drop or your teammates to stop liking you for you to be shipped out - it was entirely down to the manager.

The key is standards - if you're constantly held to the highest standards, then you at least grow to appreciate the fairness of everyone being held to those standards equally. It stings the first time (as it will do with Walker if we sell him), but we need to be ruthless - otherwise, I'm at my wits' end as to how we can ever get rid of Spursiness by being some big lovable Spurs family where everyone's nice to each other and we get smashed 5-1 by ten man Saudi Sportswashing Machine and finish behind Arsenal *again*. These boys are soft, and they need hardening. So what would you suggest they need to harden them up? A shock, is what I'm suggesting. It's unfair, but then I can't see a *fair* way to remind them that mental fragility and failingto breach the 70-point barrier is just unacceptable given their obvious talent and our obvious ambitions.

 

[DeanoAustin]

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/th...-jaap-stam-and-how-he-wanted-to-stay-forever/

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...8/Roy-Keane-Fergie-was-cold-and-ruthless.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ruthless-Manchester-United-dressing-room.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ted-but-usually-made-the-right-decisions.html

He could be plenty ruthless when he needed to be, and knifing players for the sake of it was one of the ways he kept morale high, funnily enough. Indeed, he ended up making the team adopt his methods as well - if your form dropped, or if it was perceived to have dropped, boom came the hammer, and the team would pile on you as hard as the manager would. And, in cases like Stam's, you didn't even need your form to drop or your teammates to stop liking you for you to be shipped out - it was entirely down to the manager.

The key is standards - if you're constantly held to the highest standards, then you at least grow to appreciate the fairness of everyone being held to those standards equally. It stings the first time (as it will do with Walker if we sell him), but we need to be ruthless - otherwise, I'm at my wits' end as to how we can ever get rid of Spursiness by being some big lovable Spurs family where everyone's nice to each other and we get smashed 5-1 by ten man Saudi Sportswashing Machine and finish behind Arsenal *again*. These boys are soft, and they need hardening. So what would you suggest they need to harden them up? A shock, is what I'm suggesting. It's unfair, but then I can't see a *fair* way to remind them that mental fragility and failingto breach the 70-point barrier is just unacceptable given their obvious talent and our obvious ambitions.

Didn't read the links but see Keane's name mentioned. He was well past his best and was abusing his team mates on MUTV when he went.

Stam wrote a book which said some controversial things. As I recall, Fergie admitted years later that selling him was a mistake.

Fergie kept the likes of Fletcher and O'Shea around for years. They weren't great players but they could do a job and tow the line.

Walker, to the best of my knowledge, has never caused a problem in the squad and he's a decent player. Selling him, to prove a point, would be stupid.

 

[Craig_J]

Not sure what your point is?

My point is had he he might be more willing to pick out the one who's most expendable and make an example of him.

I agree that if you're doing it all the time, or try to do it without having earnt the players respect, then you could end up with a mutiny on your hands. But if the manager commands the respect of the dressing room, as Poch certainly seems to, then I think you can get away with it.

 

[DeanoAustin]

My point is had he he might be more willing to pick out the one who's most expendable and make an example of him.

I agree that if you're doing it all the time, or try to do it without having earnt the players respect, then you could end up with a mutiny on your hands. But if the manager commands the respect of the dressing room, as Poch certainly seems to, then I think you can get away with it.

There has to be some sense to it. In that case, I would pick out Alli or Dembele and sell them for lack of discipline.

However, Alli is a star in the making and Dembele is our most important player so not sure we want to make an example of either.

 

[We are Tottenham]

I am genuinely struggling to take this in!

This is arguably worse than chelsea winning the champs league, west ham beating us on the final day, arse winning the league at the lane. fudge we really know how to do it, like some club with a fetish for humiliation.

Even the money i won betting on Saudi Sportswashing Machine at half time means nothing.

How much did you win...can you buy another house now?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Didn't read the links but see Keane's name mentioned. He was well past his best and was abusing his team mates on MUTV when he went.

Stam wrote a book which said some controversial things. As I recall, Fergie admitted years later that selling him was a mistake.

Fergie kept the likes of Fletcher and O'Shea around for years. They weren't great players but they could do a job and tow the line.

Walker, to the best of my knowledge, has never caused a problem in the squad and he's a decent player. Selling him, to prove a point, would be stupid.

Right, well, read the links then. Stam had been marked for sale by Fergie well before the publication of his book, and his baffling replacement (Laurent Blanc) only added to the sense that he hadn't been sold for the reason Fergie outlined (which, again, came far before the release of his book). With respect to Keane, I can only direct you to the link itself - read it, and tell me if his 'abuse' of his team-mates was actually a problem worth selling him for.

Ferguson is an authority figure, and always has been. It has been his unparalleled strength, and is what enabled him (described as a cold, ruthless man in person) to win what he did. If that meant shipping a player out to reinforce his authority, so be it.

And when it comes to someone like Walker, he's actually been on enough of a run of bad form over the past month to make selling him seem less unjustified than selling someone just to reinforce your authority over the squad. Not much by any means, but enough.

I stand by my point - sometimes, you need to shoot an admiral from time to time to encourage the others. It's cruel and harsh, but I am at my wits' end as to how to stop mentally fragile teams like the one we evidently now have (again) from bottling it time and time again in situations like these. Unless we're content with chasing CL, sometimes getting it (as we have this season), hovering at the 70-point mark for eternity and finishing below Arsenal as long as the Earth revolves around the Sun, of course.

 

[thfcsteff]

You know what? I just saw Pochs post match interview on the BBC website and the fact that he seems as phucked off as I am about it has made me feel better. There might be one or two extra out of the door in the summer as a result of the past couple of weeks, because he was talking like a man who did not expect to finish lower than 2nd.

Brilliant interview, the sort of response I expect from him. I hope when the dust settles on this frankly brick brick last couple of games, people can take the time to appreciate who we have in charge, what he's done, what he's doing and what he will do. If there are still supporters who don't trust Pochettino, then I would suggest they are seriously not paying full attention...

 

[BucurestiSpur]

No excuse for that today will wash for me, nor apology.

From Poch on down everyone was a disgrace.

With what was at stake for the fans of Tottenham Hotspur today I would expect the lads lungs to be hanging out their ass, i would have expected at least one of the players, if not multiple, to be in the other players faces, i would have expected Poch to call over a different player at every single throw in/free kick opportunity and fudging wake them up.

We could have possibly ended the bottlers tag today instead its been ingrained into a new generation of players, Tottenham, and indeed, general football fans.

We are even known as bottlers in fudging Romania now.

Nice one.

 

[We are Tottenham]

One month in football...
Walking back to the car leaving the Britannia. Euphoric, thinking this is up there with the best Spurs team I have ever seen

Today. Gobsmacked at witnessing a performance up there with the 7-1 at SJP. (At least that Saudi Sportswashing Machine team hadn't just been relegated).

We'll all feel better after a few nights sleep, but on days like these you wonder why you shell out good money to follow your team, and wonder is it worth it? And then I think, just a few hours ago I was sat in a hospital in Wales next to a very ill Dad and it sort of puts into a different perspective

Sorry about your Dad...yes it puts it into perspective..

 

[Robspur12]

No it didn't
It was a brick, brick performance, but what did we not know going in?
We knew that
A) without Dembele, Alli and Rose we are a slower, more laborious side.
B) Without Dembele and Alli out midfied simply doesn't work as well.
C) The club have outgrown Mason and Carroll.
D) Our bench is not strong enough to make a true impact.

Let's see who has the courage to back the manager to learn and progress, to upgrade where clearly necessary.

No excuses, this was an absolute unmittigated shocker, and follows on from another poor performance last week. But let's not sound the doomwatch eh?

Love you steff and I love our manager but I am utterly heartbroken today. And to think it's only a game of football, I wish I could get some perspective but those fukkers always get one over us.

 

[Robspur12]

Mate, we were thrashed by *Saudi Sportswashing Machine*. Again. After they'd been *relegated* a few days ago. They had *nothing* to play for, and we had everything to play for.

And we conceded THREE goals after being given a man advantage for half-an-hour.

All this against a side that people were roosterily predicting we would easily beat, or at the *very least* get a point from.

Something is wrong, mate. No sense denying it.

Personally, I want Mason and other Spurs products to stay if possible, but I'm really hoping we see some major, ruthless surgery this summer, with players who had hitherto considered their places safe being either benched come the start of the season or outright sold. A shake-up that wouldn't have been needed a month ago, but given that we've been on holiday since the Chelsea game, something needs to change - this bottling Spursiness still exists, and needs to be cut out. If the players can't respond to positive encouragement like having a place to play for and a supportive manager to play under, then they might need negative reinforcement - play for your place in an increasingly ruthless side, or get tossed aside without a second look as we march onwards. No mercy, no leniency.

I don't think we'll see it, mind, but I'd do it if I were Poch - if he's learned anything from Ferguson, let it be sticking the knife in players and moving 'em on if they slip mentally as horrendously as they have done over the past month.

I can't dance with you - sadly. This team has shown all season it lacks the heart to win the really big games, the ones where our backs are against the wall. At least if dembele and Alli play we have the quality not to lose.

 

[vkn17]

Ah hear, would you stop.

We needed 3 points from the last 12 to finish ahead of our local rivals who we haven't finished ahead of in 20 years. That's an Arsenal side having their worst season in a long time and where the fans want their manager sacked. We've been talking for months about our great season and a power shift. And we bottle it. Again. Except this time we don't just bottle it. We do it in unprecendented fashion. We lose 5-1 to a team already relegated side who were down to 10 men at 2-1. That allows a poor Arsenal side to finish ahead of us.

If you can't see why people are annoyed, you have no business on a football message board.

I can understand that people are annoyed, I am too. But talking about sacking players and Poch leaving is fudging laughable.

 

[vkn17]

Did you watch the game? Do you not realise the consequences of what you've just seen? Not just the score, but the manner of our defeat?

No mate I didn't, all I had was glory glory and all the comments about getting rid of players, Poch fudging up etc.
We finished 3rd with the youngest squad in PL. our naivety cost us at Chelsea and we ran out of steam. It's disappointing and I was well tinkled off too but no way do the lads deserve some of the bashing received on here today.
That's my opinion at least.

 

[vkn17]

where did you order your super fan 5000 kit from? you know, the one where losing 5-1 to a relegated team to finish behind arsenal for the 21st year running is ok and not disappointing in the extreme?

Just took 5 min and realised that we overachieved thIs season. We lost to a side that had nothing to play for and probably had their best game of the season - with also missing two of our most important /creative players.
Disappointing? Sure. End of the world ? No.

 

[afsoc4life]

No excuse for that today will wash for me, nor apology.

From Poch on down everyone was a disgrace.

With what was at stake for the fans of Tottenham Hotspur today I would expect the lads lungs to be hanging out their ass, i would have expected at least one of the players, if not multiple, to be in the other players faces, i would have expected Poch to call over a different player at every single throw in/free kick opportunity and fudgeing wake them up.

We could have possibly ended the bottlers tag today instead its been ingrained into a new generation of players, Tottenham, and indeed, general football fans.

We are even known as bottlers in fudgeing Romania now.

Nice one.

Only Romania? Even in Nigeria - we are known as bottlers.