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New Stadium and Training Ground - Pg 104 Northumberland Park master plan
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Johnny Ray
Øyvind Leonhardsen
Don't know why people still seem to think there's going to be an increase. The meeting agenda posted a couple pages back clearly states that there are no plans to change the stadium plans and capacity of those that were approved at 56k.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Nutter-Naylor
Anthony Gardner
Nutter-Naylor
Anthony Gardner
Nicked from thefighting****.co.uk
Quite a nice summary of the latest developments
I have now managed a speed read of the 3 applications before the planning sub-committee on Mon 13 Feb at 7pm. DonÔÇÖt forget the meeting is to WebCast for those interested.
First up from Spurs interest is to be a review of the S106 expenditure agreed and placed on THFC at the last Application. This came to ?ú16.45m plus unspecified costs, which would have taken the cost beyond ?ú20m, since the original approval an additional cost of ?ú440kwas added to the package. All the specified costs apart from approx ?ú400k have been wiped out and are now being dealt with by the Mayor and/or Haringey council and Tfl.. The unspecified costs are still being borne by Spurs, but this is in reality a saving of ?ú16.5m to the club. The type of unspecified costing being left to the club is e.g. footfall surveys. The Club state that even with the increased capacity that of the number of people making the journey to WHL for matches that 77% journeys will be by foot i.e. non car/coach etc. Spurs are to pay for an survey on completion of phase 2 to prove the % figure is met for 5 consecutive years or else make a financial contribution towards the improvement of public transport ÔÇô cost unspecified.
The argument here and supported by the Council Planning Officers, is that the scheme as approved now has a funding gap and is not financially viable anymore, and these re-submissions are to make the NDP viable. The NDP is to act as a catalyst for further regeneration in a wider area but to receive investor confidence additional public funds is required to make the area and highways more attractive to said investors etc. The NDP is central to much of this, and so has to be made financially viable. The funding gap is explained in detail in paragraphs 4.12 to 4.20 of the S106 submission document.
The Council hired Grant Thornton and BNP Paribas to independently check/audit the figures presented by Spurs. Grant Thornton audit of the whole NDP scheme came to the conclusion that the previous plan is no longer viable, and that the new application as a whole, has a reasonable prospect of affordability and is deliverable. They are constrained by commercial confidentiality to publically show all the figures/plans provided by Spurs in their report. BNP Paribas looked into the southern development in particular and came to the same conclusion.
The increase housing and commercial space (south), and flexible commercial space (north) will provide an increase to the realisable value to help fund the stadium build. The revised S106 costs will help reduce the cost of the project. Alternative funding e.g. Naming rights will still be required, and the public investment to the area will increase 3rd party investor confidence not only to the Stadium funding (loans/Bonds etc), but also to the wider area.
In south development the flats are increased from 200 to 285 and no hotel (?). All the flats are now to be of 1 or 2 bedrooms and all are to be at Open Market Value i.e. NO affordable housing. The housing mix and no affordable housing go against the London Plan but without this the project is not financially viable, and this is confirmed by BNP Paribas and so has the support of the planning officers ÔÇô otherwise the project is as dead as the Dodo (my words).
The Southern application is for Outline approval only, but even so the Design Panel are not happy with the overall design, stating that it looks unimaginative and that the materials and finishing of the blocks are not of sufficient quality ÔÇô compared to the stadium, and the over-hang looks ugly. They referred to the N5 Stadium and flats as an example of simple yet stylish quality (oh dear!).
The new design does offer a bigger Plaza behind the retained listed buildings (Warmington Hse etc). The podium is reduced in size with the flats now only 30m away instead of 40m, still room for a public space to be utilised and an ice rink the size of a centre circle is to be retained. The was no mention of the ticket booth/pods, but they have disappeared from the plans?
The Northern Development is a FULL Approval application for a large food-store with additional flexible educational, stadium office, show-room cum brand-centre above. The brand-centre is a space where sponsor or clients can show-off or display their wares, but not sell, during matches, exhibitions, conferences etc. The Sky Bar is gone but there is now floors stepped back from each other as they rise in ÔÇÿTÔÇÖ shape. This provides a further 4,415 Sq m of flexible use space.
One again the revised Northern plan is integral in making the whole project viable, but once again the Design panel is not happy as this re-vamp does not inspire confidence with a lack of detail use of the space above the food-store. They also recommend that the supermarket is not started first. The planning officers disagree.
If approved, the programme is as follows:
Phase 1 (North) start Autumn2012 finish 2014
Phase 2 (Stadium) 2013 ÔÇô 2016
Phase 3 (South) 2016 ÔÇô 2019
Conclusion: The revised plans are to:
1. Revise the S106 expenditure to reduce substantially the funding obligation on THFC ÔÇô Mayor Boris to pay Haringey Council ?ú3.5 for related highway work over and above previous agreement.
2. Tfl ÔÇô improve passenger capacity at Tottenham Hale ÔÇô Mayor Boris to provide funding of ?ú3.5 towards this.
3. Increase development value by the addition of increase commercial floor space above food-store in Phase 1, and additional homes and commercial space during phase 3.
4. All housing in Phase 3 to be at Open Market Value not a mix with affordable housing thereby increasing realisable value.
5. Provision of ?ú10.5m public sector funding towards wider area commercial elements related to the NDP for further regeneration therefore increasing investor confidence in the area in general and the NDP in particular.
6. Improved pedestrian link with a boulevardisation of Whitehall Street from a new southern entrance to the WHL station to the new THFC stadium ÔÇô funded by Mayor Boris as agreed.
7. Greater number of non-football events at the new stadium (no figures given)
Lastly, please note the covering letter to the Southern development application states ÔÇÿThe amended southern development is still intended to interlock with the approved stadium and its podium but a series of consequential and other modifications to the stadium and podium will be the subject of a separate applicationÔÇÖ So it looks like there is to be some alteration to the stadium plans after all (increased capacity perhaps?)
You can see various plans/images of the proposed northern development Here:
http://www.planningservices.haringey.go ... ame=424954
and of the southern development:
http://www.planningservices.haringey.go ... ame=425081
Quite a nice summary of the latest developments
I have now managed a speed read of the 3 applications before the planning sub-committee on Mon 13 Feb at 7pm. DonÔÇÖt forget the meeting is to WebCast for those interested.
First up from Spurs interest is to be a review of the S106 expenditure agreed and placed on THFC at the last Application. This came to ?ú16.45m plus unspecified costs, which would have taken the cost beyond ?ú20m, since the original approval an additional cost of ?ú440kwas added to the package. All the specified costs apart from approx ?ú400k have been wiped out and are now being dealt with by the Mayor and/or Haringey council and Tfl.. The unspecified costs are still being borne by Spurs, but this is in reality a saving of ?ú16.5m to the club. The type of unspecified costing being left to the club is e.g. footfall surveys. The Club state that even with the increased capacity that of the number of people making the journey to WHL for matches that 77% journeys will be by foot i.e. non car/coach etc. Spurs are to pay for an survey on completion of phase 2 to prove the % figure is met for 5 consecutive years or else make a financial contribution towards the improvement of public transport ÔÇô cost unspecified.
The argument here and supported by the Council Planning Officers, is that the scheme as approved now has a funding gap and is not financially viable anymore, and these re-submissions are to make the NDP viable. The NDP is to act as a catalyst for further regeneration in a wider area but to receive investor confidence additional public funds is required to make the area and highways more attractive to said investors etc. The NDP is central to much of this, and so has to be made financially viable. The funding gap is explained in detail in paragraphs 4.12 to 4.20 of the S106 submission document.
The Council hired Grant Thornton and BNP Paribas to independently check/audit the figures presented by Spurs. Grant Thornton audit of the whole NDP scheme came to the conclusion that the previous plan is no longer viable, and that the new application as a whole, has a reasonable prospect of affordability and is deliverable. They are constrained by commercial confidentiality to publically show all the figures/plans provided by Spurs in their report. BNP Paribas looked into the southern development in particular and came to the same conclusion.
The increase housing and commercial space (south), and flexible commercial space (north) will provide an increase to the realisable value to help fund the stadium build. The revised S106 costs will help reduce the cost of the project. Alternative funding e.g. Naming rights will still be required, and the public investment to the area will increase 3rd party investor confidence not only to the Stadium funding (loans/Bonds etc), but also to the wider area.
In south development the flats are increased from 200 to 285 and no hotel (?). All the flats are now to be of 1 or 2 bedrooms and all are to be at Open Market Value i.e. NO affordable housing. The housing mix and no affordable housing go against the London Plan but without this the project is not financially viable, and this is confirmed by BNP Paribas and so has the support of the planning officers ÔÇô otherwise the project is as dead as the Dodo (my words).
The Southern application is for Outline approval only, but even so the Design Panel are not happy with the overall design, stating that it looks unimaginative and that the materials and finishing of the blocks are not of sufficient quality ÔÇô compared to the stadium, and the over-hang looks ugly. They referred to the N5 Stadium and flats as an example of simple yet stylish quality (oh dear!).
The new design does offer a bigger Plaza behind the retained listed buildings (Warmington Hse etc). The podium is reduced in size with the flats now only 30m away instead of 40m, still room for a public space to be utilised and an ice rink the size of a centre circle is to be retained. The was no mention of the ticket booth/pods, but they have disappeared from the plans?
The Northern Development is a FULL Approval application for a large food-store with additional flexible educational, stadium office, show-room cum brand-centre above. The brand-centre is a space where sponsor or clients can show-off or display their wares, but not sell, during matches, exhibitions, conferences etc. The Sky Bar is gone but there is now floors stepped back from each other as they rise in ÔÇÿTÔÇÖ shape. This provides a further 4,415 Sq m of flexible use space.
One again the revised Northern plan is integral in making the whole project viable, but once again the Design panel is not happy as this re-vamp does not inspire confidence with a lack of detail use of the space above the food-store. They also recommend that the supermarket is not started first. The planning officers disagree.
If approved, the programme is as follows:
Phase 1 (North) start Autumn2012 finish 2014
Phase 2 (Stadium) 2013 ÔÇô 2016
Phase 3 (South) 2016 ÔÇô 2019
Conclusion: The revised plans are to:
1. Revise the S106 expenditure to reduce substantially the funding obligation on THFC ÔÇô Mayor Boris to pay Haringey Council ?ú3.5 for related highway work over and above previous agreement.
2. Tfl ÔÇô improve passenger capacity at Tottenham Hale ÔÇô Mayor Boris to provide funding of ?ú3.5 towards this.
3. Increase development value by the addition of increase commercial floor space above food-store in Phase 1, and additional homes and commercial space during phase 3.
4. All housing in Phase 3 to be at Open Market Value not a mix with affordable housing thereby increasing realisable value.
5. Provision of ?ú10.5m public sector funding towards wider area commercial elements related to the NDP for further regeneration therefore increasing investor confidence in the area in general and the NDP in particular.
6. Improved pedestrian link with a boulevardisation of Whitehall Street from a new southern entrance to the WHL station to the new THFC stadium ÔÇô funded by Mayor Boris as agreed.
7. Greater number of non-football events at the new stadium (no figures given)
Lastly, please note the covering letter to the Southern development application states ÔÇÿThe amended southern development is still intended to interlock with the approved stadium and its podium but a series of consequential and other modifications to the stadium and podium will be the subject of a separate applicationÔÇÖ So it looks like there is to be some alteration to the stadium plans after all (increased capacity perhaps?)
You can see various plans/images of the proposed northern development Here:
http://www.planningservices.haringey.go ... ame=424954
and of the southern development:
http://www.planningservices.haringey.go ... ame=425081
milo
Jack L. Jones
I've been a guest of corporate hospitality plenty of times too (only once at Spurs though) and most of the people have used public transport in my experience but that is mainly because they are on the lash. That might say more about the people who invite me than anything else.
southstand1882
Mitchell Thomas
Spurs Free School
Being discussed during the Sunday Politics on BBC One HD this afternoon
Tottenham Hotspur in talks to open free school at their new stadium
Michael Gove wrote to Premier League football clubs urging them to back his plans for free schools and academies
Tottenham Hotspur football club is in talks to host a free school at its stadium after Michael Gove, the education secretary, wrote to every Premier League club urging them to back his reforms.
Following the letter from Gove, the club, whose manager Harry Redknapp is on trial for tax evasion, is planning to build a new stadium close to its current ground, White Hart Lane, with space set aside for "educational use".
The club said it had held talks with a number of groups interested in establishing a free school at the stadium but had yet to decide who would take the space in the 56,000-capacity arena.
The development, which was uncovered by the BBC'S Sunday Politics London show, adds a new twist to the controversial free schoolsprogramme.
Gove wrote that he hoped football clubs might meet him to discuss sponsoring an academy or setting up a free school. He said: "It would be possible to ensure that training is incorporated effectively into the school day without disrupting pupils' academic studies."
He added: "Football clubs are pillars of their communities and invest time, money and energy into young people. The work you are doing is having a positive impact on young people's lives. Your experience and drive would be hugely beneficial to children in your local area, who would be inspired by going to a school that their local football club is involved with."
Redknapp and Milan Mandaric, his former boss at Portsmouth Football Club, are accused of colluding to conceal payments of ?ú187,000 in a Monaco bank account. Both deny the charges.
A group of parents and teachers called the Academy of Entrepreneurship and Sporting Excellence (AESE) is campaigning for a free school in Tottenham and has partnered with the charity founded by Lord Harris, owner of Carpetright. The Harris Federation runs 13 academies and is expected to submit plans for the new free school to the Department for Education by the end of the month.
Meanwhile, Tottenham has dropped its campaign to move into the Olympic Stadium in Stratford, and the club is committed to its original plan for a new stadium near White Hart Lane.
A spokesman for the Harris Federation said: "We would certainly look to work closely with Tottenham Hotspur if the free school gets the go-ahead to open, wherever in the area it is located, just as we would wish to partner any major organisation in the areas our schools serve."
Adam Davison, head of community relations at Spurs, told the Sunday Politics London show, which airs today, that the club was exploring its options. He said: "Tottenham Hotspur Football Club believes education has the potential to play an important role in the new stadium redevelopment and could bring great benefit to the wider community.
"The club has been approached by groups and organisations who are interested in exploring the opportunities on the Spurs site but is not endorsing any one proposal at this time and is keen to explore all the options before committing to anyone. All options for education provision will be considered in the context of the club's vision and ethos, community benefit and financial viability."
Being discussed during the Sunday Politics on BBC One HD this afternoon
Tottenham Hotspur in talks to open free school at their new stadium
Michael Gove wrote to Premier League football clubs urging them to back his plans for free schools and academies
Tottenham Hotspur football club is in talks to host a free school at its stadium after Michael Gove, the education secretary, wrote to every Premier League club urging them to back his reforms.
Following the letter from Gove, the club, whose manager Harry Redknapp is on trial for tax evasion, is planning to build a new stadium close to its current ground, White Hart Lane, with space set aside for "educational use".
The club said it had held talks with a number of groups interested in establishing a free school at the stadium but had yet to decide who would take the space in the 56,000-capacity arena.
The development, which was uncovered by the BBC'S Sunday Politics London show, adds a new twist to the controversial free schoolsprogramme.
Gove wrote that he hoped football clubs might meet him to discuss sponsoring an academy or setting up a free school. He said: "It would be possible to ensure that training is incorporated effectively into the school day without disrupting pupils' academic studies."
He added: "Football clubs are pillars of their communities and invest time, money and energy into young people. The work you are doing is having a positive impact on young people's lives. Your experience and drive would be hugely beneficial to children in your local area, who would be inspired by going to a school that their local football club is involved with."
Redknapp and Milan Mandaric, his former boss at Portsmouth Football Club, are accused of colluding to conceal payments of ?ú187,000 in a Monaco bank account. Both deny the charges.
A group of parents and teachers called the Academy of Entrepreneurship and Sporting Excellence (AESE) is campaigning for a free school in Tottenham and has partnered with the charity founded by Lord Harris, owner of Carpetright. The Harris Federation runs 13 academies and is expected to submit plans for the new free school to the Department for Education by the end of the month.
Meanwhile, Tottenham has dropped its campaign to move into the Olympic Stadium in Stratford, and the club is committed to its original plan for a new stadium near White Hart Lane.
A spokesman for the Harris Federation said: "We would certainly look to work closely with Tottenham Hotspur if the free school gets the go-ahead to open, wherever in the area it is located, just as we would wish to partner any major organisation in the areas our schools serve."
Adam Davison, head of community relations at Spurs, told the Sunday Politics London show, which airs today, that the club was exploring its options. He said: "Tottenham Hotspur Football Club believes education has the potential to play an important role in the new stadium redevelopment and could bring great benefit to the wider community.
"The club has been approached by groups and organisations who are interested in exploring the opportunities on the Spurs site but is not endorsing any one proposal at this time and is keen to explore all the options before committing to anyone. All options for education provision will be considered in the context of the club's vision and ethos, community benefit and financial viability."
Johnny Ray
Øyvind Leonhardsen
Hopefully this sudden momentum keeps up. It's getting rather exciting isn't it? I can't wait to just start seeing this being built from the ground up. I remember always passing Wembley when it was being built just imagining what it would eventually be like. As soon as we start seeing the bones of the new ground, it's going to be something else!
Billy Nick
John Piercy
The pitch would have been turned 90 degrees, if we were going to stay where we are, now its all consigned to history....
one of the Mechanical and Engineering firms my employers get their work through have tendered for a section of work apparently - i'll sell my soul to get on the job, even if only for a day pushing a broom around or something ! but hopefully i'll be able to get a proper bit of work there, would be immense to be able to say i played a part in it's construction
Billy Nick
John Piercy
Who is on this Design Panel?? sounds a bit like EH/CABE under another name, some other nosey bar steward.... putting their twopence worth in.
Six months to a year ago, the Supporters Trust had one of their regular meetings with Daniel Levy, Donna Cullen et al. In the Trust's subsequent report of the meeting, it emerged that the club were looking at a "moderate" increase in capacity.
In addition, as Loughton has pointed out, the covering letter for the latest planning application mentions that there will be a further application relating to changes to the podium, the four retained historic buildings and the stadium itself.
Cheers. Kop should definately be South imo....and we should call it The Slope. Ive had enough of whiny scousers this week.
My preference would be to call it the "The Wall" - partly because the walls there will be big walls to either side of the single tier and partly because, hopefully, it will create a wall of noise.
Tottingham81
Garry Brady
Is this just a plan for the club to get their hands on the school site behind the East Stand and build that way?
Then stick a secondary school somewhere on Paxton Road and just put a wall around the listed building?
Pretty good idea if it is!
Then stick a secondary school somewhere on Paxton Road and just put a wall around the listed building?
Pretty good idea if it is!
