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OMT Tottenham Hotspur vs Chelsea, WHL, Sat 28 Sept
- Thread starter Nezza
- Start date
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
I agree that starting Mikel was a mistake on his part, but I'll always judge a manager more on how he is able to change the flow of a game than how accurate his starting line-up is. Mourinho turned the game on its head with one change. AVB couldn't do it with three. Hence, Mourinho is currently better (albeit a lot more experienced and dislikable) than AVB in this department, if you judge based on this game alone.
Yep. Would rather have AVB over any other manager in the league, though, despite his flaws.
paxtonwolf
Tony Marchi
Yes. Lets not forget we lost this fixture last season. 2 of the 'big boys' out of the way in the first 6 games. West Ham,Villa and Hull coming up gives us a good chance to consolidate our position amongst the front runners.
Things are looking good right now..and we are still gelling as a team
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Stef, Jurgen....don't want to be a pedant BUT Ramires was NOT bought by AVB but by Ancelotti after the last World Cup...
After how Mata turned the match for them, I thought i'd point people again to a post where I mentioned my own theory about the Jose-Mata issue: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...matches-thread?p=436720&viewfull=1#post436720
After how Mata turned the match for them, I thought i'd point people again to a post where I mentioned my own theory about the Jose-Mata issue: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...matches-thread?p=436720&viewfull=1#post436720
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
But the only reason Jose was able to change the game with one sub is because that sub has been Chelsea's player of the year for the past two years running and should have been on the pitch from the start. However Jose for some reason is bat **** crazy. If he was actually such a good manager he would have started mata and Chelsea wouldn't have looked so ****e in the first half.
I find it hard to blame avb for that.
Stef, Jurgen....don't want to be a pedant BUT Ramires was NOT bought by AVB but by Ancelotti after the last World Cup...
After how Mata turned the match for them, I thought i'd point people again to a post where I mentioned my own theory about the Jose-Mata issue: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...matches-thread?p=436720&viewfull=1#post436720
Nice one...here it is for the lazy....
A theory I (glorygloryeze) heard this week related to the Chelski Jose-Mata issue:
During the time Jose was Madrid manager he bought Coentrao to the club. This was the summer of 2011 when Mata was being made available by Valencia (who needed to keep paying the big debt that have as a club). You'll remember a deal with Arsenal was in place for Mata until we triggered the release clause making Mata unattainable for them and Roman (and AVB!) swooped in and signed him for about 23m.
It is said that Coentrao and Mourinho both share the same agent (Jorge Mendes) and the Spanish and Madrid press said that this was the deciding factor in Jose buying spending 30m on him instead of paying less and buying a player like Mata. They also said it shows his wastefulness and negativity in spending that kind of money on a defender instead of a great CM.
Fast forward to now the theory goes that he doesn’t want to come into Chelsea and keep Mata as the jewel in their crown as that would prove those Madrid/Spanish hacks right – hence the briefings against Mata all summer and then the situation whereby he is made to play well ‘in the Mourinho way’ before he returns to form so that Jose can say ‘he only plays well like this because I changed him game to make him better’ etc etc
Sounds plausible to me. And I hope it’s a cancer that ravages his time at the club like the Cassillas/Ramos issue did at Real.
Certainly a very special one, is Jose…I hope we smash them on Saturday
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
When you`ve kept Oscar and Hazard quiet for 45 minutes, it shouldn't be that hard to keep Mata quiet as well in the next 45: there isn't a colossal gap between the quality levels of Oscar and Hazard and those of Mata, after all. But to do so requires pulling an ace of our own off the bench, namely Sandro. The only reason Jose was able to change the game, if I read you correctly, is because he had a phenomenal player on the bench that he should have started with. Well, we also had a phenomenal defensive talent on the bench, who was the best DM in the league up until his injury last season, and a full Brazil international to boot. Putting him on would have nullified Mata's impact to a great degree. Sure, it would have made us less fluid, but all the signs were there that Chelsea were going to step up it and we needed to act to head that off, a situation that warranted sacrificing fluidity for solidity.
Chelsea had a great player to call on when they needed to change things. We also had a great player to call on to change things back towards ourselves. Jose used his. AVB didn't, for whatever reason.
Again, not bashing on AVB, just pointing out that Jose out-thought him today and that there is scope to improve before he next faces his former mentor.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
Mata is far better than Hazard and Oscar in my mind. So yes it would have been far harder to close him out of the game.
I agree that AVB could have done far better with his subs. What i meant was i would not give Jose that much credit in bringing Mata on and changing the game, when the whole world would have started with him on the pitch and they would likely have run riot for the first 45 minutes as well. It is correcting a mistake of his own making, a mistake that everyone bar him knew.
SteveAWOL
Chris Jones
The passing maps emphasise quite what a difference the introduction of Mata made to the game as our attacking forays down the left flank were pretty much non existent for much of the 2nd half. Naughton only completed 3 of 4 passes and Gylfi just 3 of 5 during that 35 minute spell up until Torres was sent off, compared to 17/20 and 12/17 respectively in the previous 45 minutes. A shame that Torres wasn't sent off before Eriksen was substituted, as although he faded badly after the break I'd still have had more confidence in Christian being able to create chances against Chelsea' parked bus than Holtby.
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seaside spur
Ronnie Rosenthal
Ok mate, fair enough, we might have won with Moaninho but remember we don't know what our starting eleven and squad would have been going into the game if JM was our manager.
Who would he have bought and sold?
As we all saw with the Willian transfer it's not so easy to attractive players without CL football and lower wages. These are big obstacles and disadvantages that JM doesn't have to face at Chelsea.
I think it's impossible to say how we would be doing with JM as our manager.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
He would a brought in a team of ****s and turned the rest of our players to the dark side. I mean he even turned Torres into a ****.
Spurs7891
Jermaine Jenas
Satisfied with the draw but disappointed about the performance in the second half. Also, would have preferred a 0-0 draw and disappointed we let them score. We outclassed them in the first half but got outclassed by them in the second half. Again we failed to make use of our chances we had when we were so dominating in the first half. I think the turning point was Paulinho's miss late in the first half. Paulinho should have scored it or atleast passed it to Soldado who was unmarked. Disappointingly, we didn't have any shots on target after that in the second half. Being at home, really disappointed we let Chelsea outplay us like that in the second half.
We started really well and should have scored atleast 2 goals in the first half. Really disappointed we are not being clinical in front of goal. We are wasting too many chances. You really can't expect to beat big teams when you don't take your chances. But credit to Sigurdsson for scoring another well-taken goal. He is now our top scorer in the league with 3 goals which was his total league goals of last season. He also was unlucky not to score late in the second half when his shot went inches wife. Due credit to Eriksen and Soldado for creating the goal for Sigurdsson. Despite that, disappointed our strikers failed to score any goals, especially Soldado. Soldado has now gone 4 matches without a goal and hardly looks like scoring now. Defoe should have done better with the one-on-one chance in the second half. Don't understand why Defoe is not being as clinical in league matches as he always does in Cup matches.
Our midfield did exceptionally well in the first half but was outclassed by Chelsea in the second. It was like they got panicked seeing Mata coming on in the second half. Wish Paulinho had scored his chance in the first half. I am convinced we would have won this match if Paulinho had scored that to make it 2-0. Townsend did well to create that chance but disapointingly went missing in the second half. For all his workrate and dribbling skilles, disappointing that Dembele had no end product to show for. Wish Dembele can score or atleast create the chance for us. After creating our goal, was expecting more from Eriksen but he too went missing in the second half.
Really disappointed our defence didn't keep the clean sheet. More disappointed the way Chelsea scored as no one covered Terry from making that header. Lloris did well to make a few crucial saves but disappointed about others. Vertonghen seems like making too many errors this season. He is giving away too many freekicks from dangerous positions with clumsy or late tackles. He gave away the freekick which resulted in the Chelsea goal. He also got involve in unnecessary battle with Torres. Fortunately, Torres got send off but not sure Vertonghen will get lucky all the time. He needs to concentrate on his own defending first.
Wish we had won but drawing with Chelsea at this stage of the season is not really bad. If we had won, everyone would have taken us seriously as title contenders and it would have put more pressure on us. Instead it would suit us to be just a darkhorse and progress without being noticed much. Our second half performance was disappointing but hope we will learn from that experience to take on other big teams in the coming matches.
We started really well and should have scored atleast 2 goals in the first half. Really disappointed we are not being clinical in front of goal. We are wasting too many chances. You really can't expect to beat big teams when you don't take your chances. But credit to Sigurdsson for scoring another well-taken goal. He is now our top scorer in the league with 3 goals which was his total league goals of last season. He also was unlucky not to score late in the second half when his shot went inches wife. Due credit to Eriksen and Soldado for creating the goal for Sigurdsson. Despite that, disappointed our strikers failed to score any goals, especially Soldado. Soldado has now gone 4 matches without a goal and hardly looks like scoring now. Defoe should have done better with the one-on-one chance in the second half. Don't understand why Defoe is not being as clinical in league matches as he always does in Cup matches.
Our midfield did exceptionally well in the first half but was outclassed by Chelsea in the second. It was like they got panicked seeing Mata coming on in the second half. Wish Paulinho had scored his chance in the first half. I am convinced we would have won this match if Paulinho had scored that to make it 2-0. Townsend did well to create that chance but disapointingly went missing in the second half. For all his workrate and dribbling skilles, disappointing that Dembele had no end product to show for. Wish Dembele can score or atleast create the chance for us. After creating our goal, was expecting more from Eriksen but he too went missing in the second half.
Really disappointed our defence didn't keep the clean sheet. More disappointed the way Chelsea scored as no one covered Terry from making that header. Lloris did well to make a few crucial saves but disappointed about others. Vertonghen seems like making too many errors this season. He is giving away too many freekicks from dangerous positions with clumsy or late tackles. He gave away the freekick which resulted in the Chelsea goal. He also got involve in unnecessary battle with Torres. Fortunately, Torres got send off but not sure Vertonghen will get lucky all the time. He needs to concentrate on his own defending first.
Wish we had won but drawing with Chelsea at this stage of the season is not really bad. If we had won, everyone would have taken us seriously as title contenders and it would have put more pressure on us. Instead it would suit us to be just a darkhorse and progress without being noticed much. Our second half performance was disappointing but hope we will learn from that experience to take on other big teams in the coming matches.
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I think the problem we had was not keeping just one new player quiet but the fact that when all three play together, then collectively they cause a massive problem. Mata straight away gave Hazard and Oscar more scope because the combined movement of the two that started was much better once Mata was on the ball because he finds space and then in turn is so much more able to find more space with his next pass/move.
It was just frustrating we couldn't get the second goal before they got their first. With Mata coming on for Mikel, it left a bit unbalanced defensively and Jose was hopeful of overloading us and managing to get not just a 1st goal but maybe a 2nd through consistent pressure of bodies and movement. If we had got the 2nd goal of the game then it really would been game over and we would have been picking them off at will.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Strange that you are comparing to last season considering you said only the next game matters and previous games don't count for anything.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I think Ramires on Eriksen can't be understated. He stopped Eriksen becoming a viable pass, so we often played ourselves into trouble with no outball. Mata took up better positions than Oscar and Hazard, and dare I say he is more of a passing flair player than those two as well. What it really allowed though was Oscar and Hazard to pull wider and that stretched us. The limitations of our formation became apparent as they got at the full backs. Sigurdsson and Townsend provided very little help to our full backs and Dembele and Paulinho because stretched helping out. That left space for Mata to exploit.
Despite this it still took a free kick to score against us, and watching it over and over I still can't work out what our defence was doing. Some people were man to man, others were zonal. It was a bloody mess.