O/T Let's kick racism out of football...?

[milo]

Walob.

Absolute rubbish. Less opportunities? They can apply just the same as any manager can. Just because there are only a handful doesn't prove anything!! I don't know why there aren't many black managers but they've got 92 league clubs to apply for if/when they become available the same as anyone else in management!

If you don't know why there aren't more black managers, isn't it a bit early to discount unequal opportunities?

Do you think that there is an old boys network in football?

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

No.

 

[billyiddo]

If you don't know why there aren't more black managers, isn't it a bit early to discount unequal opportunities?

Do you think that there is an old boys network in football?

I think it is more down to there being an "old boys network" than racisim - im sure there are plenty of white coaches who find it just as difficult as their non white counterparts to get in to the game because they don't have the right connections - it's just they can't cry racisim because of it.

I think there is far too small a number of people at the moment to leap towards racisim as an answer

 

[Gutter Boy]

Football is less racist than general society IMO. Odd players like Terry and Suarez obviously still live in the dark ages. But other than music, there are few sections of society than black British people have been so successful at reaching the top of their field and in winning acceptance from even traditionally hostile parts of society.

We've had black England captains (3 or 4 now) and few people even noticed because it wasn't a big deal.

I've got no time for Kick It Out. They are a quango that just struggle with hairbrain ideas to try and justify their own existence/funding.

Homophobia in football. Now that's the real issue these days.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Without being racist, might this be that nobody wanted to take a gamble on them due to the lack of decent Asian players in the past?

Re Asian players - it's just a section of society that doesn't have a culture of playing football. Look across couny cricket though and see how English-Asians are flourishing in their sport of choice.

Re Barnes - it's no co-incidence that he can't get a job whilst Chris Hughton is always in such high demand. Barnes has always been an absolute disaster on the touchline.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Probably alot less racist that the rest of society given the over representation of black players.

 

[Superted]

Is football racist? Or are racists just really good at football?

 

[Naughton16]

Personally I resent all the anti racism messages and kick it out stuff you get at matches. It assumes everyone in attendance is a potential racist. You wouldn't expect that if you paid to attend a concert or an opera or something.

If football attracts racists then the police should do their job and use resources to target the racists. But don't insult people and families with kiss who have paid good money to watch a game.

 

[Naughton16]

*kids. Damn predictive text.

 

[jts1882]

Black footballers were extremely rare in the 70s and even when Barnes played still a small minority. So its not surprising that from a small pool of players there are only a few black managers. Its only since the 90s that football has become colour-blind for players. Its inevitable there will be a delay for managers (please finish the post before jumping on this).

So yes, black managers are under represented, but its mainly a sign of racism in the past. I think we are in the transition period now. With the large pool of black footballers, there will soon be a lot more black managers. There will also be change in the board room where the old generation who were brought up when black footballers were rare are replaced by those who expect to see black footballers in every team.

I believe that because of the NFL experience. In the 80s it was still thought that you couldn't have a black quarterback, let alone black coaches. Yet slowly black quarterbacks made their mark (Williams, Cunningham, Moon) and now there is nothing unusual about a black quarterback. The same with coaches, there were very few through the 90s, but now are much more commonplace. The NFL did introduce policies forcing teams to interview black coaches for coaching jobs, which probably sped up the change that was happening anyway.

However, while I believe the change will occur inevitably, we shouldn't be complacent. It must be frustrating for the generation of potential black managers who lose out. While I don't think Barnes or Ince were good managers, its a fair point about white managers getting many opportunities. I also can't help looking back at all the managerial changes we had while Chris Hughton was an assistant.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Are Black managers under represented? - as a % of population it is probably about right - as a % of players playing in the league probably under represented but as previous this is probably due to a lag of 10-20 years from when this became the norm for players.

Also worth noting the lack of White English Managers in the Premiership when looking at this - I believe Football is the ultimate meritocracy (due to $$) if you are good enough you will get a chance.

 

[Jimmy Kong]

Now I'm not saying you're being racist, just wanna make that clear before I continue.

Your statement starts "Without being racist," and ends by suggesting that maybe the reason for not signing an Asian player is that there have been a lack of decent Asian players in the past, so in a sense saying don't sign him coz he's Asian! So my point is that somebody can't make a judgement on someone of an ethnic group purely based on their experience of other people of that ethnic group without being racist! It's certainly not aggressive racism but its racism

Its hard though - there are big differences in cultures and ethnic groups and to ignore them would be stupid (in a sporting context). By that theory is it not sexist that there are no women in the premiership?

 

[jts1882]

Or is it racist to say British Asians are good at cricket? Its certainly a generalisation based on race.

 

[unknown]

It is if people still have to discuss it.

 

[Jimmy Kong]

It is if people still have to discuss it.

Was this a serious reason or a joke?

Sorry, hard to tell on the internet

 

[Rob]

Its hard though - there are big differences in cultures and ethnic groups and to ignore them would be stupid (in a sporting context). By that theory is it not sexist that there are no women in the premiership?

Did you watch the Olympics

 

[Spursalot]

Its hard though - there are big differences in cultures and ethnic groups and to ignore them would be stupid (in a sporting context). By that theory is it not sexist that there are no women in the premiership?

It's not sexist that there are no women in the Premiership.


It's realist. Men and women are not equal, they do not compete on an equal physical footing.

 

[jts1882]

It's not sexist that there are no women in the Premiership.


It's realist. Men and women are not equal, they do not compete on an equal physical footing.

Sexist and realist are not mutually exclusive.

What if I modified your argument and said:

It's not racist that there are no black managers in the Premiership.


It's realist. {insert your own words*}, they do not compete on an equal {insert your own words*} footing.

* I'm not prepared to write the words on a public forum, even when just making a point. It would obviously be a racist argument.


It doesn't mean you are wrong about being realist. There are practical reasons but the argument is inherently sexist. Its saying men and women cannot compete together because of some stereotypical characteristics. Some women are faster and stronger than some men, so why shouldn't those able to compete by allowed to. Each individual according to their own abilities, that is what non-discrimination is about.

 

[milo]

Black footballers were extremely rare in the 70s and even when Barnes played still a small minority. So its not surprising that from a small pool of players there are only a few black managers. Its only since the 90s that football has become colour-blind for players. Its inevitable there will be a delay for managers (please finish the post before jumping on this).

So yes, black managers are under represented, but its mainly a sign of racism in the past. I think we are in the transition period now. With the large pool of black footballers, there will soon be a lot more black managers. There will also be change in the board room where the old generation who were brought up when black footballers were rare are replaced by those who expect to see black footballers in every team.

There are more Premiership managers who didn't play the game professionally than there are black managers

 

[Gordinho]

Now talking about Walter Tullwood

Have I missed something here?