O/T European Cup Changes?

[AdamB]

Re: O/T Champions League

I disagree - we need stronger incentives in the EL and agressive re-branding of what is essentially Europe's second most prestigious club tronphy - The UEFA Cup

Agreed. Need to have bigger cash prize for the Europa and also the Europa winners given entry into the group stages of the following years CL - that will then make teams take it seriously

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T Champions League

Er.. So instead of having 8 CL groups and 12 EL groups just having 16 groups would be too much?



8+12 > 16 as far as i was aware..

Obviously the 12 EL groups is too much as well.

 

[AdamB]

Re: O/T Champions League

Also agree that they need to bin teh rule which allows CL drop outs to enter into the EL

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T Champions League

Also agree that they need to bin teh rule which allows CL drop outs to enter into the EL

absolutely

 

[Spursalot]

Re: O/T Champions League

Obviously the 12 EL groups is too much as well.

So drop the EL to 8 groups, Having 16 CL groups would be exactly the same as that situation where they have 8 EL groups and 8 CL groups.


I'm not sure where the too many games comes in. They'd be groups of 4 teams, so they'd be exactly the same number of games. 32 would qualify for the next round, just like the current EL.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: O/T Champions League

Not sure if serious?

Have a look at some of the teams in this year's EL

Having more top 7 teams than a single Top 7 club means the average standard/quality is increased and it subsequently becomes harder to compete with more top league teams

Sorry but the old Uefa Cup had teams from 2nd-4th in the top leagues, it now has 4th-6th and domestic cup winners and champions league drop outs/non-qualifiers. If you can't see why the former was the strongest competition then it is time to have a lie down!

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T Champions League

So drop the EL to 8 groups, Having 16 CL groups would be exactly the same as that situation where they have 8 EL groups and 8 CL groups.


I'm not sure where the too many games comes in. They'd be groups of 4 teams, so they'd be exactly the same number of games. 32 would qualify for the next round, just like the current EL.

I just think that 16 groups playing over 3 days is too much to keep up with. Weed out some of the weaker teams first and you'll get a much better group stage. The G14 or whatever they're called obviously don't think like that, they just want to make money and nothing's better than a tinkle easy group stage with full stadiums, playing reserve teams. That's what the greatest club competition in the world has become. Used to be the best teams in all or nothing battles. I really don't get why tv stations and sponsors fork out small fortunes on it.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: O/T Champions League

I just think that 16 groups playing over 3 days is too much to keep up with. Weed out some of the weaker teams first and you'll get a much better group stage. The G14 or whatever they're called obviously don't think like that, they just want to make money and nothing's better than a tinkle easy group stage with full stadiums, playing reserve teams. That's what the greatest club competition in the world has become. Used to be the best teams in all or nothing battles. I really don't get why tv stations and sponsors fork out small fortunes on it.

Fair enough.

I'm of the opinion that the 'weaker' teams make the competition that much more special. The upsets that occur are some of the most entertaining games that occur. I'd much rather see some different teams rather then the same old 'top' teams playing each other season after season, that for me is part of the entertainment of Europe. Each to his own i guess.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T Champions League

Fair enough.

I'm of the opinion that the 'weaker' teams make the competition that much more special. The upsets that occur are some of the most entertaining games that occur. I'd much rather see some different teams rather then the same old 'top' teams playing each other season after season, that for me is part of the entertainment of Europe. Each to his own i guess.

That's why I don't really want a group stage. Unseeded draws all the way, or at least most of the way. Over two legs these smaller teams might stand a chance. An upset in the first leg would at least set up an interesting return fixture. In a group stage it's much harder to go through. They need one of the big teams to screw up really.

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: O/T Champions League

Sorry but the old Uefa Cup had teams from 2nd-4th in the top leagues, it now has 4th-6th and domestic cup winners and champions league drop outs/non-qualifiers. If you can't see why the former was the strongest competition then it is time to have a lie down!

I suggest it's you who has to do a bit more research and compare the line-up in recent EL competitions (last 10 years) to those in the mid 80s for example

Here is the 1986/87 UEFA Cup 1st round line up (grpup stage equivalent - 1st round 'proper'

Which one would you say is harder / easier to win (even from a Spurs perspective)?

• AC Sparta Prague
• Vitoria SC
• Fiorentina
• Boavista
• Athletic Bilbao
• FC Magdeburg
• Atlético Madrid
• Werder Bremen
• Borussia Monchengladbach
• FK Partizan
• Coleraine F.C.
• Stahl Brandenburg
• Dinamo Minsk
• Győri ETO FC
• F.C. Groningen
• Galway United
• Nantes
• Torino
• FC Spartak Moscow
• FC Lucerne
• FC Universitatea Craiova
• Galatasaray
• Swarovski Tirol
• Sredets Sofia
• Heart of Midlothian F.C.
• Dukla Prague
• Hibernians FC
• Botev Plovdiv
• Internazionale
• AEK FC
• IA
• Sporting Clube de Portugal
• Jeunesse Esch
• K.A.A. Gent
• Beveren
• Valerenga I.F. Fotball
• Kalmar FF
• Bayer Leverkusen
• Bayer 05 Uerdingen
• FC Carl Zeiss Jena
• Flamurtari Vlorë
• FC Barcelona
• LASK Linz
• Widzew Łódź
• Legia Warszawa
• Dnjepr Dnjepropetrovsk
• Napoli
• Toulouse
• Neuchâtel Xamax
• Lyngby Boldklub
• Standard Liège
• OFI Crete
• Hajduk Split
• Pécsi MSC
• Feyenoord Rotterdam
• Rangers F.C.
• Ilves Tampere
• RC Lens
• Dundee United F.C.
• Sigma Olomouc
• IFK Göteborg
• Sportul Studenţesc
• AC Omonia

Here is this season's EL line up (group stages)

• Atlético Madrid
• Internazionale
• Lyon
• Liverpool
• Marseille
• Sporting CP
• PSV Eindhoven
• Tottenham Hotspur
• Bayer Leverkusen
• Bordeaux
• Twente
• Stuttgart
• Basel
• Metalist Kharkiv
• Panathinaikos
• Athletic Bilbao
• Copenhagen
• Fenerbahçe
• Rubin Kazan
• Napoli
• Udinese
• Club Brugge
• Hapoel Tel Aviv
• Hannover 96
• Lazio
• Steaua București
• Sparta Prague
• Rosenborg
• Saudi Sportswashing Machine
• Young Boys
• Levante
• Borussia Mönchengladbach
• Partizan
• Viktoria Plzeň
• Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
• Helsingborg
• Rapid Wien
• Académica
• Anzhi Makhachkal
• Maribor
• AIK
• AEL Limassol
• Ironi Kiryat Shmona
• Molde
• Videoton
• Neftchi Baku

 

[Raziel]

Re: O/T Champions League

Usual stupidity built around greed, protectionism and agendas by people completely disconnected to the fans. CL needs to be smaller not bigger.

My view -> turn CL into a Cup Winners Cup, i.e. Winners of League, Domestic Trophies & Europa Cup (e.g. for England = PL, FA Cup, League Cup, +if someone wins Europa)

Then Europa becomes more of a "European FA Cup" with phased entries, maybe make it knock out all the way?

That way you actually make the CL more prestigious, you revive the value of domestic and Europa competition, and you actually make it much harder for a team to be in CL every year for numerous years in a row (hence making it harder for them to get an unfair advantage in their domestic league).

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T Champions League

Wait, are we talking UEFA of old vs EL of today or UEFA vs EC back then compared to EL vs CL today?

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: O/T Champions League

Wait, are we talking UEFA of old vs EL of today or UEFA vs EC back then compared to EL vs CL today?

We are talking old UEFA Cup (Harry ranked it just below old CL back in the day) vs new EL Cup

He seems to think it was much harder to win it back then

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T Champions League

We are talking old UEFA Cup (Harry ranked it just below old CL back in the day) vs new EL Cup

He seems to think it was much harder to win it back then

A well known club isn't necessarily the same as a quality team though.

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: O/T Champions League

A well known club isn't necessarily the same as a quality team though.

We can compare it contextually - no problem

Name and shame

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T Champions League

I suggest it's you who has to do a bit more research and compare the line-up in recent EL competitions (last 10 years) to those in the mid 80s for example

Here is the 1986/87 UEFA Cup 1st round line up (grpup stage equivalent - 1st round 'proper'

Which one would you say is harder / easier to win (even from a Spurs perspective)?

• AC Sparta Prague
• Vitoria SC
• Fiorentina
• Boavista
• Athletic Bilbao
• FC Magdeburg
• Atlético Madrid
• Werder Bremen
• Borussia Monchengladbach
• FK Partizan
• Coleraine F.C.
• Stahl Brandenburg
• Dinamo Minsk
• Győri ETO FC
• F.C. Groningen
• Galway United
• Nantes
• Torino
• FC Spartak Moscow
• FC Lucerne
• FC Universitatea Craiova
• Galatasaray
• Swarovski Tirol
• Sredets Sofia
• Heart of Midlothian F.C.
• Dukla Prague
• Hibernians FC
• Botev Plovdiv
• Internazionale
• AEK FC
• IA
• Sporting Clube de Portugal
• Jeunesse Esch
• K.A.A. Gent
• Beveren
• Valerenga I.F. Fotball
• Kalmar FF
• Bayer Leverkusen
• Bayer 05 Uerdingen
• FC Carl Zeiss Jena
• Flamurtari Vlorë
• FC Barcelona
• LASK Linz
• Widzew Łódź
• Legia Warszawa
• Dnjepr Dnjepropetrovsk
• Napoli
• Toulouse
• Neuchâtel Xamax
• Lyngby Boldklub
• Standard Liège
• OFI Crete
• Hajduk Split
• Pécsi MSC
• Feyenoord Rotterdam
• Rangers F.C.
• Ilves Tampere
• RC Lens
• Dundee United F.C.
• Sigma Olomouc
• IFK Göteborg
• Sportul Studenţesc
• AC Omonia

Here is this season's EL line up (group stages)

• Atlético Madrid
• Internazionale
• Lyon
• Liverpool
• Marseille
• Sporting CP
• PSV Eindhoven
• Tottenham Hotspur
• Bayer Leverkusen
• Bordeaux
• Twente
• Stuttgart
• Basel
• Metalist Kharkiv
• Panathinaikos
• Athletic Bilbao
• Copenhagen
• Fenerbahçe
• Rubin Kazan
• Napoli
• Udinese
• Club Brugge
• Hapoel Tel Aviv
• Hannover 96
• Lazio
• Steaua București
• Sparta Prague
• Rosenborg
• Saudi Sportswashing Machine
• Young Boys
• Levante
• Borussia Mönchengladbach
• Partizan
• Viktoria Plzeň
• Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
• Helsingborg
• Rapid Wien
• Académica
• Anzhi Makhachkal
• Maribor
• AIK
• AEL Limassol
• Ironi Kiryat Shmona
• Molde
• Videoton
• Neftchi Baku

I'd say the EL now is easier to win that the 86/87 UC, it had Maradonna in it for a start

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T Champions League

We can compare it contextually - no problem

Name and shame

Back in the day more players would be playing in their domestic league, hence the teams from smaller leagues were stronger than they are today. They've started to compensate by importing players from Africa and South America, but many leagues are much weaker than they used to be.

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: O/T Champions League

Back in the day more players would be playing in their domestic league, hence the teams from smaller leagues were stronger than they are today. They've started to compensate by importing players from Africa and South America, but many leagues are much weaker than they used to be.

I beg to differ - simply compare how many Eastern European teams have featured in the CL/EL lately, their overall progression and mean coefficient

There were isolated powerhouses in the Balkans and some in the rest of the Eastern Block but the overall 'quality' standard is definitely higher today by the infux of foreigners as you already mentioned.

 

[Eriktheviking]

Re: O/T Champions League

Dunno, I think this is half the problem. It will always be the 2nd trophy. The CWC, Uefa and European Cup were all prestigious trophies with a combination of all the top teams in Europe. Now all the top teams are in the CL, full stop. So this just seems like a logical progression. I'd just rather go back to the way it was but it is not going to happen.

But the aformentioned trophies were only seen as great competitions because the european cup was only the league winners so great teams made up the other comps. If anything, the way to make the EL better is to shrink the CL to only league winners and runners up. The rest go into UEFA cup

 

[mudshark]

Re: O/T Champions League

That's why I don't really want a group stage. Unseeded draws all the way, or at least most of the way. Over two legs these smaller teams might stand a chance. An upset in the first leg would at least set up an interesting return fixture. In a group stage it's much harder to go through. They need one of the big teams to screw up really.

Which, of course, is why they'd never return to an all-knockout format. The whole competition is geared towards ensuring, as far as possible, that only teams from the preferred shortlist participate from the quarters onwards, because only that achieves the dual aim of guaranteed security for the TV companies buying the rights and the pacification of the richest clubs threatening to take their ball away and create a breakaway league. If they do expand the CL and scrap the 2nd-tier competition, you can rest assured the format will be designed to ensure that doesn't change. European nights used to be real occasions, with a glamour all their own, but I couldn't really care less nowadays.