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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool FC ***

Bedfordspurs said:
Our fans flip more than any I’ve ever known (I know more spurs fans by default)
Our fans turn on players in minutes rather than season
And we expect the impossible because we pay more… we’re Tottenham… we’re in London
I’m fudged if I get why and that’s not really relevant
In football only a very very few amount of teams can win anything at any point and that’s the measure of success
West Ham fans are flipping on Motes because of the football but they celebrate being European champions
Chelsea may well be different because they have won things and their fan base has changed significantly because of it

I think our fan base would be different if we had won things. But is also thing we have a special type of fan.. entitled is a word I would use too
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I don’t think we’re any better or worse than any other club for the most part. Obviously there are some exceptions, like i said before I’d say United fans seem quite patient in general and not as reactionary as some teams and their fans. Certainly don’t agree with this view that our fans are really entitled and impatient and Levy has the patience of a saint and he really doesn’t want to fire all these managers. Levy is the one who is getting rid of them, on more than one occasion when the fans were firmly behind the manager.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t think we’re any better or worse than any other club for the most part. Obviously there are some exceptions, like i said before I’d say United fans seem quite patient in general and not as reactionary as some teams and their fans. Certainly don’t agree with this view that our fans are really entitled and impatient and Levy has the patience of a saint and he really doesn’t want to fire all these managers. Levy is the one who is getting rid of them, on more than one occasion when the fans were firmly behind the manager.
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The only manager who the fans have been firmly behind is Poch
Poch biggest achievement was uniting the club
That’s how you succeed in football unless you bottomless pits of cash
Jol was close to that but clearly didn’t have alignment with the board
Other managed have had detractors with fans and the board at varying points
Doesn’t mean they should have been sacked or quit but that’s part of a reason or course
But when I’m taking about fans I’m not sure what the levy part has any relevance for ?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Villa
Saudi Sportswashing Machine
Everton
Big clubs who haven’t won anything and have spent money
There are others I’m sure
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We are part of 'the big five' Manu, Emirates Marketing Project, Woolwich, Liverpool. That's the level we are at. Difference is we don't win things. I don't wonder why.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
For some reason, I found our first-half performance even less enoyable than the one against Chelsea but there seems to be a general agreement that we have to deal with a mix of players who have been under-performing since they returned from injury and a couple of people who seem to have dropped their heads. It would have been nice to have Champions League football next season but this could turn out to be a blessing in disguise if we're not ready anyway.

Regarding Postecoglou's perceived 'stubborness' I have to admit that I'm sitting on the fence. Keeping the same system on through thick and thin and showing the players you believe in it until the end is a bit of a gamble but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It all depends on how things are going within the squad and that's something none of us know for sure.

The past few months have been a drag, for sure, but we've been doing fairly well in the transfer market recently and if we get the right players in, who knows? He's certainly showed enough to be given another season. It would be pointless to sack him at this point, I think.

It's a bit of a cliché but football has changed so much these past 10 years or so that sometimes, I wonder if we judge managers fairly. They don't seem to have as much control over what goes on in a club as they used to.
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They have no control but most of the expectation
It’s cray but then they are well rewarded
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The only manager who the fans have been firmly behind is Poch
Poch biggest achievement was uniting the club
That’s how you succeed in football unless you bottomless pits of cash
Jol was close to that but clearly didn’t have alignment with the board
Other managed have had detractors with fans and the board at varying points
Doesn’t mean they should have been sacked or quit but that’s part of a reason or course
But when I’m taking about fans I’m not sure what the levy part has any relevance for ?
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The fans were behind Redknapp. I mentioned Levy because there is a lot of talk in this thread and others about how impatient we are and how Ange won’t get time if performances don’t improve because we are entitled but those posters don’t ever bring up how impatient Levy is and how HE has sacked managers often when the fanbase were behind them. I keep bringing up Arteta and his failure to finish in the top 4 three seasons in a row and how Levy would never tolerate that and the only response you get “he sacks managers because fans are impatient”. It doesn’t reconcile with the hard nosed, take no brick, strong image that’s projected of him does it?
 
Baleforce said:
That’s football now.

All fans are the same.
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Sadly i have to agree, all teams have their entitled fans [ i want it and i want it now] and we have our fair share. What i have noticed over the last decade or so is a influx of fans who scream and shout at everything to do with their clubs and pretend they have a better way of doing it then those who actually work in the game. You only have to look at the likes of T w att ER, Fa cebook etc to see the absolute drivel they come out with.
 
Jurgen the German said:
The fans were behind Redknapp. I mentioned Levy because there is a lot of talk in this thread and others about how impatient we are and how Ange won’t get time if performances don’t improve because we are entitled but those posters don’t ever bring up how impatient Levy is and how HE has sacked managers often when the fanbase were behind them. I keep bringing up Arteta and his failure to finish in the top 4 three seasons in a row and how Levy would never tolerate that and the only response you get “he sacks managers because fans are impatient”. It doesn’t reconcile with the hard nosed, take no brick, strong image that’s projected of him does it?
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As I said at the time
I know Arsenal met with other managers including a certain ex spurs manager. My company hosted them just before I joined. They couldn’t find anyone and stuck with Arteta. Strangely he hasn’t won anything with his team yet so we will see what evolve there I guess
Levy is chairman and part owner. I don’t think he sacks a manager because he wants him to. It’s because in his view the guy he is paying a lot of money too isn’t delivering. That’s the game now
I do think of fans showed some patience it would be reflected more on and off the pitch
 
Jurgen the German said:
The fans were behind Redknapp. I mentioned Levy because there is a lot of talk in this thread and others about how impatient we are and how Ange won’t get time if performances don’t improve because we are entitled but those posters don’t ever bring up how impatient Levy is and how HE has sacked managers often when the fanbase were behind them. I keep bringing up Arteta and his failure to finish in the top 4 three seasons in a row and how Levy would never tolerate that and the only response you get “he sacks managers because fans are impatient”. It doesn’t reconcile with the hard nosed, take no brick, strong image that’s projected of him does it?
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I'm not sure about that, I think even Jol, Redknapp and Poch, there was a large vocal group who wanted a change, it wasn't unanimous but any means, but it never is.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
As I said at the time
I know Arsenal met with other managers including a certain ex spurs manager. My company hosted them just before I joined. They couldn’t find anyone and stuck with Arteta. Strangely he hasn’t won anything with his team yet so we will see what evolve there I guess
Levy is chairman and part owner. I don’t think he sacks a manager because he wants him to. It’s because in his view the guy he is paying a lot of money too isn’t delivering. That’s the game now
I do think of fans showed some patience it would be reflected more on and off the pitch
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But surely it’s more important for Levy and the board to not be reactionary and be patient like other clubs have been? There may always be pockets of supporters who are unhappy but there’s never been overwhelming disapproval of a manager since Graham that has made their position untenable. The anger has been voiced at Levy and ENIC rather than those managers as they are the constant over 20+ years.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The only manager who the fans have been firmly behind is Poch
Poch biggest achievement was uniting the club
That’s how you succeed in football unless you bottomless pits of cash
Jol was close to that but clearly didn’t have alignment with the board
Other managed have had detractors with fans and the board at varying points
Doesn’t mean they should have been sacked or quit but that’s part of a reason or course
But when I’m taking about fans I’m not sure what the levy part has any relevance for ?
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How was the first season under Poch, though? Was everyone fully behind him, or did that happen in the second season and beyond when the team started playing better?

The thing people need to understand is that the majority of good managers need time. It took Klopp, Pep, Legoman at least a couple of seasons to get their philosophy through and the players that bought into it. I mean, it took Pep 3 seasons to win his first title! Now are there managers that can succeed in their first season? Of course there are. But then the next manager comes in and it's back to the drawing board. The formula for continued success is to establish a philosophy and align the team and the club to it and that takes time. But once you have done that it becomes much easier to sustain it, because you are following a blueprint that is clear. This is why this year's Liverpool, in spite of all the injuries they have had, has been consistent in its performances, whether it's the kids playing, or the big name players.

But all this takes time and it takes managers who are set in their beliefs, not ones who react to the previous week's result. And I truly believe that Ange is that type of manager. It's going to be rocky in the beginning, but as with Klopp, Poch, Arteta, Pep, the rewards will be there to be had if we stay the course.
 
Jurgen the German said:
But surely it’s more important for Levy and the board to not be reactionary and be patient like other clubs have been? There may always be pockets of supporters who are unhappy but there’s never been overwhelming disapproval of a manager since Graham that has made their position untenable. The anger has been voiced at Levy and ENIC rather than those managers as they are the constant over 20+ years.
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It’s massively important for that to be the case. But the board reacts to the fans and the fans react to what then perceive the board will do… it’s co-symbiotic
the things that can change is the players, the manager and the fans. They are all fluid. The board doesn’t change because they own the club… no one else does. It’s their choices.
I’d love new owners. I’ve said that repeatedly. Ideally ones with deeper pockets. But I don’t see anyone buying a football team at the value we have on the club. IMO it’s a stupid investment and a fan isn’t gonna waste £4B unless he is worth 10 times that
So what happens… nothing really
 
Batspur said:
Entitled? We haven't won anything of note for 34 years.

EnTITLED. We are the opposite of that. The law of averages for a club our size says we should have won an FA cup at least once under Levy and ENIC. I personally think he is the problem with the club. It's hardly a contentious opinion. It's basically counting at this stage.
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You do realise that statement in itself smacks of entitlement?
 
parklane1 said:
Sadly i have to agree, all teams have their entitled fans [ i want it and i want it now] and we have our fair share. What i have noticed over the last decade or so is a influx of fans who scream and shout at everything to do with their clubs and pretend they have a better way of doing it then those who actually work in the game. You only have to look at the likes of T w att ER, Fa cebook etc to see the absolute drivel they come out with.
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Agreed. You look at Spurs, we should be 6th or 7th in the league based on resources. Where we are now is ahead of that so Ange, big picture, is doing a good job. I wonder where some of the people who think we’re underachieving think we should be and what that’s based on.
 
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