***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur Football Club vs AFC Bournemouth***

[Mikey10]

You are right. We are Spurs. We must attack, attack, attack and score one more than them with at least 70% possession. It's the only way and been such a winning formula for decades. That's why our trophy cabinet is so full.

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And won the Europa League.

Yip. It was a great night and I am delighted we won it.

Let's not kid ourselves it was any indcation of any sort of quality on our part though.

We were playing in a competiton in which there were no CL teams dropping down; in which we therefore played Bodo bloody Glimt in the semi-final; and which saw the dreadful 16th placed team in the PL play the equally dreadful 17th place team, in a game of which I had thankfully forgotten the details five seconds after the whistle blew.

 

[Raziel]

Yip. It was a great night and I am delighted we won it.

Let's not kid ourselves it was any indcation of any sort of quality on our part though.

We were playing in a competiton in which there were no CL teams dropping down; in which we therefore played Bodo bloody Glimt in the semi-final; and which saw the dreadful 16th placed team in the PL play the equally dreadful 17th place team, in a game of which I had thankfully forgotten the details five seconds after the whistle blew.

Except we haven't done it before in decades, neither have Arsenal (who had a few shots at it), the usual winners are clubs like Sevilla & Frankfurt not just CL drop outs.

We were brick last season, but this idea that our B team should have strolled it just doesn't stand up to serious conversation.

 

[Finney Is Back]

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Yip. It was a great night and I am delighted we won it.

Let's not kid ourselves it was any indcation of any sort of quality on our part though.

We were playing in a competiton in which there were no CL teams dropping down; in which we therefore played Bodo bloody Glimt in the semi-final; and which saw the dreadful 16th placed team in the PL play the equally dreadful 17th place team, in a game of which I had thankfully forgotten the details five seconds after the whistle blew.

The same Bodo Glimt who defeated Lazio in the quarter finals? Irrespective, you can only beat what is put in front of you in any competition. We'd not seen silverware in Europe for 41 years. We had a glorious season last year. Our best since ENIC took over the club.

Had we gone out of the Europa earlier then we would've finished a fair amount higher in the league. After our back to back wins agianst Man Utd and Brentford basically all but secured our safety we went all out for the Cup. Granted, we wouldn't have got close to qualifying for Europe again but neither will we this season.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I firmly believe if a player doesn't want to be here we should sell them, you can only succeed as a team if you are all pulling together, I felt the same about Modric, Bale and Kane all great players.

 

[Mikey10]

The same Bodo Glimt who defeated Lazio in the quarter finals? Irrespective, you can only beat what is put in front of you in any competition. We'd not seen silverware in Europe for 41 years. We had a glorious season last year. Our best since ENIC took over the club.

Had we gone out of the Europa earlier then we would've finished a fair amount higher in the league. After our back to back wins agianst Man Utd and Brentford basically all but secured our safety we went all out for the Cup. Granted, we wouldn't have got close to qualifying for Europe again but neither will we this season.

Don’t disagree with most of that (although I’m not sure we’d have been much higher in the league Europe or not - we’d been on a downward curve from January of the previous year) but it was a poor quality competition. No getting away from that.

Do I care? No - we won it! My point was that it says nothing about our quality in comparison to other PL teams.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't see a significantly stronger squad - i didn't want us to sign Tel or Kudus as I think both are not at the required level and said as much at the time. Xavi quite clearly is way off of the required level to impact PL games, but he cost a lot of money so people will use that to say he's better than what we can plainly see. Palinha a decent signing but limited - he was a solid player for a mid table PL club, that's it. There's an extra couple of bodies but ultimately the needle has not shifted wrt quality.

Palhinha is an 'expert' in his field. Admittedly, such 'experts' are rarer these days, however he is a specialist when it comes to protecting the back four and winning the ball back. The folly is in pairing him with someone who is then made to sit alongside him; that's a coaching decision. If we paired him with a carrier then he'd be even more effective than he's been (and he's been effective). Xavi? He is the wrong player for a side which only creates via wide-positions. I think it ws poor recruitment to sign him given the fact Frank already had to be talked into wanting Eze. When we signed him, I was concerned that Frank didn't especially want him. Tel? There's a player in there. A really good one. Kudus? There's a higher ceiling in there. Both require elite coaching. Maybe Frank doesn't have the time for it right now, maybe he is not the right coach, or maybe he doesn't want these player (albeit he pushed hard for Kudus). The fact is he did have a stronger squad on terms of depth for 3/4 of the side. We totally failed him on the left-hand side IMO, totally.

 

[thfcsteff]

No worries. I always see your posts as balanced as you know.

My view is always that I'd love my club to play massively entertaining football but not as the be all and end all. I've spoken a lot about the disease in this club in the goals against column. You don't pick up a club who has conceded over 60 goals in the league for 3 seasons and not make that stat the number 1 priority for the entire football club. The club's history just doesn't come into it. You get down to basics.

Last night we opened up our footballing style and conceded 3 goals. Nobody has even mentioned it. That comes with the territory of being a Spurs fan. I would have taken a scrappy 0-0. A clean sheet and an away point. I feel like the absolute minority around here, believing that turning losses into draws, and draws into wins is the right way to run a football club.

The question to ask is from where did we concede those goals? None were as a direct result of 'opening up' our style. All were when we were sitting in a supposedly 'solid' defensive shape. In fact, we're sitting in deep for all of them and still they score! Frank expressed his frustration with this specifically.

 

[thfcsteff]

The same Bodo Glimt who defeated Lazio in the quarter finals? Irrespective, you can only beat what is put in front of you in any competition. We'd not seen silverware in Europe for 41 years. We had a glorious season last year. Our best since ENIC took over the club.

Had we gone out of the Europa earlier then we would've finished a fair amount higher in the league. After our back to back wins agianst Man Utd and Brentford basically all but secured our safety we went all out for the Cup. Granted, we wouldn't have got close to qualifying for Europe again but neither will we this season.

I'll tell you this @Finney Is Back , I actually cannot believe we are STILL trying to find ways to denigrate our first European trophy in 41 years. I really don't get it.

 

[billyiddo]

Palhinha is an 'expert' in his field. Admittedly, such 'experts' are rarer these days, however he is a specialist when it comes to protecting the back four and winning the ball back. The folly is in pairing him with someone who is then made to sit alongside him; that's a coaching decision. If we paired him with a carrier then he'd be even more effective than he's been (and he's been effective). Xavi? He is the wrong player for a side which only creates via wide-positions. I think it ws poor recruitment to sign him given the fact Frank already had to be talked into wanting Eze. When we signed him, I was concerned that Frank didn't especially want him. Tel? There's a player in there. A really good one. Kudus? There's a higher ceiling in there. Both require elite coaching. Maybe Frank doesn't have the time for it right now, maybe he is not the right coach, or maybe he doesn't want these player (albeit he pushed hard for Kudus). The fact is he did have a stronger squad on terms of depth for 3/4 of the side. We totally failed him on the left-hand side IMO, totally.

I mentioned this in another post but I would say that Palinha is an expert tackler only and I feel that real top class DMs are making more interceptions than tackles generally, possibly due to better positioning and reading of the game.

Regarding only creating through the wide areas - I feel this is a bit of a misconception about Frank based on what I have seen of Brentfords data from last season when comparing recently - both Noorgard and Damsgaard were getting on the ball and consistently playing progressive vertical passes through the middle, statistically speaking Brentford played as much through the middle as they did through either flank (last season at least) - this suggests to me that our current style of play is either not how we are intending to play or not how we plan to play eventually.

 

[thfcsteff]

I mentioned this in another post but I would say that Palinha is an expert tackler only and I feel that real top class DMs are making more interceptions than tackles generally, possibly due to better positioning and reading of the game.

Regarding only creating through the wide areas - I feel this is a bit of a misconception about Frank based on what I have seen of Brentfords data from last season when comparing recently - both Noorgard and Damsgaard were getting on the ball and consistently playing progressive vertical passes through the middle, statistically speaking Brentford played as much through the middle as they did through either flank (last season at least) - this suggests to me that our current style of play is either not how we are intending to play or not how we plan to play eventually.

In fairness to Frank he wanted Norgaard immediately and I was surprised he didn't get him, thus supporting further your observation. Yes, he took a couple of seasons to get Damsgaard ticking (a player I wanted us to sign before Brentford did) but he got him working. I was wondering if we'd try to sign him, but felt Brentford would tell us to fudge ourselves if we tried.

I think it's fair to say that despite the facts you've pointed out, Brentford still played a similar 'counter' game and that the chance creation still came via breaks and not possession-based football. I actually went to a couple of Brentford games last season when we weren't playing as my step-dad's a Brentford fan. It was, well, what is said on the tin TBH.

Your last sentence is the one I hope is true...with an extra dose of possession to sweeten the deal

 

[parj]

I mentioned this in another post but I would say that Palinha is an expert tackler only and I feel that real top class DMs are making more interceptions than tackles generally, possibly due to better positioning and reading of the game.

Regarding only creating through the wide areas - I feel this is a bit of a misconception about Frank based on what I have seen of Brentfords data from last season when comparing recently - both Noorgard and Damsgaard were getting on the ball and consistently playing progressive vertical passes through the middle, statistically speaking Brentford played as much through the middle as they did through either flank (last season at least) - this suggests to me that our current style of play is either not how we are intending to play or not how we plan to play eventually.

Creating from wide areas might be a misconception based on Brentford, but we are always trying to go wide. We put crosses into the box where there is only one or two attackers. We definitely want to go wide at the moment.

 

[paxtonwolf]

I think losing at home to West Ham would be that. Losing to Villa (whilst not nice and as long as not a complete battering)s no disgrace, but losing to this West Ham team would certainly be...

Sorry, it wasnt the fact I thought losing to Villa was the bad thing, it was more of going out of the FA Cup early doors once again

 

[billyiddo]

Creating from wide areas might be a misconception based on Brentford, but we are always trying to go wide. We put crosses into the box where there is only one or two attackers. We definitely want to go wide at the moment.

Agree that is how we are setting up at the moment - i just don't believe this is the end goal of how we want to play.

 

[parklane1]

I'll tell you this @Finney Is Back , I actually cannot believe we are STILL trying to find ways to denigrate our first European trophy in 41 years. I really don't get it.

Sad really, like you i can not get it.

 

[carl]

The same Bodo Glimt who defeated Lazio in the quarter finals? Irrespective, you can only beat what is put in front of you in any competition. We'd not seen silverware in Europe for 41 years. We had a glorious season last year. Our best since ENIC took over the club.

Had we gone out of the Europa earlier then we would've finished a fair amount higher in the league. After our back to back wins agianst Man Utd and Brentford basically all but secured our safety we went all out for the Cup. Granted, we wouldn't have got close to qualifying for Europe again but neither will we this season.

Was such a glorious season that most of us dreaded going to home games.

Winning the EL was a great achievement, but was probably the least enjoyable season I can remember

 

[DeanoAustin]

Was such a glorious season that most of us dreaded going to home games.

Winning the EL was a great achievement, but was probably the least enjoyable season I can remember

Said it before, only fudging Tottenham could fail to win a trophy when at our (in living memory) peak and then go and win one when we’re at our lowest ebb in almost 50 years.

 

[tommysvr]

I'll tell you this @Finney Is Back , I actually cannot believe we are STILL trying to find ways to denigrate our first European trophy in 41 years. I really don't get it.

Oh I can absolutely believe it!

 

[Raziel]

Palhinha is an 'expert' in his field. Admittedly, such 'experts' are rarer these days, however he is a specialist when it comes to protecting the back four and winning the ball back. The folly is in pairing him with someone who is then made to sit alongside him; that's a coaching decision. If we paired him with a carrier then he'd be even more effective than he's been (and he's been effective). Xavi? He is the wrong player for a side which only creates via wide-positions. I think it ws poor recruitment to sign him given the fact Frank already had to be talked into wanting Eze. When we signed him, I was concerned that Frank didn't especially want him. Tel? There's a player in there. A really good one. Kudus? There's a higher ceiling in there. Both require elite coaching. Maybe Frank doesn't have the time for it right now, maybe he is not the right coach, or maybe he doesn't want these player (albeit he pushed hard for Kudus). The fact is he did have a stronger squad on terms of depth for 3/4 of the side. We totally failed him on the left-hand side IMO, totally.

Paulhinha is a very good player, just not one at this level we need to play every game, especially as he gets older, I'm 100% onboard with making him permanent if we play him in rotation with the right tactics.

Re Tel, Xavi, Eze, I am conflicted, I have no fudging idea what Frank is trying to do, and in that model, who do you buy for him.

My real fear is Frank wants a left sided Kudus/Porro pairing, which is we whack the fudging ball as hard as we can at Kudus as the outlet, he brings it down and either takes on his man or passes it back to Porro who then booms a cross into the box, if that's what we want to do on the left hand side, I really don't even know what to say.

I also fundamentally have an issue with Frank being "I only want these players", he's not fudging Conte/Ancelotti/Pep, there must be a reasonable conversation of these are the players the club sees a future in, we will allow you x number of your choices but there are constraints to work within. The Tel vs. RKM situation is interesting, one is our player, the other isn't, yet Frank seems was more interested in keeping RKM on the pitch despite lack of output (I agree there is a player there but still)

 

[NaijaSpurs]

We have played less through balls than any other team in the league including Wolves. It shows how tedious and boring we are in central midfield, zero creativity.

 

[thfcsteff]

Paulhinha is a very good player, just not one at this level we need to play every game, especially as he gets older, I'm 100% onboard with making him permanent if we play him in rotation with the right tactics.

Re Tel, Xavi, Eze, I am conflicted, I have no fudging idea what Frank is trying to do, and in that model, who do you buy for him.

My real fear is Frank wants a left sided Kudus/Porro pairing, which is we whack the fudging ball as hard as we can at Kudus as the outlet, he brings it down and either takes on his man or passes it back to Porro who then booms a cross into the box, if that's what we want to do on the left hand side, I really don't even know what to say.

I also fundamentally have an issue with Frank being "I only want these players", he's not fudging Conte/Ancelotti/Pep, there must be a reasonable conversation of these are the players the club sees a future in, we will allow you x number of your choices but there are constraints to work within. The Tel vs. RKM situation is interesting, one is our player, the other isn't, yet Frank seems was more interested in keeping RKM on the pitch despite lack of output (I agree there is a player there but still)

And this my friend is where we're at.
I agree and have said all along that if THAT is the destination for Frank's game, then I will be very unhappy. I am waiting for proof it isn't.
There are people who do not believe that is the destination and have faith that the destination for Frank's game is decidedly m ore aligned with the football we want.
I desperately, desperately want those folks to be right. But I personally need a sign.