*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Chelsea Rent Boys F.A Cup SF ***

[glorygloryeze]

Some interesting posts from the ShedEnd match thread for our game yesterday:

Yes we were the better team against palace and everyone felt hard done by after game, because we didnt deserve to lose. Im saying I would feel the same as a Spurs fan after yesterday. It pains me to see a spurs team who man for man are now better than us.

Against City i think it was tactical to sit deep but yesterday I felt we tried to press but they were getting out every time. And we couldnt string three passes together becasue we were pressed with more intensity. I will take the result but I am coming out thinking in 3 games against spurs this season, although we have won twice, we have looked the inferior side on all three occasions.

Some answers to above post

Alright Buzz Killington. Some people just have to have a moan no matter what the situation.

For me Spurs just need to get more players added to the squad and they will be a a even bigger threat soon. Kane has missed alot of this season also. Imagine losing an in form Costa for a big period.

Poch made some managerial mistakes yesterday changing to a back 3 and playing Son at LWB. He should have had more confidence in his own team but maybe he tought Hazard and Costa was playing and tried to match Chelsea.

Original poster replied to the above:

He matched us at White Hart Lane and that worked so wasnt a need to change. In general play you could say it worked too. Dont think the formation has anything to do with them conceding from 3 set pieces and a screamer.

..and then to another poster calling him a negative bore:

Just see things without the bias

If we lost 4-2 playing like Spurs everyone would be moaning about how undeserved it was and how lucky the other team were.

The same original poster when answering another poster saying Chelski beat Man Utd in April 2015 when Man Utd 'dominated' posession and that there was a difference between dominating posession and dominating a match:

Its not just about dominating possesion. We didnt just decide to sit back and concede possesion like is being said. We tried to press, and tried to play. But couldnt. We didnt play a Counter attacking game. We were just outbattled for the majority of the game. I am calling it as I see it. Happy with the result, hoping with a summer spree next year is different. But please dont tell me Spurs deserved to lose that game in 90 mins.

The same original poster also said this:

Look I'm delighted with the result. And would take a horrible win over losing every day. But I just take umbrage to posters who are saying we really deserved to win and are delighted with the performance (not the result).

I actually dont think our plan was to defend ultra deep and hi the counter attack. I think we tried to press for large parts of the game but some of our players were just half a yard behind. Alonso/Matic.

Another poster replied to the earlier post about "We tried to press, and tried to play. But couldn't":

One game we were lucky to win was at the Ethiad this year, City cut us open at will at times and Courtois had an amazing game. How many chances did Spurs have? Were we at our best? Absolutely not but we certainly weren't outplayed.

And no, I wouldn't be bemoaning our luck if this game happened in reverse, I would be wondering why we couldn't test the opposite keeper enough or create enough chances. Infact we played the role of Spurs yesterday in most if not all our losses vs Rafa's Liverpool in the 00s, yet I never thought we deserved better in any of those defeats.

This was dismissed by the original poster who brutally said:

completely different games v liverpool, dont use daft comparisons.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Part 2:

Another poster replying to the earlier post about "We tried to press, and tried to play. But couldn't":

IMO I believe Chelsea have to concede possession in midfield when they play teams like Spurs. Their midfield is simply more dominating and creative. Chelsea was a little lapse when clearing the ball but I guess that happens when you play deep. If Fabregas was playing the passing would be better and Hazard is a much better outlet who can turn away with one touch.

Kante against 2-3 midfielders is to overpowering if the game is open up. Also Chelsea didn't have the players in Pedro or Willian who can open up a game in one pass, they are more successful in other parts of their game.

Spurs didn't create alot but it's hard to create much against most teams who sit back let alone Chelsea who have been mastered and drilled at it all season.

The original poster replied sharply:

The same Chelsea that hasnt kept a clean sheet in how long?

Another poster weighed in:

New rules, bonus point for the team with the most possession.

Final score 4-3.

You still lose.

The original poster replied:

Its not just about possession. We had more possession v Man United last week but still deserved to lose. Its about intensity, desire and philosophy. Yes they didnt create much, but nor did we. And there was only one team looking like scoring in that second half. The pressed us better and passed better. We scored from a corner and a wonder goal. Briliant for us. But dont let that cover up the general pattern of the game.

Another poster continued with the original one about the City December game vs yesterday:

City away in December I admit we got the rub of the green and it should have been different, but when we score 4 goals (plus those sitters mentioned by Alonso and Costa) and the opponents didn't even have four serious goal scoring chances I don't see how we were lucky. Possession wise yes second best, tactically? No way.

The original poster's reply:

OK well if we have become a rich man Leicester City, having to sit back and nick games on the break then this is as much an issue as anything else. I don't want to see us play like that, and feel we have the players to not have to.

The original poster then posted this:

Man for man they are better in general not just yesterday. Certainly closer than in previous years. Yes they were superior and unlucky not to lose.

Tibo/Lloris - Nothing in it


Walker better than Moses


Rose better than alonso


Vertongen, Alderwiereld, Dier is as good if not better than Luiz, Azpi, Ake.


Wanyama and Demeble battered Kante and Matic (although I love Kante and felt sorry for him)


Eriksen and Willian very similar level.


Alli and Pedo, youd take Alli.


Kane over Costa.

First reply to this:

Think we can all accept they have a good team these days, but the same players you mention failed abysmally in the champions league and Europa league...as well as they've done in recent weeks, they have struggled against the top six away from home for years and there is a huge question mark over their ability to win the biggest games...talent can only get you so far, you need mental strength too, something we have shown in abundance (as well as quality football) and it's a pity that you seem to ignore the qualities in the team you support

The original poster's reply:

This is not a Spurs Loving from me. I hate seeing them do well. This is my point it pains me to a Chelsea team have to play like an inferior side to grind a win against them. This year, down to Conte mainly, we have shown very good mental strength. Dont forget last year though and the lack of it there.


As a CFC fan I would prefer my teams best qualities to be technical rather mental.

Another reply to the original poster's team comparison post:

Tibo/Lloris - Nothing in it - Agreed


Walker better than Moses - Walker better defensively, Moses slightly better going forward - not much in it would probably choose Moses in our system but can see the argument for Walker who probably is the better player


Rose better than alonso - Alonso better defensively and offensively, Rose quicker - I know you dislike Alonso because he is slow but Rose is the one player that Poch brings to another level who I actually think is a huge liability that Poch does very well to cover for would definitely give this to Alonso


Vertongen, Alderwiereld, Dier is as good if not better than Luiz, Azpi, Ake. Disagree I'd say Luiz Azpi and Ake are better as they are less error prone, despite being weaker aerially


Wanyama and Demeble battered Kante and Matic (although I love Kante and felt sorry for him) - Agreed Wanyama and Dembele have outplayed them in their encounters this year however I would say our midfield is set up is less important to our game and as proven this season we can be outplayed and even be dominated in midfield yet still come out on top, due to our tactical set up. I dont think there is too much difference in quality between the pairs however and it would probably be between Matic and Dembele for who supports Kante in our system which Dembele probably just pips. (I think Matic is massively underrated by most Chelsea fans ad there is a reason he is ahead of Fabregas.)


Eriksen and Willian very similar level. Agreed as is Pedro, Would take Willian ahead of him though as he is a bit more direct therefore better in transition and on the counter, Eriksen pips it in creativity though


Alli and Pedo, youd take Alli. I would take Hazard any day


Kane over Costa. Agree, as Costa has gone of the boil of late although i do still think that overall game is slightly better, I also think Kane needs a team designed around him and he wouldn't get that here and I don't really see him as an upgrade on even a misfiring Costa in our set up.


Whilst I agree Tottenham's squad is good I can't agree with you that it is better man for man whilst I am obviously biased the only spurs player I would want is Dembele

The original poster replied:

Fair points, nicely made.


I don't mean to say they are all better. But on the balance its very close. Hopefully next year there will be no question.


Have to disagree with Alonso over rose though. Think there is a few levels between them to be honest. Agree with Hazard...didnt add him as hes way above any of there players. I would take Both Fbs, Dembele, Alderweirald, Kane.

The reply:

I would also take Ali or Erikseon over Pedro or Willian. Both fullbacks are better than Moses and Alonso. Dembele over Matic, Kane over Costa. Would also take Alderweirald.


Tbh I would say there is much between Dave and Dier and Lloris and Courtois.

Another reply:

Yeah its a scary prospect if this tottenham side stays together with Poch at the helm it is only a matter of time until they win something.

I think Poch is brilliant and through his tactics and coaching has brought a few of these players to a level above where they actually are (look at their performances for England)


Hopefully Poch and Demebele get big offers elsewhere in the summer.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Part 3:

Some other interesting posts:

Funnily enough a combined Chelsea and Spurs Xl would be the ultimate 3-4-3 team.

Football isn't always about the best players though, I will openly admit I can see around 5-6 Spurs players probably being better than some Chelsea players but then football has never been that simple. Real Madrid have had so many good teams but how many league titles have they won recently, Athletico have some gifted players but not to the same level as the other Spanish teams and what they did in La Liga was special and did they get to an European League aswell? Simeone has a real togetherness there. Same with Leicester last year, I think the only player every club would take from their squad would be Kante from last season.

Sometimes you just need the right players to fit the system for example with Luiz who is probably the best sweeper in the game. Tactics, win when your playing badly, winning on those cold miserable days at Stoke, abit of luck with injuries and there is no doubt no European football helps teams. That's why I wanted Spurs to stay in the Europa League.

Obviously I might think for example Rose is better than Alonso but that doesn't mean I think he should be replaced by him or any player. It's not like Dembele for Matic where the difference would be unreal.

Then this very interesting one defending the original poster being referenced, who btw said that Eriksen "was a bit overrated" and that he would take Alli though wouldn't be sure where he'd fit in a 3-4-3:

You are getting a lot of flak on here but see where your coming from. In terms of general play yesterday, we were outplayed for 3/4 of that game but apart from their two goals they did not have any CCC apart from that header from the free kick. But it shows how good of a manager Conte is to no how to work round the opposition's strengths and that is what he did. But I made a point few hours earlier on this thread. Mentioned that it was worrying the way we were passed around the pitch and sometimes our players were literally lofting the ball to anywhere with space which was worrying. But the longer we stayed in the game, thought the game would sway in our favour.

I was also having a discussion with some friends earlier. TBH, the Spurs team are the only one in the prem where you would say they are complete. They don't have a weakness and you can argue that they have the best player in the league for every position they have. Lloris arguably is best keeper in league. IMO, Walker and Rose are the best RB and LB in league. Alderwerield is the best CB in league arguably, Dembele and Wanyama are arguable the best CM and DM in league. (Dembele is so underrated, he is brilliant). Wanyama is arguably the best DM in league. Alli and even Eriksen are arguably the best AM in the league and Kane for me is best striker in league. What lets them down is that the quality of depth. They need better depth but if they keep the core of that team together they are on the way to building something special. Have to admit that even as a Chelsea fan and they need to get that mental edge to perform on the biggest of stages (Always the bridesmaid, never the bride

)

Eriksen used to very inconsistent but he has been fantastic this season and is performing on a high level on a much regular basis. Was a brilliant match though either way and elated we reached the final. But one thing for sure is that it shows how excellent the team mentality is to loser against United and have media questioning whether there is a little crisis mode to respond by beating the best team in the country currently 4-2 and espec with the disruption of Cahill being unavailable and Ake stepping in, boys done brilliant.

So naturally there is/will be some Chelski fans who feel very superior and delighted they beat us, but make no mistake some see us as and Poch as a BIG threat in the coming seasons. They loathe us, but (say compared to Liverpool fans) they fear us and respect us certainly more than in the last couple of decades.

We should bear this in mind when we evaluate the game and our current position in the PL world.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Apologies if the format is hard to follow; i wanted it all on one post but it wasn't to be...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Apologies if the format is hard to follow; i wanted it all on one post but it wasn't to be...

See I love to read that as it makes you realise how some of the opposition see it

I heard two Chelsea fans talking after our game asking each other how they won that

It reminded me a bit of City away to be honest where we deserved nothing but got what we did through being dogged rather than brilliant (I know we gifted them two goals too)

 

[paxtonwolf]

Nice to see not all their fans are blinkered, unlike a few I heard on the radio coming home

 

[thfcsteff]

I came across some utter, utter tossers sadly. Happily I had good conversations with three good mates who are old school Chelski and as such immune from the new-breed millennial tacos who appear to follow them these days...

 

[tynesidespur]

We did start getting in his face but not until around 80 minutes in when it was too late.

Even a very lenient card policy, properly encated would have had at least 3 Chelsea players walking tightropes for the whole of the 2nd half. Would have made a massive difference.

Yep far too late. In a big game like that you need to set the tone in the first 5 minutes by contesting every decision. The ref then knows he's not in for an easy ride.

Other than the pen, which was served to him on a platter by Son/the lino who flagged for it, he set out not to make a controversial decision by stepping away from anything contentious. He bottled it from start to finish.

The crowd could play a part too. After Toby was booked I was screaming for cards in the next 5 mins for the Chelsea fouls. The rest of my block only started complaining about the ref after 60 mins. Too late - get in at him as players and as fans, it influences them I have no doubt.

In a 90 minute match, football is a war, the opposition is your enemy and the referee is never your friend. No-one wants preferential treatment, they want fairness. You can usually tell if the ref is going to be neutral or an enemy within 5-10 mins of kick off. Those 10 mins should dictate how we treat him for the remainder of the match.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

The reason we were always good in the cups was frankly because we were an inferior team, and that was our best chance.
Thats exactly the reason we should take the cups for what they are a one-off game and concentrate on how we are improving year on year in the league.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Yep far too late. In a big game like that you need to set the tone in the first 5 minutes by contesting every decision. The ref then knows he's not in for an easy ride.

Other than the pen, which was served to him on a platter by Son/the lino who flagged for it, he set out not to make a controversial decision by stepping away from anything contentious. He bottled it from start to finish.

The crowd could play a part too. After Toby was booked I was screaming for cards in the next 5 mins for the Chelsea fouls. The rest of my block only started complaining about the ref after 60 mins. Too late - get in at him as players and as fans, it influences them I have no doubt.

In a 90 minute match, football is a war, the opposition is your enemy and the referee is never your friend. No-one wants preferential treatment, they want fairness. You can usually tell if the ref is going to be neutral or an enemy within 5-10 mins of kick off. Those 10 mins should dictate how we treat him for the remainder of the match.

That period of 10mins after our equaliser, I thought the ref had announced an amnesty on yellow cards for players wearing blue, it appeared they had a free reign to commit fouls

 

[mudshark]

Their OP: Are you happy to be a rich man's Leicester City, then?

The rest of them: Yes.

With the equivalent of our resources, they'd be nowhere, and they know it.

 

[alekaras]

Still gutted about the game. 7 semi finals in a row now, just doesn't seem to be our competition anymore sadly.

We've got the players to match Chelsea, the only thing missing is the mentality. Whatever it takes to get us to the next level, I think we just don't quite have it. We're not far off in terms of personnel, maybe another 3-4 players whilst getting rid of some deadwood like Sissoko and GKN.

They scored from a free kick, a penalty, a corner and a screamer from outside the box. Hard to be too disappointed with the performance but ultimately the record books will say that we lost another FA cup semi final, I honestly think if we had taken the lead at any point then we would have won the game.

I think we have the mentality. We were just unlucky. We beat Chelski to end their 13-game winning run and we beat a high-flying City. We also came back from being down to Swansea in the 87th minute. We didn't play poor like we did against Pool. But as was evidenced in the other semifinal, sometimes the better team doesn't win.

 

[Raziel]

I think we have the mentality. We were just unlucky. We beat Chelski to end their 13-game winning run and we beat a high-flying City. We also came back from being down to Swansea in the 87th minute. We didn't play poor like we did against Pool. But as was evidenced in the other semifinal, sometimes the better team doesn't win.

This, we played well, were never out of it, sometimes it just doesn't go your way .. no need for spacegoats, no need to overthink it.

- We made a couple of individual errors, and one of their players scored a once in a career hit
- The little things didn't go our way, Kane's freekick being a good example

It hurts, but to win cups you need luck & good draws (this is the toughest last 4 in probably 10 years), we didn't get either ..

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think we have the mentality. We were just unlucky. We beat Chelski to end their 13-game winning run and we beat a high-flying City. We also came back from being down to Swansea in the 87th minute. We didn't play poor like we did against Pool. But as was evidenced in the other semifinal, sometimes the better team doesn't win.

We were unlucky, but I don't think we handle the pressure well when it really comes to the crunch. No one really expected us to beat Chelsea, we played against Emirates Marketing Project without Harry Kane and they had won all of their games to start the season so the pressue was off us once again. We've blown it whenever we've had the chance to go top of the league. I think ourselves and Arsenal are both fine when the pressure is off but fall short when it really comes down to it.

 

[alekaras]

We were unlucky, but I don't think we handle the pressure well when it really comes to the crunch. No one really expected us to beat Chelsea, we played against Emirates Marketing Project without Harry Kane and they had won all of their games to start the season so the pressue was off us once again. We've blown it whenever we've had the chance to go top of the league. I think ourselves and Arsenal are both fine when the pressure is off but fall short when it really comes down to it.

I guess we'll find out soon enough whether we have the mettle to win crunch games. 6 of them coming up.

 

[Hemant]

At risk of reigniting this thread two observations which ought have received more attention:
1. How and why did Janssen not get on for the last 10 mins when we needed two goals, especially as we could have made a fourth sub if it went to extra time? Doesn't bode well for him.

2. Why did we not protest about Atkinson being given this game as he was clearly biased in the phantom goal award for them in the last semi? IMO he should have never got this game.

 

[Rorschach]

The way the backspin stopped Kane''s late free kick from rolling over the line was bizarre and something I'll probably never see again.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

If that cnut Atkinson ever gets a final we are involved in again we should protest.

 

[Jordinho]

If that cnut Atkinson ever gets a final we are involved in again we should protest.

He just turned 46. I think FIFA have a cutoff at 45 for the highest level, but the PL allow them carry on a while longer. Foy was 52 when he retired.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

a song for Sunday

She swallowed the lot
She swallowed the lot
John Terry's mum
Is a dirty old slut