OMT *** TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR V IPSWICH TOWN *** Sun 10th Nov, 14:00 BST, The Tottenham Hotspur Stadium

[Bullet]

I don't like our formation, too many square players in round holes.
Son isn't a wide left player. Johnson is a forward masquerading as a wide player.
Expecting the full backs to be full backs AND join in midfield AND even further forwards is too much work and disruption.
A formation like this would get our best players on the pitch. Very narrow though.
I'm just frustrated at how difficult we make things look, sometimes it seems impossible for us to fashion a good chance.

....Solanke Johnson
..............Deki
.....Biss Sarr Porro
..........Bentancur
VdV Dragusin Romero

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Was it also hard to coach a different way when we had basically one game a week all of last season? Because he did the same thing then too mate.

All opinions of course, but imo he won't coach a different way because he only has one tactic, and one that is being easily seen through and exploited by increasing numbers of managers.

No.
But he was bloody short of players for chunks of it
He won’t coach another way
Why would he
His way works if players do the basics right.
That’s what’s gonna frustrate him the most
And as said earlier are the best exploiting the system or the players.
I reckon a good catch can see that Romero is always out of position on crosses so teams with inferior players will target that as a weakness.
Teams think they can do us on corners but that been improved on significantly
Counter attacking was an issue but I believe we have conceded 2 league goals to counters if what I read on twitter is correct
What is true is it’s a young team
What’s clear js there are gaps in the squad that need fixing
What’s also clear is when we win people don’t say anything
So timing of when we lose has a bigger effect
I put it up here earlier it’s 5 games before internationals where our players have been outworks and outrun resulting in defeats.
The work rate may be down to fatigue but I think it’s mentality
We have had that issue for years
Long before ENIC by the way
It’s why we became a cup team because to win a title you have to demand excellence everywhere. We have players who accept less to focus on their own priorities possibly and maybe that is an ethos that’s encouraged

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't like our formation, too many square players in round holes.
Son isn't a wide left player. Johnson is a forward masquerading as a wide player.
Expecting the full backs to be full backs AND join in midfield AND even further forwards is too much work and disruption.
A formation like this would get our best players on the pitch. Very narrow though.
I'm just frustrated at how difficult we make things look, sometimes it seems impossible for us to fashion a good chance.

....Solanke Johnson
..............Deki
.....Biss Sarr Porro
..........Bentancur
VdV Dragusin Romero

I like the idea
Id go 3-4-1-2 with destiny and Porro flanking bisssouma
Kulu in that 1 role and Solanke plus another up top
Would mean players like Sarr may not get any games and it’s an on paper exercise of course

 

[Kompakted]

Was it also hard to coach a different way when we had basically one game a week all of last season? Because he did the same thing then too mate.

All opinions of course, but imo he won't coach a different way because he only has one tactic, and one that is being easily seen through and exploited by increasing numbers of managers.

Whether he's just being sarcastic or whether he is actually serious, he has even said in interviews we are just going to play one way,, his way and there isn't another way that we will play.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Whether he's just being sarcastic or whether he is actually serious, he has even said in interviews we are just going to play one way,, his way and there isn't another way that we will play.

Yep
Like every top coach
They instil a way of playing
but all systems fail if the players don’t/cant do the basics… running and passing being quite key then add marking your man or heaven forbid winning a header in the box

 

[Kompakted]

Yep
Like every top coach
They instil a way of playing
but all systems fail if the players don’t/cant do the basics… running and passing being quite key then add marking your man or heaven forbid winning a header in the box

All the players in this squad can do the basics, I'm sorry.

The other thing about defending is that I don't care how good a defender you are, if you're constantly being asked to win headers against or come out to engage PL level attackers, you're going to make mistakes, you're going to get punished.

The best teams don't let the crosses come in, don't let spaces open up to play through their defence and don't let teams get on the ball in space between their midfield and defence so they can run at the centre backs or full backs as they're back-peddling.

We are too open to win consistently in this league. We give chances away, we let numerous crosses into our box, we leave lots of space for the opposition to run into at times.

Now to play as high and as aggressively as we do, you could go some way to improve it with a competent and tactically disciplined DM.

Or you could change the formation and shape a bit and have a more moderate version of what we are doing.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Watch it again, it didn't bounce up. He headed it away but the Ipswich player who was challenging got in the way and it deflected up off that player..

I think some (not necessarily Bedford) have accepted he will eventually be on his way either to Real or somewhere else and they’re already mad at him for it. He seems to get a lot of stick. Maybe people are mad he can’t reproduce his Argentina form for us. But there’s an element of jilted lover stuff similar to when Toby was angling for a move away and people pretended it was ok because we had Sanchez he was a better player.

 

[thfcsteff]

He has a philosophy he believes in.
I think he has shown that within that philosophy, the execution of it can be tweaked and varied according to selection, specifically in midfield where we've seen two different types of 3 deployed. The FBs also seem sometimes to be more conservative depending on the situation.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think some (not necessarily Bedford) have accepted he will eventually be on his way either to Real or somewhere else and they’re already mad at him for it. He seems to get a lot of stick. Maybe people are mad he can’t reproduce his Argentina form for us. But there’s an element of jilted lover stuff similar to when Toby was angling for a move away and people pretended it was ok because we had Sanchez he was a better player.

I am not so sure. I think it is more along the lines of being a bit wistful that the player we know and love is in there is simply not playing as well as he can.

 

[thfcsteff]

I only have question marks over him playing that role because while he clearly looks an incredible young talent, I'm not sure whether again he might be more of a box-to-box. Does he have the positional sense and sense of danger to drop in when Romero pushes out? It doesn't have to be an exceptional player, it just has to be a player with the discipline and tactical sense. I keep going back to Eric Dier. Eric Dier was brilliant at that role. Playing DM and dropping back into the CB spots when the full backs pushed up or maybe when Jan or Toby brought the ball out of defence.

Eric Dier was looked at by a lot of clubs including Man Utd when he was playing DM. He also got in the England team.

Dier's downfall was that he himself saw himself as a CB. That's where he wanted to play, but he was turned too easily and wasn't aggressive/strong enough in the challenge to be elite as a CB. When he dropped back a bit of his star faded for me and the ire of the fans turned on him. That Dier/Dembele pivot though.....it was the absolute cornerstone of that brilliant Poch period.

I generally agree re: Gray. I think he is an 8 who could learn the role of 6 but not as an expert more as a help. It is one of the positions I wanted us to spend BIG on in the summer (my traditional time of ignoring history and believing THIS is the summer when we will spend big more than once in a window to get what we want) indeed I would've LOVED to throw a bank at Kimmich and get him in short term (can down the road kicking but a winning can!). Then I woke up and remembered that we wouldn't do that plus we had a plan (I think personally one seasoned and brilliant head would not have destroyed that plan but there we go...)

I probably cannot have rational discussions on Eric Dier mate. Others here will tell you I loved him. I can only say he didn't end up a bad club. All tactical stuff is deffo on the table, but not aggressive/strong enough? Not having that at all!
Yes, I remember his DM days, the Man U kerfuffle, all of it.
I loved him mate. Him and Dele. I'll stop now...

 

[Jurgen the German]

I am not so sure. I think it is more along the lines of being a bit wistful that the player we know and love is in there is simply not playing as well as he can.

That’s a part of it definitely. But the Madrid links constantly get brought up on here. He hasn’t said anything publicly to suggest he wants to leave. I think he will go this season or next if we don’t improve and finish in the top 4 minimum.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

All the players in this squad can do the basics, I'm sorry.

The other thing about defending is that I don't care how good a defender you are, if you're constantly being asked to win headers against or come out to engage PL level attackers, you're going to make mistakes, you're going to get punished.

The best teams don't let the crosses come in, don't let spaces open up to play through their defence and don't let teams get on the ball in space between their midfield and defence so they can run at the centre backs or full backs as they're back-peddling.

We are too open to win consistently in this league. We give chances away, we let numerous crosses into our box, we leave lots of space for the opposition to run into at times.

Now to play as high and as aggressively as we do, you could go some way to improve it with a competent and tactically disciplined DM.

Or you could change the formation and shape a bit and have a more moderate version of what we are doing.

Course they can
But they don’t always do it
So the question is why?
We were outrun yesterday in both halves, that’s also what happened against Brighton, that’s work rate, basics, minimum expectation
And I agree if you’re constantly being asked to win headers you will make some mistakes. The issue is we aren’t
They didn’t attack much yesterday. They did the basics
The issue is when we defend every player seems to think the other guy is gonna do their job for them. It doesn’t work like that
You can’t pass your man onto someone else without some accountability
You can’t go front post and leave the list and the skiers behind you unmarked or your team mate outnumbered
You don’t let the ball bounce before making you challenge (we did that loads and loss the second bounce)
It’s schoolboy stuff in reality
The high line isn’t hurting us like it did
Set pieces arent either
Poor passing and no defenders taking charge and leading is

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That’s a part of it definitely. But the Madrid links constantly get brought up on here. He hasn’t said anything publicly to suggest he wants to leave. I think he will go this season or next if we don’t improve and finish in the top 4 minimum.

Madrid won’t buy him
That’s rumours from spurs fans
They don’t spend money on older players (in their case over 21j and we will want a big fee
He ain’t going anywhere

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I am not so sure. I think it is more along the lines of being a bit wistful that the player we know and love is in there is simply not playing as well as he can.

He can play but his switching off is worryingly consistent and more so against weaker opposition who are more physical

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think some (not necessarily Bedford) have accepted he will eventually be on his way either to Real or somewhere else and they’re already mad at him for it. He seems to get a lot of stick. Maybe people are mad he can’t reproduce his Argentina form for us. But there’s an element of jilted lover stuff similar to when Toby was angling for a move away and people pretended it was ok because we had Sanchez he was a better player.

Fans of most of our rivals think he is over rated
I think he is under rated but has glaring weaknesses that haven’t changed one bit and get targeted

 

[Jurgen the German]

Fans of most of our rivals think he is over rated
I think he is under rated but has glaring weaknesses that haven’t changed one bit and get targeted

Fans of rival teams aren’t exactly impartial. To be fair I’m not even sure that peak Maldini and Baresi would look good in our broken system where we’re allergic to clean sheets.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Fans of rival teams aren’t exactly impartial. To be fair I’m not even sure that peak Maldini and Baresi would look good in our broken system where we’re allergic to clean sheets.

True, they aren’t
But they see us play and see the simplest mistakes
I know you and others keep on talking about the way we play but the first goal came when we had 8 players to their 4
Eight
2 to 1 and no one picks up the man who scores
And no one took any accountability
The second goal is quite well analysed in the Romero thread but again …. Really basic
Sonny has a simple pass and fudges it, badly
They then take tow touches to get out and we’re turned
Bentacur tries twice ti get the man so Cuti goes to the ball and leaves a huge void for their 2 left sided players to run at our right back and boom… goal
It started with a really simple pass being executed badly. Just needed to find one of the spurs shirts
And it came form us winning the ball via Sarr pressing, the way we’re meant too

That goal was a counter attacking goal so ticks the box there
Villas was a set piece but also a lucky bounce
West Ham and palace had men unmarked at the back from a cross from our left (again)
I mean every goal can be dissected but so few are because of constant pressure. The majority are poor marking and no one taking charge

 

[billyiddo]

Course they can
But they don’t always do it
So the question is why?
We were outrun yesterday in both halves, that’s also what happened against Brighton, that’s work rate, basics, minimum expectation
And I agree if you’re constantly being asked to win headers you will make some mistakes. The issue is we aren’t
They didn’t attack much yesterday. They did the basics
The issue is when we defend every player seems to think the other guy is gonna do their job for them. It doesn’t work like that
You can’t pass your man onto someone else without some accountability
You can’t go front post and leave the list and the skiers behind you unmarked or your team mate outnumbered
You don’t let the ball bounce before making you challenge (we did that loads and loss the second bounce)
It’s schoolboy stuff in reality
The high line isn’t hurting us like it did
Set pieces arent either
Poor passing and no defenders taking charge and leading is

IMV when PL players are not doing the basics right it's down to a lack of focus - that lack of focus can be caused by a few different things but most likely I would say it comes down to not being up to speed with the tactics or not having faith in them. Players/a team who are up to speed and are confident with how a manager expects them to play have the tactical side of things as second nature, they can then focus more on their individual performance - when they aren't yet up to speed or aren't confident in the game plan then their mind is distracted with remembering tactical instruction or being concerned that they are being sent out ill prepared which then causes lapses in concentration/messing up the basics.

 

[markysimmo]

What is scary is who was son passing too for their second goal…

When he could have and should have shot !!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

IMV when PL players are not doing the basics right it's down to a lack of focus - that lack of focus can be caused by a few different things but most likely I would say it comes down to not being up to speed with the tactics or not having faith in them. Players/a team who are up to speed and are confident with how a manager expects them to play has the tactical side of things as second nature, they can then focus more on their individual performance - when they aren't yet up to speed or aren't confident in the game plan then their mind is distracted with remembering tactical instruction or being concerned that they are being sent out ill prepared which then causes lapses in concentration/messing up the basics.

Habits are an issue too
Tired players go back to their default mode