Without wishing to get involved in a mass debate I genuinely don't think we're naturally below Arsenal or Liverpool. Certainly not in terms of man for man.
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Next Spurs manager mega-thread
- Thread starter Billy Nick
- Start date
Without wishing to get involved in a mass debate I genuinely don't think we're naturally below Arsenal or Liverpool. Certainly not in terms of man for man.
you're taking it to an extreme there Milo = 7-10 is well below where our financial outlay dictates where we should be aiming and if a new manager achieves little more than this then questions will need to be asked (only in very a unique situation would i expect to see him show enough of potential to warrant faith whilst finishing 7-10 for 3/4 years)
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milo
Jack L. Jones
OK then. How about 6th - 9th but with a fair gap between 5th and 6th?
im talking more along the lines of financial outlay mate - if you have 6 sides above you who outspend you in transfers/wages then you cannot expect to be above them if they are performing at their best over a season - sure, if you perform close to 100% or the others have bad/transitional seasons then you can surpass them but until the financial outlay is matched (or closed to a small gap) it will only ever be the odd season here and there
Financially maybe yes.
like i said there are too many variables to give a genuine answer.
hypothetically next season with AVB in charge - we finish 8th, have a good run in Europe/domestic cups, show signs of clicking as a team, the morale of the squad is high etc etc then the following season we finish 6th with more of the same building going on within the squad - i would not be expecting the manager to be sacked
milo
Jack L. Jones
I do not think that Levy sees it like that or would be prepared to settle for regular 6th or 7th finishes
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I think regular top six football is a good achievement for us right now, but yes challenging for top four. I am a bit surprised at how quickly the expectations of certain fans have dropped so drastically since the end of the season. A team that should have finished 3rd apparently, and now it's acceptable for them to finish outside the top six. I find that bizarre I must admit.
I personally advocate patience though, and IMO we've had a great last three seasons and it was a bit of a mini golden (well silver maybe!) era and I don't think a lot of our fans appreciate that, or appreciated much at the time. It would be very harsh to a judge a new manager against those three years at the moment. It will be a brilliant achievement to match the last three years, let alone better them. In reality I think top six is a good achievement and I'd be happy if we finished 5th next season.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think this is perhaps the most balanced, well-written post I've ever read from you MLK. Agreed.
i would expect Levy to be pushing for us to be making the most out of the tools available - to make sure we are at our best, that we have young players coming through (signings or academy) whose potential takes them above the standard of player we can usually attract - if we make the most of what we have then we can be in contention for 4th with Liverpool/Arsenal (or if any of the big 3 have bad seasons) - sometimes we will finish 4th sometimes we will finish 6th (the odd occasion we could even finish higher) as long as we are in the shake up i think he will be content - that is until the new stadium is here and then our targets will naturally change
Levy himself understands how important the stadium is in order for us to go from 4th-6th to higher - he knows we can't compete with City United and Chelsea financially so IMHO being in the 4th-6th shake up is his minimum requirement.
finishing 6th/7th 4 years on the trot will not indicate progression - as you would be expecting us to be having good seasons and finishing higher from time to time - but finishing say 6th/4th/5th over 3 years would be acceptable, again that's my opinion - there's a quote out there where he says pretty much that he isn't going to risk the finances of the club by chasing effectively only 1 place - so i can only presume that he will not be sacking managers purely for not getting that one place - IF they are showing progression
the team we have is definitely capable of challenging for 4th - this season we should have been more than capable of finishing 3rd - 2 of the 6 teams above us had appalling seasons and Arsenal were the worst they have been for years
milo
Jack L. Jones
I couldn't agree more and I would advocate the fans being patient too.
I blew it: AVB had to admit he messed up at Chelsea to get the Spurs job
Tottenham chiefs needed to hear that Andre Villas-Boas recognised the mistakes he made at the Bridge before making him their new boss
He didn't have what it took to manage Chelsea.
Couldn’t handle the dressing room.
Couldn’t handle the expectations.
Couldn’t even handle the media.
So when Andre Villas-Boas poses for pictures at White Hart Lane next week, addresses Planet Football at large and the Tottenham fans in particular, he has to show how much he has changed in the last 12 months.
It is not just that the Portuguese must demonstrate he is chastened from his nine months at Stamford Bridge.
That is just the necessary starting point, although it is hard to believe even his bruising exit from SW6 will harm Villas-Boas’ extensive sense of his own self-worth.
Conviction, belief and attention to detail make the 34-year-old what he is, what he was at Porto - when he took his own “Invincibles” to a league triumph and Europa League success - and what made him Chelsea’s No 1 choice to replace Carlo Ancelotti this time last summer.
But it was a lack of people skills which caused his ignominious, forced exit, as much as the failure to get his messages across, to transform Roman Abramovich’s vision for a side which resembled “Barcelona in blue”.
Doubtless, Villas-Boas has spent those long, free hours since March on his various motorbikes in the mountains of his homeland - the down-time where he finds his moments of peace - reflecting on what went wrong, how his “three-year” plan disintegrated in the space of seven months.
Returning to London, effectively to the scene of the crime, represents a gamble on both Villas-Boas’ part and that of Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy.
The Spurs board had their doubts over Villas-Boas’ fitness for the task - a wariness which arose from his at times bizarre and self-defeating conduct at Chelsea.
Senior board members wanted to know, before Tottenham even made contact with the Portuguese, that he recognised his errors, had resolved to be different, better, more mature.
And that he could avoid needless, foolish and damaging spats with the media as well.
The messages that came back from his Algarve retreat were loud and clear.
Villas-Boas does accept he was the agent of his own destruction, that he made a tough job tougher, that he was responsible for trying to impose his will too swiftly on a dressing room that was reluctant to follow. Was too set in its ways.
He was not solely responsible for Chelsea’s travails - as Abramovich made clear when he ordered the Chelsea squad to assemble at Cobham for what basically amounted to a dressing-down and final warning, just after AVB cleared his desk and slipped away for the final time on March 4.
But it was Villas-Boas who told Didier Drogba - the man destined to bring Abramovich the trophy he craved most with his final touch of the ball in a Chelsea shirt in Munich last month - that he was no longer good enough to start games for the club.
It was Villas-Boas who alienated Frank Lampard when he accused one of Chelsea’s greatest servants of being selfish, self-obsessed and only interested in his own image and aggrandisement.
And it was Villas-Boas who dropped Ashley Cole and Lampard for the first leg of their Champions League last-16 tie at Napoli, asked Raul Meireles and Ramires to function as the double pivot in midfield, and got it so horribly wrong as the Blues lost 3-1.
Getting into fights from day one was not the right thing to do, even if Villas-Boas believed - and was encouraged to believe - that he was merely carrying out Abramovich’s orders.
Villas-Boas did, in the aftermath of a horror-show 5-3 home loss to Arsenal last October, recognise that his idea of a high, pressing game could not work with a defence orchestrated and led by John Terry - the skipper who was one of the few remaining real supporters by the end.
That Porto model though is the game he will try to get Spurs to play - but perhaps with players and a dressing room more conducive and open to his technical, detailed (occasionally over-complicated), dossier-driven approach.
The news that Gareth Bale has signed a four-year deal, with Icelandic midfielder Gylfi Sigurdsson, superb on loan at Swansea, set to arrive from Hoffenheim - even if Luka Modric’s future is less certain - will be a massive boost for the Spurs fans.
The White Hart Lane faithful are still doubting the wisdom of sacking Harry Redknapp, the man responsible for three straight top-five finishes for the first time since Bill Nicholson was manager.
What might help is a simple act of geography.
Villas-Boas will be walking into what is, quite literally, a new dressing room environment, where the players do not even have their favourite spots to get changed in and relax.
Next month, Spurs will open a new ?30million state-of-the-art training base near Enfield - 10 miles round the M25 from their current HQ in Chigwell, Essex.
For everyone, including the new manager, it will be a walk into the unknown, a chance to stake out territory.
Villas-Boas will not be intruding on a private sanctuary equipped with the kind of hidden crevices and corners that players always find to mope and moan.
But he does have to show the faith of Levy is justified.
That he has learned.
That he can lead by imploration and explanation, not by just telling players to do what he tells them.
Many will argue that Villas-Boas does not deserve a second chance.
In truth, he does. But he has to take it.
This is a three-year plan he must see through.
He has to demonstrate he has matured, returned a better man, a better manager.
Because there will not be a third chance.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/next-tottenham-manager-andre-villas-boas-942273
Tottenham chiefs needed to hear that Andre Villas-Boas recognised the mistakes he made at the Bridge before making him their new boss
He didn't have what it took to manage Chelsea.
Couldn’t handle the dressing room.
Couldn’t handle the expectations.
Couldn’t even handle the media.
So when Andre Villas-Boas poses for pictures at White Hart Lane next week, addresses Planet Football at large and the Tottenham fans in particular, he has to show how much he has changed in the last 12 months.
It is not just that the Portuguese must demonstrate he is chastened from his nine months at Stamford Bridge.
That is just the necessary starting point, although it is hard to believe even his bruising exit from SW6 will harm Villas-Boas’ extensive sense of his own self-worth.
Conviction, belief and attention to detail make the 34-year-old what he is, what he was at Porto - when he took his own “Invincibles” to a league triumph and Europa League success - and what made him Chelsea’s No 1 choice to replace Carlo Ancelotti this time last summer.
But it was a lack of people skills which caused his ignominious, forced exit, as much as the failure to get his messages across, to transform Roman Abramovich’s vision for a side which resembled “Barcelona in blue”.
Doubtless, Villas-Boas has spent those long, free hours since March on his various motorbikes in the mountains of his homeland - the down-time where he finds his moments of peace - reflecting on what went wrong, how his “three-year” plan disintegrated in the space of seven months.
Returning to London, effectively to the scene of the crime, represents a gamble on both Villas-Boas’ part and that of Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy.
The Spurs board had their doubts over Villas-Boas’ fitness for the task - a wariness which arose from his at times bizarre and self-defeating conduct at Chelsea.
Senior board members wanted to know, before Tottenham even made contact with the Portuguese, that he recognised his errors, had resolved to be different, better, more mature.
And that he could avoid needless, foolish and damaging spats with the media as well.
The messages that came back from his Algarve retreat were loud and clear.
Villas-Boas does accept he was the agent of his own destruction, that he made a tough job tougher, that he was responsible for trying to impose his will too swiftly on a dressing room that was reluctant to follow. Was too set in its ways.
He was not solely responsible for Chelsea’s travails - as Abramovich made clear when he ordered the Chelsea squad to assemble at Cobham for what basically amounted to a dressing-down and final warning, just after AVB cleared his desk and slipped away for the final time on March 4.
But it was Villas-Boas who told Didier Drogba - the man destined to bring Abramovich the trophy he craved most with his final touch of the ball in a Chelsea shirt in Munich last month - that he was no longer good enough to start games for the club.
It was Villas-Boas who alienated Frank Lampard when he accused one of Chelsea’s greatest servants of being selfish, self-obsessed and only interested in his own image and aggrandisement.
And it was Villas-Boas who dropped Ashley Cole and Lampard for the first leg of their Champions League last-16 tie at Napoli, asked Raul Meireles and Ramires to function as the double pivot in midfield, and got it so horribly wrong as the Blues lost 3-1.
Getting into fights from day one was not the right thing to do, even if Villas-Boas believed - and was encouraged to believe - that he was merely carrying out Abramovich’s orders.
Villas-Boas did, in the aftermath of a horror-show 5-3 home loss to Arsenal last October, recognise that his idea of a high, pressing game could not work with a defence orchestrated and led by John Terry - the skipper who was one of the few remaining real supporters by the end.
That Porto model though is the game he will try to get Spurs to play - but perhaps with players and a dressing room more conducive and open to his technical, detailed (occasionally over-complicated), dossier-driven approach.
The news that Gareth Bale has signed a four-year deal, with Icelandic midfielder Gylfi Sigurdsson, superb on loan at Swansea, set to arrive from Hoffenheim - even if Luka Modric’s future is less certain - will be a massive boost for the Spurs fans.
The White Hart Lane faithful are still doubting the wisdom of sacking Harry Redknapp, the man responsible for three straight top-five finishes for the first time since Bill Nicholson was manager.
What might help is a simple act of geography.
Villas-Boas will be walking into what is, quite literally, a new dressing room environment, where the players do not even have their favourite spots to get changed in and relax.
Next month, Spurs will open a new ?30million state-of-the-art training base near Enfield - 10 miles round the M25 from their current HQ in Chigwell, Essex.
For everyone, including the new manager, it will be a walk into the unknown, a chance to stake out territory.
Villas-Boas will not be intruding on a private sanctuary equipped with the kind of hidden crevices and corners that players always find to mope and moan.
But he does have to show the faith of Levy is justified.
That he has learned.
That he can lead by imploration and explanation, not by just telling players to do what he tells them.
Many will argue that Villas-Boas does not deserve a second chance.
In truth, he does. But he has to take it.
This is a three-year plan he must see through.
He has to demonstrate he has matured, returned a better man, a better manager.
Because there will not be a third chance.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/next-tottenham-manager-andre-villas-boas-942273
AVB's A-OK: Tottenham all set to name Chelsea flop as their new boss
Villas-Boas is poised to sign a three-year deal next week and will get major backing in the market as Spurs aim for Champions League return
Tottenham's boss-in-waiting Andre Villas-Boas has been handed a major boost with the news that Gareth Bale has signed a new ?75,000-a-week, four-year contract with the club.
Villas-Boas is all set to be named as Harry Redknapp's successor within days, and will find that despite being a target for Barcelona, Inter Milan and Real Madrid, Welsh flier Bale has now committed himself to Spurs until 2016.
He said: "Tottenham is progressing and I want to be a part of that. I want to get back into the Champions League."
Bale put pen to paper as Villas-Boas made it clear to Spurs that he wants to fill the sacked Redknapp's shoes.
He is negotiating a three-year contract to take charge.
Villas-Boas has already asked for assistants Jose Mario Rocha and Daniel Sousato, who worked under him at Chelsea last season, to join him at the club.
He will be given a big transfer kitty to rebuild this summer.
It is understood that Sunday - July 1 - is the earliest AVB can take over, because Chelsea insisted on including a clause in his severance package stating that he could not take another job in England until then - although he could return to management elsewhere before that deadline.
While Villas-Boas will be delighted to be keeping Bale, he is resigned to losing Luka Modric - even though Spurs chairman Daniel Levy is again prepared to put up a major fight over the Croatia midfielder.
Modric was quoted by Spanish paper Marca as saying he is keen to go to Real Madrid:
"Here (at Spurs) I am no longer able to fulfil my dream. I'm going to play in the Champions League - I want to win this competition."
Levy will demand upwards of ?40m for Modric and has enquired about Real midfielder Lassana Diarra as part of a player-plus-cash deal.
Spurs have been after Diarra for more than two years but Real do not want to let him go.
They are preparing to offer ?30m for Modric, plus Turkish midfielder Nuri Sahin.
Villas-Boas is already looking over the squad he will inherit from Redknapp after last season's fourth-place finish and is enthusiastic about the club's move for Hoffenheim midfielder Gylfi Sigurdsson, although Liverpool have not given up signing him themselves
Spurs' move for AVB has to be considered a gamble, as the young coach lasted less than a season at Chelsea following a major fall-out with some of their senior players.
But Tottenham will back the 34-year-old Portuguese with big funds in the transfer market this summer as they try to get back into the Champions League.
In addition, Bale's decision to stay is clear support not only for Villas-Boas but for the way the club is going under Levy following his decision to axe Harry Redknapp earlier this month.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tottenham-manager-andre-villas-boas-942601
Villas-Boas is poised to sign a three-year deal next week and will get major backing in the market as Spurs aim for Champions League return
Tottenham's boss-in-waiting Andre Villas-Boas has been handed a major boost with the news that Gareth Bale has signed a new ?75,000-a-week, four-year contract with the club.
Villas-Boas is all set to be named as Harry Redknapp's successor within days, and will find that despite being a target for Barcelona, Inter Milan and Real Madrid, Welsh flier Bale has now committed himself to Spurs until 2016.
He said: "Tottenham is progressing and I want to be a part of that. I want to get back into the Champions League."
Bale put pen to paper as Villas-Boas made it clear to Spurs that he wants to fill the sacked Redknapp's shoes.
He is negotiating a three-year contract to take charge.
Villas-Boas has already asked for assistants Jose Mario Rocha and Daniel Sousato, who worked under him at Chelsea last season, to join him at the club.
He will be given a big transfer kitty to rebuild this summer.
It is understood that Sunday - July 1 - is the earliest AVB can take over, because Chelsea insisted on including a clause in his severance package stating that he could not take another job in England until then - although he could return to management elsewhere before that deadline.
While Villas-Boas will be delighted to be keeping Bale, he is resigned to losing Luka Modric - even though Spurs chairman Daniel Levy is again prepared to put up a major fight over the Croatia midfielder.
Modric was quoted by Spanish paper Marca as saying he is keen to go to Real Madrid:
"Here (at Spurs) I am no longer able to fulfil my dream. I'm going to play in the Champions League - I want to win this competition."
Levy will demand upwards of ?40m for Modric and has enquired about Real midfielder Lassana Diarra as part of a player-plus-cash deal.
Spurs have been after Diarra for more than two years but Real do not want to let him go.
They are preparing to offer ?30m for Modric, plus Turkish midfielder Nuri Sahin.
Villas-Boas is already looking over the squad he will inherit from Redknapp after last season's fourth-place finish and is enthusiastic about the club's move for Hoffenheim midfielder Gylfi Sigurdsson, although Liverpool have not given up signing him themselves
Spurs' move for AVB has to be considered a gamble, as the young coach lasted less than a season at Chelsea following a major fall-out with some of their senior players.
But Tottenham will back the 34-year-old Portuguese with big funds in the transfer market this summer as they try to get back into the Champions League.
In addition, Bale's decision to stay is clear support not only for Villas-Boas but for the way the club is going under Levy following his decision to axe Harry Redknapp earlier this month.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tottenham-manager-andre-villas-boas-942601
Not likely though is it? Redknapp has built up expectations to a high level and has left behind the players who got us there.
we should have finished 3rd this season - 3 of the teams which are 'above' us had poor season by their standards - which in turn means that our targets naturally are changed as a result. that 6th now becomes 3rd
if the same situation arises in the next season (well the season after as this coming season the manager coming in should be afforded time to acclimatize) where 3 teams who are higher than us in the pecking order have bad seasons then i will be wanting us to over take them - should the teams above us play to their level/standard then yes, 6th is an acceptable finish
judging your performance based solely on a league position, not taking in to account the opposition and what standard they are performing to will not give you an accurate indication of how well you did
finishing 6th with everyone above us playing well - decent season
finishing 6th when those above us under perform - bad season
that's my take on it anyway
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chancer
Gudni Bergsson
Funny, if I were Levy this would be the very first thing I'd have been asking AVB, or finding out about him anyway: the extent of his self-awareness. A very, very important question to have answered satisfactorily before he signs.
Quite.
We already know that AVB can be successful. What we needed to know is that he understands how to react to failure.
If he genuinely has learnt from his time at Chelsea, then we could be getting an even better manager than the one that was so successful at Porto.