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OMT - Tottenham Hotspur Vs Norwich City

Man of the match

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .
glorygloryeze said:
Hmm, Olympiacos both home and away? The home match Dier was taken off after what, 30 mins?
Dier does not protect the middle much these days; we concede a lot of ground in the middle when he's there, even if a goal does or doesn't get scored from there, we are pushed back through players being able to play through the middle which puts us on the back-foot defensively.

When our competitors see Dier is there, they exploit that fact
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Then why do no goals come from the middle?
I’ve asked for some examples
He didn’t play olympioakos away so that’s not a good example
Olympiakos at home got goals from crosses that weren’t cleared
The reaosn teams play through the middle as you describe it is they have overloaded our right... we have a CM covering the FB leaving his partner exposed. It’s really that simple and that’s proven but heat maps of where players have played.
aurier didn’t do much going forward vs Norwich or Brighton and those teams then switched sides of went through the middle. It worked for them though as that showed up the lack of defensive ability on the CMs in those games. I mean Ndombele was outstanding vs Norwich but he couldn’t leave his position to drive forward as he was holding the fort
 
glorygloryeze said:
I agree, we have to upgrade our full-backs. But our CM area is weak defensively and it effects both us going forwards (our attackers are tentative re making runs as they are scared they will have to run back to defend more than they used to) and our defenders are more nervous and forced much more to lump balls forwards as they are scared that our midfielders will get dispossessed and immediately be faced with attackers.

Not replacing Wanyama and Dier (in terms of what they used to do for us defensively) is killing us
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Our attackers don’t defend. It’s part of the problem down our right that when Aurier goes pass Moura, Moura doesn’t know if it’s him or Sisosko covering so he doesn’t cover himself leaving sissoko 2 on 1 a lot. Their the overloads that decent teams capitalise on
Moura defends well when harassing and harrying, not covering. Same with Son on the left. He leaves the LB exposed as he can’t do the basics well currently
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Again... as I’ve said 100 times those goals came form wide not through the middle
The goals vs Norwich we’re straight through the middle (where a DM would be)
Address the lack of ability to defend wide (particularly the right) and you fix 70% of the issues
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I cannot understand anyone who can watch Dier's performances and still want him on the pitch. The view of how ineffective he is is probably even further magnified when actually at the game, where you consistently see a member of the opposition in acres of space in our half of the pitch with Dier 5 to 10 yards behind on the opponent's goal side of them, casually jogging back.

I'l have to watch both Norwich's goals again to see the specifics, but the first came from Foyth needlessly losing the ball in a ridiculous area. I'm not sure that Dier that even a fully fit and functioning Dier from 3 year ago would've made any difference for that?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Then why do no goals come from the middle?
I’ve asked for some examples
He didn’t play olympioakos away so that’s not a good example
Olympiakos at home got goals from crosses that weren’t cleared
The reaosn teams play through the middle as you describe it is they have overloaded our right... we have a CM covering the FB leaving his partner exposed. It’s really that simple and that’s proven but heat maps of where players have played.
aurier didn’t do much going forward vs Norwich or Brighton and those teams then switched sides of went through the middle. It worked for them though as that showed up the lack of defensive ability on the CMs in those games. I mean Ndombele was outstanding vs Norwich but he couldn’t leave his position to drive forward as he was holding the fort
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I don't get that last sentence? Are you saying that you thought Ndombele had an outstanding game playing in the position that Dier has been playing in?
 
Finney Is Back said:
I cannot understand anyone who can watch Dier's performances and still want him on the pitch. The view of how ineffective he is is probably even further magnified when actually at the game, where you consistently see a member of the opposition in acres of space in our half of the pitch with Dier 5 to 10 yards behind on the opponent's goal side of them, casually jogging back.

I'l have to watch both Norwich's goals again to see the specifics, but the first came from Foyth needlessly losing the ball in a ridiculous area. I'm not sure that Dier that even a fully fit and functioning Dier from 3 year ago would've made any difference for that?
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He would have been exactly where Foyth was
It’s where he plays
I go to most games and I can see a huge gap in the team
It’s normally between Sanchez and Aurier
It’s why teams exploit it
That’s factually correct. I’ve seen the games, but I’ve seen the heat maps that show actually where people play
I don’t care whether Dier jogs, sprints or walks if he does his job. The issue is any DM can to do their job when their isolated as their partner is covering for a RB okay RW. Kante can’t even do that
 
parklane1 said:
I agree and i have said elsewhere a partnership with a fully fit Dier would make us a lot stronger in that part of the team.
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A partnership with just a DM would be better. Doesn’t have to be Dier. I don’t care who plays DM just as long as we have one who will do the basics
 
glorygloryeze said:
You seem to forget the goals we concede when Dier IS on the pitcho_O

Remember both Olympiacos games, the game at Brighton, the latter stages vs Bournemouth and West Ham??
Dier does NOT make much difference...
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Bournemouth and West Ham were games where he was only just back. Brighton was a disaster. Olympiakos a fair example but I think the selection was wrong. I think he DOES make a difference; the games we have lost have seen him not playing!
 
glorygloryeze said:
So we are conceding from the middle AND wide; when Dier plays, we tend to concede, when he doesn't play we tend to concede.
We have issues across the pitch but Dier is NOT the answer as has been shown for a LONG time now..
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Simple question. Under Mourinho this season have we won more games with Dier on the pitch or without?
 
Finney Is Back said:
I cannot understand anyone who can watch Dier's performances and still want him on the pitch. The view of how ineffective he is is probably even further magnified when actually at the game, where you consistently see a member of the opposition in acres of space in our half of the pitch with Dier 5 to 10 yards behind on the opponent's goal side of them, casually jogging back.

I'l have to watch both Norwich's goals again to see the specifics, but the first came from Foyth needlessly losing the ball in a ridiculous area. I'm not sure that Dier that even a fully fit and functioning Dier from 3 year ago would've made any difference for that?
Click to expand...

Your example of Dier’s “positioning” is both isolated and without any context whatsoever. In fact, your observations underscore something I see when at stadiums, which is he often does the dirty work nobody finds “interesting” and is only noticed when not doing something it is perceived he should be doing. He is certainly far from perfect, and is also still playing his way back into form, but one thing he offers the side (which you can see both in stadiums and on screens) is shape. When he plays, others have clearer definition of their roles.

You ask about the Norwich goals and how he could’ve made a difference; I sincerely doubt Foyth would’ve carried there more than passing off to Dier. If he had, I would’ve expected Dier to immediately drop and cover. As it was, neither Eriksen or Ndombele knew what to do when Foyth misfired. As for the second, again, you would not have seen him and Toby pushed up in that area.

I understand he is not everyone’s cup of tea but he remains (IMO) a very important player.
 
thfcsteff said:
Your example of Dier’s “positioning” is both isolated and without any context whatsoever. In fact, your observations underscore something I see when at stadiums, which is he often does the dirty work nobody finds “interesting” and is only noticed when not doing something it is perceived he should be doing. He is certainly far from perfect, and is also still playing his way back into form, but one thing he offers the side (which you can see both in stadiums and on screens) is shape. When he plays, others have clearer definition of their roles.

You ask about the Norwich goals and how he could’ve made a difference; I sincerely doubt Foyth would’ve carried there more than passing off to Dier. If he had, I would’ve expected Dier to immediately drop and cover. As it was, neither Eriksen or Ndombele knew what to do when Foyth misfired. As for the second, again, you would not have seen him and Toby pushed up in that area.

I understand he is not everyone’s cup of tea but he remains (IMO) a very important player.
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I think he is important because the alternatives are worse not because he is brilliant
In reality the issues that we have to fix are full backs in my view which still isn’t something some recognise
The gaps in midfield are vast because of the covering we have to do for the tinkle poor full backs and that’s scary
 
Another disappointing result. We have dropped 2 valuable points in our top 4 race. Mourinho really needs to do something about our defence. We cannot expect to win matches needing to score at least 3 goals after conceding 2 goals each time. This was against the league's bottom team. Not sure how we are going to compere against much better teams. We started poorly and duly went behind. We did well to come back in the second but it was not enough to win the game.

Credit to Eriksen and Kane for the goals. It was a great freekick by Eriksen for out first goal. It was a rare goal direct from freekick from Eriksen. Wish he can score more freekick goals. Kane also took his penalty well for our second goal. But our attack have to take the blame for not making use of their chances more. The biggest culprit was Alli who wasted 2 golden chances to score just before both their goals. Good to see Lamela coming on in the second half but he didn't have much time to make an impact for us, just like Moura. Sessegnon failed to prove his worth despite starting this match.

Our midfield had another poor match. Ndombele and Lo Celso played well in patches but didn't do enough to control the midfield. This shows yet again how we badly need a defensive midfield who can control the midfield. Ndombele was brilliant at times but he needs to do more to help our defence and attack more. Wish he can score or assist goals for us.

Our defence can't seem to keep the clean sheets against any teams now. Annoyingly, we have now conceded 2 or more goals in 7 out of the 10 matches since Mourinho become the manager. In fact, we were fortunate not to concede another goal as Norwich had a goal ruled offside. I think we would have done better if Alderweireld and Vertonghen started together in defence. Foyth has to take the blame for their first goal after losing the ball stupidly which allowed them to go and score.

So, we end the year and decade with the disappointing draw. The period of 2010-2019 had been our most unsuccessful decade since the 1940-1949 decade as we failed to win any trophy. When we won the 2008 League Cup, really thought we would go on to win more trophies after that. But we have failed to do so since then. If we had won the CL final against Liverpool last season, it would have made up for all the disappointments. Instead we didn't turn up for the CL final and that seems to be affecting the morale of the team since then. Let's hope Mourinho will lift our performance and get us the badly needed trophies in the coming years.
 
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