OMT ***Tottenham Hotspur v West Ham Dildo Club***

[glorygloryeze]

Where was our mental fragility against Dortmund, Madrid and Liverpool?

I think those results are evidence that our issue against West Ham was arrogance or caring less, not mental fragility.

Let's hope it was arrogance; i couldn't say for sure that it was tbh. But we all have to hope it was!

 

[Baleforce]

Hmm, you make it sound like that's not Jose's MO...

That's one manager that would have been proud of West Ham's goals last night...

Indeed it is, but we won't be lining up with such a patchwork defensive unit on Saturday.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Some fair points and perspective, but winning and losing can become habits; For example in respect of the bolded bit, if we lose our next two games, how will yesterday's loss look then?

All comps, this season:

WLDWWDWWWWWDWL

How does our winning/losing habit look, really?

Last night was a second string team, Im not sure how their performance really effects the form of our first choice team.

Except for the fact the like of Kane got the night off.

If we lose our next two games Im not sure yesterday will look any worse. We took the chance to rotate our squad in preparation for those games, to give ourselves the best chance of positive results. If its not to be, then its not to be - clearly we would still have progress to make...

 

[glorygloryeze]

All comps, this season:

WLDWWDWWWWWDWL

How does our winning/losing habit look, really?

Last night was a second string team, Im not sure how their performance really effects the form of our first choice team.

Except for the fact the like of Kane got the night off.

If we lose our next two games Im not sure yesterday will look any worse. We took the chance to rotate our squad in preparation for those games, to give ourselves the best chance of positive results. If its not to be, then its not to be - clearly we would still have progress to make...

I think momentum can be everything in footbal, and especially for a team like us which has a history of 'flakeyness', 'southern softyism' etc.
I remember our loss vs Arsenal in the same competition two years ago; whilst fustrating, i could live with it given the context and the games coming up etc. We also mixed our line-up that day iirc.
However, that defeat was far more palatable not eats because they are a better side, but also the luck they had plus we spent a lot of that game chasing as we were a goal down in the fist half.
If we'd lost yesterday in a similarly 'heroic' fashion then as you say in scheme of things given our resust up to this point it needn't cause us to lose mometum.
However, it was the flakeyist loss possibily seen under Poch givenwe were 'at home' (so to speak) and were flying at 2-0 up, plus our line-up imo was closer to our strogest side availble comaped to the game vs the Goons two years ago. Even our previous loss to chelski whilst fustrating, was not flaky like yesterday.
I do fear the great momentum we've built will be lost in a whisker after yesterday.
I hope i'm wrong and tbh the way you've laid out your point screams that i indeed am...let's hope so!

 

[StephenH]

All comps, this season:

WLDWWDWWWWWDWL

How does our winning/losing habit look, really?

Last night was a second string team, Im not sure how their performance really effects the form of our first choice team.

Except for the fact the like of Kane got the night off.

If we lose our next two games Im not sure yesterday will look any worse. We took the chance to rotate our squad in preparation for those games, to give ourselves the best chance of positive results. If its not to be, then its not to be - clearly we would still have progress to make...

I have spent 50 years saying things like this!
We had 9 first team players out there last night. So "second string" doesn't cut it for me. Bilic out motivated and thought Poch in the second half last night. Dele, Son and Dire played like school kids in the second half.
Moureen will have Poch on toast on saturday, IMHO.
We are soft!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I hope you are wrong too!

I do agree about momentum. It seems you are either riding it up or down - and maintaining and "up" is essential to success.

Where I disagree is that it wasnt "the team" last night. So what can it effect?

Were it our first 11 I would certainly be more concerned. As it is, when are we next going to see Foyth, for example?

It was a second string. I dont think it should effect much.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I think momentum can be everything in footbal, and especially for a team like us which has a history of 'flakeyness', 'southern softyism' etc.
I remember our loss vs Arsenal in the same competition two years ago; whilst fustrating, i could live with it given the context and the games coming up etc. We also mixed our line-up that day iirc.
However, that defeat was far more palatable not eats because they are a better side, but also the luck they had plus we spent a lot of that game chasing as we were a goal down in the fist half.
If we'd lost yesterday in a similarly 'heroic' fashion then as you say in scheme of things given our resust up to this point it needn't cause us to lose mometum.
However, it was the flakeyist loss possibily seen under Poch givenwe were 'at home' (so to speak) and were flying at 2-0 up, plus our line-up imo was closer to our strogest side availble comaped to the game vs the Goons two years ago. Even our previous loss to chelski whilst fustrating, was not flaky like yesterday.
I do fear the great momentum we've built will be lost in a whisker after yesterday.
I hope i'm wrong and tbh the way you've laid out your point screams that i indeed am...let's hope so!

I have spent 50 years saying things like this!
We had 9 first team players out there last night. So "second string" doesn't cut it for me. Bilic out motivated and thought Poch in the second half last night. Dele, Son and Dire played like school kids in the second half.
Moureen will have Poch on toast on saturday, IMHO.
We are soft!

I don't think yesterday will have any bearing on Saturday or the games after that, nor that we will lose momentum, nor that it shows us as soft/flaky as a matter of course. (And any team/manager who would make that assumption would be taking a big risk imo).
It is just irksome in its own right that we gave away a comfortable lead in a game we should not have lost through a lack of minimal focus/application in the second half.
We're still going to win the league though

 

[StephenH]

I think momentum can be everything in footbal, and especially for a team like us which has a history of 'flakeyness', 'southern softyism' etc.
I remember our loss vs Arsenal in the same competition two years ago; whilst fustrating, i could live with it given the context and the games coming up etc. We also mixed our line-up that day iirc.
However, that defeat was far more palatable not eats because they are a better side, but also the luck they had plus we spent a lot of that game chasing as we were a goal down in the fist half.
If we'd lost yesterday in a similarly 'heroic' fashion then as you say in scheme of things given our resust up to this point it needn't cause us to lose mometum.
However, it was the flakeyist loss possibily seen under Poch givenwe were 'at home' (so to speak) and were flying at 2-0 up, plus our line-up imo was closer to our strogest side availble comaped to the game vs the Goons two years ago. Even our previous loss to chelski whilst fustrating, was not flaky like yesterday.
I do fear the great momentum we've built will be lost in a whisker after yesterday.
I hope i'm wrong and tbh the way you've laid out your point screams that i indeed am...let's hope so!

Pochettino needs to stop thinking he is Alex Fergusson already, he is not.
IMHO he is turning into a media cliche, who is yet to win anything.
Pochettino for me still has much to prove. The Liverpool game result wise was wonderful but let's not kid ourselves as the Pool defence was perfection and Loris played a blinder. Last night suggests we have a long long way to go to improve the culture of the club.

Example http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/10233343/sky-sports-vault-tottenham-3-5-man-utd

 

[King of Norway]

What was the other day? Or did you spend the Monday on the smash celebrating too?! (I booked the Monday off work at the time as either result would have made it a painful day!!)

I also remember us winning it in 99. The first trophy we won in my time as a Spurs fan. I was in tears when Allan Nielsen scored the winner.

 

[elltrev]

For me there is more glory in qualifying from a Champions League group containing Real Madrid and Dortmund than there is beating Barnsley and West Ham en route to winning a Cup named after a Thai energy drink.

So many have this (IMO) dogmatic view that trophies are the be all and end all - why? So we can have one of these lovely-looking things in a cabinet that no-one ever sees?

 

[StephenH]

I don't think yesterday will have any bearing on Saturday or the games after that, nor that we will lose momentum, nor that it shows us as soft/flaky as a matter of course. (And any team/manager who would make that assumption would be taking a big risk imo).
It is just irksome in its own right that we gave away a comfortable lead in a game we should not have lost through a lack of minimal focus/application in the second half.
We're still going to win the league though

Saturday was always going to be tough. Last night was not just disappointing it was above all also totally unnecessary, that is what get my goat. 9 first teamers out there and they are incapable of keeping a 2 goal lead.
Full makes to West Ham they showed what a team of bottlers we truly are!
Kane will have moved a couple of inches closer to the departure lounge last night, have sat watching the sorry half of football!

 

[StephenH]

For me there is more glory in qualifying from a Champions League group containing Real Madrid and Dortmund than there is beating Barnsley and West Ham en route to winning a Cup named after a Thai energy drink.

So many have this (IMO) dogmatic view that trophies are the be all and end all - why? So we can have one of these lovely-looking things in a cabinet that no-one ever sees?

Last night has nothing to do with this or that trophy or league. It is basic football intelligence and game craft we lack both on the evidence of 45 minutes last night.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Saturday was always going to be tough. Last night was not just disappointing it was above all also totally unnecessary, that is what get my goat. 9 first teamers out there and they are incapable of keeping a 2 goal lead.
Full makes to West Ham they showed what a team of bottlers we truly are!
Kane will have moved a couple of inches closer to the departure lounge last night, have sat watching the sorry half of football!

Blimey, I thought I was struggling to put it all in perspective!

 

[scaramanga]

Some fair points and perspective, but winning and losing can become habits; For example in respect of the bolded bit, if we lose our next two games, how will yesterday's loss look then?

The same as it does now - like a thoroughly irrelevant loss.

 

[scaramanga]

All comps, this season:

WLDWWDWWWWWDWL

How does our winning/losing habit look, really?

Last night was a second string team, Im not sure how their performance really effects the form of our first choice team.

Except for the fact the like of Kane got the night off.

If we lose our next two games Im not sure yesterday will look any worse. We took the chance to rotate our squad in preparation for those games, to give ourselves the best chance of positive results. If its not to be, then its not to be - clearly we would still have progress to make...

Our last loss was followed by a run of 8 wins and 3 draws - maybe losing is a good thing!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I have spent 50 years saying things like this!
We had 9 first team players out there last night. So "second string" doesn't cut it for me. Bilic out motivated and thought Poch in the second half last night. Dele, Son and Dire played like school kids in the second half.
Moureen will have Poch on toast on saturday, IMHO.
We are soft!

I suspect you are a little "up" from last night still

Last night, I would argue the following first team players started:

Alderweireld, Dier, Alli and Davies.

Trippier, Sissoko, Rose and Son are all in the mix, but IMO dont make the first team all things being equal.

Vorm, Foyth and Llorente are squad players.

The team last night looks nothing like the team likely to play Saturday, IMO.


Im not sure how last night reflect so poorly on Pochettino to be quite honest.

For 45 minutes we bossed it, for 45 minutes we didnt. With a patchwork side. If anything, theres positives in there. Our makeshift lot didnt do so badly against the best 11 from a premier league club.

 

[StephenH]

Im not sure how last night reflect so poorly on Pochettino to be quite honest.

Because he has previous!
I'm just fed up to the back teeth with Spurs bottling it!

He was floundering managerially in the end, throwing on players on willy nilly. If he had maybe taken Deli and Son off at half time and then bought Eriksen and Debele on it would have seen the game out.
Llorente looks like he was taken off for Saturday?
His and the teams game management was blown away by a tiny bit of footballing determination from West Ham, fudge knows what Man U will do if they are up for it? Which they will be after watch that shambles!

As for the team, it was good enough to score 2 in the first half it was no second string. West Ham played football in the second half and we could not cope!

 

[glorygloryeze]

Because he has previous!
He was floundering managerially in the end, throwing on players on willy nilly. If he had maybe taken Deli and Son off at half time and then bought Eriksen and Debele on it would have seen the game out.
Llorente looks like he was taken off for Saturday?
His and the teams game management was blown away by a tiny bit of footballing determination from West Ham, fudge knows what Man U will do if they are up for it? Which they will be after watch that shambles!

Ok i'm fuming too; but what previous are you talking about?? We barely lose games on the trot these days..

 

[StephenH]

Ok i'm fuming too; but what previous are you talking about?? We barely lose games on the trot these days..

These cup defeats do so much damage to the moral and momentum of any "top" team. I dont give a toss about the league or FA cups in truth. But they act as a marker for a clubs stature in the pecking order and give everybody an UP! Now, we have a negative sarcky press and DOWN.
Look who is left in the competition.
The competition taken in isolation is nothing but we cant even win nothing!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Because he has previous!
I'm just fed up to the back teeth with Spurs bottling it!

He was floundering managerially in the end, throwing on players on willy nilly. If he had maybe taken Deli and Son off at half time and then bought Eriksen and Debele on it would have seen the game out.
Llorente looks like he was taken off for Saturday?
His and the teams game management was blown away by a tiny bit of footballing determination from West Ham, fudge knows what Man U will do if they are up for it? Which they will be after watch that shambles!

As for the team, it was good enough to score 2 in the first half it was no second string. West Ham played football in the second half and we could not cope!

Definitely still "up" then

Why would he change anything at half time when the first half performance and dominance was so comprehensive?

Llorente went off because Dembele would allow us a foothold in midfield to try and wrestle the game back, with Son being more than capable of playing up front.

The team got stuck on autopilot and couldnt react to West Ham actually getting up for it. Pochettino made subs to try and give us a hold of things. We finished the game absolutely peppering their box with them bricking themselves on their 6 yeard line.

I dont think, in any way at all, Pochettino was "blown away".

It was absolutely a second string side, no question about it.

I also think its folly to even try to indicate last nights team has anything to do with Saturdays. As we know what that will be and how it will play.