OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Burnley

[SpurMeUp]

The environment a great talent plays in as a youth is vital.
We nearly fudged it with Parrott TBH.
Right now it is a tough ask for any young player coming in and being asked to do a job.

At 17, Kane was leaden and did not look sharp. Loans built him.

Rooney is one of the only teenagers I ever witnessed roar through at 17 (I saw his full debut) and he was a physical freak/anomalie. I also think had he tried to do that in this social media-public critic-centric environment, he might well have not made it.

IF we really believe in Scarlett, we need to protect and develop him. IMO. And again, I would be looking for a short term experienced striker. Everyone laughed at Llorente and questioned his worth, but he was the consistent factor in our CL Final run.

Yes only Llorente has been even partly successful as a backup forward. At the time he was castigated as well. His presence in a couple of games in the CL did put the fear up the opposition. So you can see why we are not doing the same thing we have in the past with back strikers. Even if willing to commit serious money to a player who will be cover, if they have any ambition they won't want to come in and play second (or third) fiddle.

Rooney is the exception that proves the rule - that is very few 17 year olds excel on their first outing. As covered here, youth players need first team games to develop. Us playing youth players is however a good thing and will help them develop. There is a reason that is what players want, and what clubs like ours want too. These players still do a job and there is no reason they can't kick on, especially players like Scarlett who are showing serious talent.

We have plenty of examples of youth players coming through and making it, from Townsend to Kane, Bentaleb, Mason etc. Most didn't excel in their first games, and we didn't write them off in a whirl of vitriol for the club for not buying seasoned backup. They succeeded because we played them more and got behind them.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

You can look at Scarlett in isolation and see that he is a very promising player, and we would all like to see him get minutes and prove himself and be some kind of youth phenomenon. But it's a huge amount of pressure to put on such a young player, to suggest he can step up to Kane levels.
@SpurMeUp , I think your point is not that he is a Kane substitute, but that he can be the #3 striker, behind Kane and Son. But that only works if you accept Son as a back-up to Kane. Son is a fantastic player in his own right. We have used him to step in for Kane, but it is a waste of his attributes. We need Kane to be Kane, we need Son to be Son, and we need another, experienced, player to alternate with Kane. It's too soon for Scarlett to be that player. Maybe he can be the Kane +2, but not the Kane +1.
Experience is great, and being part of the matchday squad will be invaluable learning for Scarlett. But the dressing room when we have lost is going to be a tough place to handle. That's where his confidence is going to be at risk. If he's deemed good enough to play, he's deemed good enough to take the opprobrium of his fellow players for not being in the right place, for not making the right runs, for not converting chances, for not doing what Kane does. That's a lot to place on young, inexperienced shoulders.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yes only Llorente has been even partly successful as a backup forward. At the time he was castigated as well. His presence in a couple of games in the CL did put the fear up the opposition. So you can see why we are not doing the same thing we have in the past with back strikers. Even if willing to commit serious money to a player who will be cover, if they have any ambition they won't want to come in and play second (or third) fiddle.

Rooney is the exception that proves the rule - that is very few 17 year olds excel on their first outing. As covered here, youth players need first team games to develop. Us playing youth players is however a good thing and will help them develop. There is a reason that is what players want, and what clubs like ours want too. These players still do a job and there is no reason they can't kick on, especially players like Scarlett who are showing serious talent.

We have plenty of examples of youth players coming through and making it, from Townsend to Kane, Bentaleb, Mason etc. Most didn't excel in their first games, and we didn't write them off in a whirl of vitriol for the club for not buying seasoned backup. They succeeded because we played them more and got behind them.

Llorente's presence directly lead to us getting through the QF and SF. He was a smart short-term pickup, the sort we should be looking to get done in Jan IMO. Just a short term one.

Rooney is the exception TO the rule (for a 17 year old).
There is no 'whirl of vitriol' in my comments about a second striker not being bought, I merely believe it would be beneficial in the short term.
You genuinely believe playing a young talented 17 year old striker in our current way of playing is helping him? How? Explain it to me please, treat me like a novice. Because we are currently not producing too many chances.
I have to ask, do you have kids mate? I am not being rude, it is genuine question. If you have ever parented teenagers, you will know the vulnerabilities from 16-19.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Llorente's presence directly lead to us getting through the QF and SF. He was a smart short-term pickup, the sort we should be looking to get done in Jan IMO. Just a short term one.

Rooney is the exception TO the rule (for a 17 year old).
There is no 'whirl of vitriol' in my comments about a second striker not being bought, I merely believe it would be beneficial in the short term.
You genuinely believe playing a young talented 17 year old striker in our current way of playing is helping him? How? Explain it to me please, treat me like a novice. Because we are currently not producing too many chances.
I have to ask, do you have kids mate? I am not being rude, it is genuine question. If you have ever parented teenagers, you will know the vulnerabilities from 16-19.

"Because we are currently not producing too many chances".

That is not Scarlett's fault is it!? Ffs, he's a 17-year-old who was playing in a completely rotated side in the third tier of European competition. Crazy.

Yes I have kids. And I have a professional and academic understanding of pedagogy. If there is one truth you can take away it is that people need experience and practice. You learn from mistakes far more than anything else. As a club we have an amazing track record with youth players. So I have confidence in our setup that we will have lots of support in place and constructive input into Scarlett's development (which is what kids need too). People don't learn thing in the abstract, they learn by doing.

 

[thfcsteff]

OK, in order below with my answers bold-faced.

"Because we are currently not producing too many chances".

That is not Scarlett's fault is it!? Ffs, he's a 17-year-old who was playing in a completely rotated side in the third tier of European competition. Crazy.

Correct. Your point is? Because my point is that a young striker not getting many chances will find it tough to learn. What is he going to learn? More dangerously, is it possible he will feel he is at fault?

Yes I have kids. And I have a professional and academic understanding of pedagogy.

IF an academic understanding of pedagogy is, indeed, a strong suit of yours, can I ask quite how you think Scarlett's development would be improved learning in the current environment? Again, the CURRENT one, not an ideal one.

If there is one truth you can take away it is that people need experience and practice. You learn from mistakes far more than anything else.

Yes, is ANYONE disagreeing with that? No. But what you cannot have is young people learning from the mistakes of OTHERS, worse still, b being young enough to believe those mistakes are theirs. Between the impatience surrounding our club off the pitch and the problems/issues on it, this is a huge danger. I am alarmed you appear unable, or unwilling, to fathom that?


As a club we have an amazing track record with youth players. So I have confidence in our setup that we will have lots of support in place and constructive input into Scarlett's development (which is what kids need too). People don't learn thing in the abstract, they learn by doing.

Right. Again, there is NO disagreement with your last sentence, and frankly, your inference that some might not get that is insulting and shows me that perhaps you only see what you want in comments and not the points people are making. Which in this case are...


We do not have an 'amazing' record with youth players, it is decent but far from amazing in all reality.
1) the learning environment is wrong
2) Scarlett is being leant on not to 'develop his talent' but because we are too cheap/not prepared to do what needs to be done in having 3 top class forwards in the squad.
3) Scarlett could -due to age- end up absorbing the mistakes and behaviors of others as his own unless the coaching staff is incredible in THIS environment. NOTHING Nuno is doing suggests he is 'that' man (I feel sorry for Nuno but he just isn't that sort it would appear).
Still, if this continues, let's hope you're right, because otherwise we will have another in a long line of special talents we have managed to fudge up (think Pritchard, Edwards as newer examples).