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Next Manager?

Jurgen the German said:
I agree with you in theory. I do think however that we have had a squad that should have won something or was certainly capable of winning trophies under Redknapp and then under Poch. We finished no lower than 6th in the last decade. We have lost to United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the last 3 finals we’ve played in. No shame in that but sooner or later you have to beat a big team whether that’s in a 1/4, semi or final and we didn’t turn up when it mattered in big games.
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The times when we had the best chances of winning something were the times that we finished inside the top 4. If we had prioritised winning something and ensured we rested players for the Cup games (as Mourinho did at Man Utd when they won the Europa for example) then it is possible that we would've missed out on the Top 4.

Alternatively if we had a wage bill twice the size (as our rivals for those big trophies have) then we would likely have a bigger, deeper squad of quality that allows us to compete equally across 3 or 4 competitions.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
I agree with you in theory. I do think however that we have had a squad that should have won something or was certainly capable of winning trophies under Redknapp and then under Poch. We finished no lower than 6th in the last decade. We have lost to United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the last 3 finals we’ve played in. No shame in that but sooner or later you have to beat a big team whether that’s in a 1/4, semi or final and we didn’t turn up when it mattered in big games.
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The times when we had the best chances of winning something were the times that we finished inside the top 4. If we had prioritised winning something and ensured we rested players for the Cup games (as Mourinho did at Man Utd when they won the Europa for example) then it is possible that we would've missed out on the Top 4. Alternatively if we had a wage bill twice the size (as our rivals for those big trophies have) then we would likely have a bigger, deeper squad of quality that allows us to compete equally across 3 or 4 competitions.
 
Finney Is Back said:
So is what you are saying that the chairman shouldn't have panicked when the man who had taken the club to 4 CL qualifications in a row and was getting us closer and closer to winning a trophy, had his first blip and was looking unlikely to achieve qualification that season?
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It seems that most can’t get their heads around the fact getting rid of Poch doesn’t mean Levy thought he was doing a bad job. It was clear that Poch was mentally spent, everyone was seeing this well before he was sacked so Levy could probably see it well before everyone else. The guy needed a break, which sadly meant so did we. It doesn’t mean to say Levy panicked, that isn’t in his nature - he has always looked at the long game.....
 
Gazza said:
And? Different clubs have different thoughts and policies.
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And... i think that highlights that what has been achieved previously doesn't count for much if clubs think you are taking them backwards.

There's a lot more names/clubs that i could list where trophies won haven't stopped managers from getting the sack.


I mean little old Leicester sacking the manager that won them them the league is just the most in your face example of that that i could think of (thought it would save the need for further explanation)

Closer to home look at our last two trophy winning managers for a start.
 
harr1984 said:
It seems that most can’t get their heads around the fact getting rid of Poch doesn’t mean Levy thought he was doing a bad job. It was clear that Poch was mentally spent, everyone was seeing this well before he was sacked so Levy could probably see it well before everyone else. The guy needed a break, which sadly meant so did we. It doesn’t mean to say Levy panicked, that isn’t in his nature - he has always looked at the long game.....
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His managerial merry go round would suggest otherwise. But the rest i agree with.
 
billyiddo said:
And... i think that highlights that what has been achieved previously doesn't count for much if clubs think you are taking them backwards. 99.999% of managers get sacked regardless

There's a lot more names/clubs that i could list where trophies won haven't stopped managers from getting the sack. Obvious, Managers also stay in jobs for a long time without winning also.

Closer to home look at our last two trophy winning managers for a start.
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Gazza said:
There are plenty of Successful managers that would fancy a crack at the Arsenal Job. I know they are our rivals but, the premier league, London, average club is appealing. I think they massively flopped in getting arteta with visions of Pep Mk2 or coming good like OGS ... should have gone for Allegri all day long.
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I suspect you're right. I think I recall some on here laughing that it would cost Arsenal a lot of money to sack Arteta (only for those same sort of stories to surface about how much it would cost us to sack Mourinho).

I suspect Arsenal's owners will stick with Arteta for the time being due to the significant sum it will take to get rid of him.

I think I'm probably in the minority on here but I think that (unfortunately) Arteta will probably end up doing OK there. It looks to me as though he is trying to get Arsenal playing in that same sort of style as Emirates Marketing Project and it will take a while for that be be instilled. I have thought that some of their patterns of play have looked quite good when I have seen them and they have a good crop of young players.
 
Gazza said:
And... i think that highlights that what has been achieved previously doesn't count for much if clubs think you are taking them backwards. 99.999% of managers get sacked regardless

There's a lot more names/clubs that i could list where trophies won haven't stopped managers from getting the sack. Obvious, Managers also stay in jobs for a long time without winning also.

Closer to home look at our last two trophy winning managers for a start.
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Someone said they thought the FA Cup win has kept Arteta in the job - i don't think that's the case, and used Raneri as an example of clubs not keeping a manager in the job just because they win a trophy.

I don't really know why you've taken exception to that based on your post above.
 
billyiddo said:
And... i think that highlights that what has been achieved previously doesn't count for much if clubs think you are taking them backwards.

There's a lot more names/clubs that i could list where trophies won haven't stopped managers from getting the sack.


I mean little old Leicester sacking the manager that won them them the league is just the most in your face example of that that i could think of (thought it would save the need for further explanation)

Closer to home look at our last two trophy winning managers for a start.
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I was just about to post the same thing as I read your last line..... Ramos won us the very same trophy that Mourinho has a chance of (though after our game the other week I think it is a slim chance). Ramos was then binned 8 games into the next season. Not only that but our two best players practically went on strike to leave the club to go to CL teams immediately after winning the League Cup.
 
billyiddo said:
Someone said they thought the FA Cup win has kept Arteta in the job - i don't think that's the case, and used Raneri as an example of clubs not keeping a manager in the job just because they win a trophy.

I don't really know why you've taken exception to that based on your post above.
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I didnt.

Just think different clubs have different parameters to sack or hire managers and it is relative to the time or position the club are in. Leicester sacked Ranieri for their own benefit and Arteta stay at arsenal are mutually exclusive. I do not think any comparisons can be made. All clubs operate differently for multiple reasons. Comparing the two is not saying anything.
 
Gazza said:
I didnt.

Just think different clubs have different parameters to sack or hire managers and it is relative to the time or position the club are in. Leicester sacked Ranieri for their own benefit and Arteta stay at arsenal are mutually exclusive. I do not think any comparisons can be made. All clubs operate differently for multiple reasons. Comparing the two is not saying anything.
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Ok.

I think most, if not all clubs are looking forward when deciding on their managers position - if they don't think you can take them forwards then you are on borrowed time no matter how big or how recent the achievements were.

As true for Arsenal and Arteta as it is for Leicester and Ranieri and everyone in between
 
billyiddo said:
Ok.

I think most, if not all clubs are looking forward when deciding on their managers position - if they don't think you can take them forwards then you are on borrowed time no matter how big or how recent the achievements were.

As true for Arsenal and Arteta as it is for Leicester and Ranieri and everyone in between
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And then you have managers like Curbishly, Big Sam, Dyche who will never move the teams forward but will happily try to stay afloat.
 
Gazza said:
And then you have managers like Curbishly, Big Sam, Dyche who will never move the teams forward but will happily try to stay afloat.
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For those sorts of teams staying in the league is usually the best they can hope for. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference.
 
billyiddo said:
For those sorts of teams staying in the league is usually the best they can hope for. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference.
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Thats exactly what im saying, surely you can appreciate im making the point that different clubs have different needs from managers. Some are happy with progress, some are happy to stay afloat, some want titles, some want to avoid relegation. You cannot make assumptions like Leicester and Arsenal being of the same ilk or wanting the same from their managers. It also reflects on chairman temperament, fans pressure, results, and sometimes common sense.
 
Gazza said:
Thats exactly what im saying, surely you can appreciate im making the point that different clubs have different needs from managers. Some are happy with progress, some are happy to stay afloat, some want titles, some want to avoid relegation. You cannot make assumptions like Leicester and Arsenal being of the same ilk or wanting the same from their managers. It also reflects on chairman temperament, fans pressure, results, and sometimes common sense.
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I'm pretty happy drawing parralells between the clubs at the top of the league in this manner thanks.

Until i see some evidence that shows otherwise it seems pretty clear to me that all top clubs appear to be behaving in the same way in this regard.
 
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billyiddo said:
I'm pretty happy drawing parralells between the clubs at the top of the league in this manner thanks
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Simple thinking to assume Leicester and Arsenal are clubs with similar stature or pressures regardless of their current standings. Enjoy.
 
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