***OMT: Tottenham Hotspur vs. Fulham *** Sunday, December 1, 1:30 pm UK

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree! This is why in the summer I was screaming about the need for two 1st team wingers.

I’d take one who can take the burden off son and Johson
I do rate Oderbert but the way it’s started for him I do have Routledge vibes

 

[Kompakted]

I like the contrast of what your saying but the company structure thing is not how I’ve seen us set up
We’re in effect set up as THFC holdings with subsidiary companies feeding into that
The holding groups income is club revenues to spend under PSR
That’s how it was only 18 months ago when I read up on it
And I read up on it because people were saying there is separate property company
There is… but it’s part of the group of companies

This is high level the way it is currently set up legally. The green arrows are what is being materially limited by PL PSRs. Of course, the cynic in you could argue Lewis and Levy make more money this way whilst claiming they did it to not saddle the sports club with property debt....

For anyone interested the group hold over £1.8 billion worth of fixed assets (property and plant) and have liabilities of over £1.2 billion). We recently restructured the debt witb Bank of America Merrill Lynch who have charges over the group companies and property

 

[90291Spur]

Again (because it is important that if you disagree, you disagree with the actual opinion I have and not one you think you've seen)

I said...

<<Injuries are going to be more frequent due to the amount of football played. You need two players per position minimum, and in positions key to a style, they have to be elite/specific to the managers needs. IMO anyway.>>

Please note, I did NOT say 'two elite players' per position. ONLY in the areas of the team specific to Ange's style.

If you disagree with that, great, but it is different from what you have tagged me as saying.

Add to this that players are often being rushed back too quickly. I was talking to a sports physic about this today and he said exactly that. Certain injuries require a pretty set time to be full healed, but in this day and age people are coming back too quickly.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is high level the way it is currently set up legally. The green arrows are what is being materially limited by PL PSRs. Of course, the cynic in you could argue Lewis and Levy make more money this way whilst claiming they did it to not saddle the sports club with property debt....

Well ENIC are in it to maximise their sale price
I don’t get the reference on property debt. Do you mean the stadium or the buildings that haven’t been built yet?

 

[Kompakted]

Well ENIC are in it to maximise their sale price
I don’t get the reference on property debt. Do you mean the stadium or the buildings that haven’t been built yet?

The stadium is what is generating the vast majority of revenue, but the club own a lot of high value property including the training centre and land.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The stadium is what is generating the vast majority of revenue, but the club own a lot of high value property including the training centre and land.

They do for sure
It’s all under one of the 27 companies that I could count earlier at least

 

[Muttley]

Makes me laugh that I still keep reading this "If Kane had stayed" argument.

Q: Where is Kane right now.
A: Injured, out for a month

He turned up to the Euro's with a back injury and shouldn't have been selected in the side. He had a shocker. He has patched himself up all season for BM and has scored valuable goals in an average league. However, that bad back has now manifested itself into a hamstring problem. That's not uncommon.

Do we really think this thirt-something Kane was going to be a major force into his thirties in the rough and tumble of the PL. He wouldn't even compete properly for headers 2 years ago, and ducked out of most of the running and physical side of the game. Ange would have had to build an entire system around a luxury player, and that was never going to happen.

If we're missing anyone that we let go now for Ange's system it's probably Bergwijn. He possibly could have been a valuable squad players, allowing these kids to mature. A little under elite, but had some raw attributes that could have been nurtured in my opinion.

 

[Kompakted]

They do for sure
It’s all under one of the 27 companies that I could count earlier at least

The issue being that the idea that the stadium is this big cash cow for the "club" is more complicated because the stadium is owned by I think Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd and the "football club" is Tottenham Hotspur Football & Athletic Club Ltd. I imagine match day tickets sales revenue are generated directly by the football club, and I imagine there's justification for saying that match day executive box fees and food, drink and merchandise sold when THFAC teams are playing at the stadium (THSL will effectively let THFAC have use of the stadium on match days. But non-matchday stadium revenue, including concerts and other events such as NFL will be generated by the THSL and profits made by THSL cannot be directly distributed to THFAC. They have to be distributed up to THL, the UK group holding company. The amount of reinvestment of these profits down to THFAC for "player trading activities" is directly limited by PL profit & sustainability rules.

Now as I've said you could argue that this is actually all quite convenient because "oh hey bum deal, I've got all this profit from Taylor swift concerts and NFL matches sloshing around in my UK holding company and bad old Premier League won't let me spend it on a new £100m striker, I'll guess I'll just have to distribute it up to ENIC and my trust fund in the Bahamas instead....boo hoo for me."

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The issue being that the idea that the stadium is this big cash cow for the "club" is more complicated because the stadium is owned by I think Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Ltd and the "football club" is Tottenham Hotspur Football & Athletic Club Ltd. I imagine match day tickets sales revenue are generated directly by the football club, and I imagine there's justification for saying that match day executive box fees and food, drink and merchandise sold when THFAC teams are playing at the stadium (THSL will effectively let THFAC have use of the stadium on match days. But non-matchday stadium revenue, including concerts and other events such as NFL will be generated by the THSL and profits made by THSL cannot be directly distributed to THFAC. They have to be distributed up to THL, the UK group holding company. The amount of reinvestment of these profits down to THFAC for "player trading activities" is directly limited by PL profit & sustainability rules.

Now as I've said you could argue that this is actually all quite convenient because "oh hey bum deal, I've got all this profit from Taylor swift concerts and NFL matches sloshing around in my UK holding company and bad old Premier League won't let me spend it on a new £100m striker, I'll guess I'll just have to distribute it up to ENIC and my trust fund in the Bahamas instead....boo hoo for me."

The profit you talk about is all traceable via the publicly available accounts
All income for people attending the stadium goes into that limited company… £26.7M in 2023

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/TS-k-wgV9miCAZl8liblZB50YK1Q4wiyyDTcNWmAdcE/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3HKJ7KKCJ%2F20241202%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20241202T224030Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEBoaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQDwrWjh2g3kyNzcXigwfcFBvLJ%2BOdagJ7oBCRwgNkEqNQIhAKi5BtV2rF9mAlOpQTaAjzPl%2BQ5J%2Fbl8Vdzy2l9RCp0mKsQFCML%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEQBRoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgwbpmWmDEPla9gsCn0qmAUy8sb1Cp5m39WyQw2oyL0a57Ofo3ZKqH0YHcdORI80hKm3Fa3fOLW99jEs3m6PEMiOKQLtKBU9MU9g3BwbzrFVbLCo%2BIKB609FbWP3YJZYxNw%2FLxLS1XjjUbjHLCE%2FOQmNJu8Z6NMuKNbfIseluicpEsBN2BUn5tI3CcQqAyMp9ff3vTGjy%2Bjlispu95oVMner6iFg5PeW%2Fxip7U5OKVJXrbkaCfKWzNR7a7DAgzbkU%2Bhinu6%2Bs6Ay9k9WYbV0j5zxFvMxHt%2FwztohMApSvSQmQJ3kztSrHU3u79OnJKS2XhOhFaoh3QEZlYc3FWpV1C33aXJVieu%2FtW1mrafbjheC3Dp2OOmlVNzIHwKdqVgz3yBe5%2BrA7iCXrrfk17lB21I80OkPz74EihupieehZxLjSfOsEleZTdRQgSUSYd30Nw1hnQlh9a8kTkqxssbDa8T%2FmHtbpyEOyOL4lUBFaXBhfFCdx6IuEmNUs3%2B02vdPFLMi4ROC4Ky0azM%2BrGRKKo8Tdv7r%2F4jf%2FKHrAPhUEwGea9rwIt3iUfZOT5W0RNhwMh8vydkHF%2BUmgDn5SXdzDkGR0eAmi4pno48jClc6u4XWNdKbH18iJeVGuZmIiefV2kssZ9hcki2x4VUdVXmV2Cq9%2FBaUyTxkNp4%2B5ndaDpQv9P7trUkHnGrMUpaX%2BtyVxELLdMfhdL4ZePUNobrQR5URaCKyHGEk9JHGtIIAQ7WK8tJxrO794yOzdCjAdMbFvvqxJeDUXs7%2BP3Y%2BTn%2B8PZXtIuPUWgYgYtd%2FjMaAdBbA824iodJZwfTCpT4KEJOXQjsN3CXT50AT%2FTAdcxYzlX%2FT2BtqOSgzQbBxBfFjAhJFNZd2n%2BF%2FakcK%2FDvelmZ7GE%2FT5YJAojE5MMrYt7oGOrABLzaJ3x4oOiq21gflQ4EN64ppXDQl4TT8B0qKRmNh9T8hplL8bl9Xtzlbn8NXUEa5B%2FANrfAXmN%2F%2BqNOWG%2BZbfe3sszWSzAkDRaQTl7o2ul9fR8zCsPT16umIjbe1hXFxITS%2Bbii4lfVARjqQEAOVpB%2F%2BDTD1jq7SZrjXRFiQtWV4jrX7ifyXJjhv%2BjjkKNx%2Bq0uDhaG4Uaxxyy8LA%2FiMHWqSx7izYd2dEv7yN53RyCQ%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22companies_house_document.pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=a158d81f88d1b93a1e7a5cbb9f6062264f3c5e572635a2e71b8f213948c263ad

 

[thfcsteff]

Makes me laugh that I still keep reading this "If Kane had stayed" argument.

Q: Where is Kane right now.
A: Injured, out for a month

He turned up to the Euro's with a back injury and shouldn't have been selected in the side. He had a shocker. He has patched himself up all season for BM and has scored valuable goals in an average league. However, that bad back has now manifested itself into a hamstring problem. That's not uncommon.

Do we really think this thirt-something Kane was going to be a major force into his thirties in the rough and tumble of the PL. He wouldn't even compete properly for headers 2 years ago, and ducked out of most of the running and physical side of the game. Ange would have had to build an entire system around a luxury player, and that was never going to happen.

If we're missing anyone that we let go now for Ange's system it's probably Bergwijn. He possibly could have been a valuable squad players, allowing these kids to mature. A little under elite, but had some raw attributes that could have been nurtured in my opinion.

That's a great shout.