Moussa Sissoko

[Maltese Falcon]

The Scape-GOAT

He can't help himself. Eriksen backs off KdB to let him get a cross in. 400% Sissoko's fault.
Brexit? Sissoko. Bridge in Genoa collapsing? Sissoko. 9/11? Sissoko.

Could not have been better put. Amazed that some posters have not sought employment at the White House. They would be perfect for self-serving attempts at "alternative facts" and vile spacegoating of hate objects.

 

[thfcsteff]

As Bol and Scara have said upthread, its not about the formation or even the tactics - its about that specific point.

And at that specific point, Sissoko is at fault.

And I suspect were you to sit with Poch and show him that still and say "But this isnt Sissokos job because of your tactics, right?!" - he would disagree with you.

I also suspect that Poch would look at you and point to at least three other breakdowns which contributed to the moment.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I also suspect that Poch would look at you and point to at least three other breakdowns which contributed to the moment.

I have no doubt. Were we not in the SISSOKO thread we could discuss those, couldnt we?

If you want a wider discussion on the various points at which things went wrong in the build up start something in the match thread maybe?

Either way, to talk about a players contribution, in that players thread, really shouldnt revieve the reactionary nonsense it gets.

 

[scaramanga]

But KWP has eyes on Aguero because guess who has left him drifting? KWP got done, plain and simple. There is nothing else to say there. We can debate Sissoko until page 1000, but the simple fact is if KWP is paying attention, he sees Sterling making that move. If that's on the left-hand side, Rose would not get done by that.

Again, Sissoko could well be tagged for not tracking the runner against Villa, but can you explain to me why Toby is where he is in that phase of play? He is CB whose legs are not what they were and he is caught between KWP and Davo (who is taking one for the team playing as a left-sided CB when he himself isn't) when he simply needed to drop off 5 yards the moment Villa get that ball? I am firmly convinced that right now, the chief issues we have in our concessions revolve around Toby and KWP, our defensive right. And for me, Toby is simply not leading like a senior with his talent and ability should lead. If Verts comes back into the manager's consideration, I'd bench him and play Davo long-term. KWP? I think we need to see him over a dozen games if we want to really figure out whether he will make it with us, but my gut says he won't.

KWP should never have taken Sterling as his man. Defenders are trained to take a man in turn from the ball backwards for a reason - any left over are wider and in a less dangerous area than the central players. It also means you can all stay facing up to the ball without having to turn to mark a player or have them run blind behind you.

If Rose had taken Sterling, as you suggest, Gundogan would have been through on goal, unmarked, somewhere around the penalty spot - the most dangerous place an opposing player can ever be. KWP has to take Gundogan, and Sissoko has to track the next player over - Sterling. It would be acceptable (but wrong) for Sissoko to track Gundogan and give KWP the opportunity to take Sterling but he didn't do that either. For the second game in a row he simply decided not to track a runner when it was clearly his responsibility to do so.

 

[MKSpur]

I believe he has a role to play for us but in games where we expect to dominate possession I think we need to go back to 2 centre mids and Sissoko can come off the bench when the game is stretched and ideally over. Playing him in a 3 takes away an attacking option, nullifies his qualities and feels a little sentimental based on what he produced last season.

 

[thfcsteff]

KWP should never have taken Sterling as his man. Defenders are trained to take a man in turn from the ball backwards for a reason - any left over are wider and in a less dangerous area than the central players. It also means you can all stay facing up to the ball without having to turn to mark a player or have them run blind behind you.

If Rose had taken Sterling, as you suggest, Gundogan would have been through on goal, unmarked, somewhere around the penalty spot - the most dangerous place an opposing player can ever be. KWP has to take Gundogan, and Sissoko has to track the next player over - Sterling. It would be acceptable (but wrong) for Sissoko to track Gundogan and give KWP the opportunity to take Sterling but he didn't do that either. For the second game in a row he simply decided not to track a runner when it was clearly his responsibility to do so.

One thing amidst our discussion...I didn’t suggest Rose should do anything other than what he was doing. What I was saying about Rose is that had that ball come from the other side towards his “stick” he would not allow the player coming in behind a free run and header.

As for the “man wider” rule, Sterling does not fit that model and as such, given that Sterling really IS his man, KWP has to be prepared for him to pop up anywhere around him. I would not expect KWP to track him across the middle, but I do expect him to be aware of what is immediately behind him regardless of what Sissoko did or didn’t do. Ironically, KWP HAD spotted the danger from Sterling and managed to get between him and a tap in to deflect the corner. Sorry. He should’ve been aware he was there.

As I did say earlier in the thread, I didn’t think Sissoko was particularly good first-half at all, which is largely down to position.

 

[scaramanga]

One thing amidst our discussion...I didn’t suggest Rose should do anything other than what he was doing. What I was saying about Rose is that had that ball come from the other side towards his “stick” he would not allow the player coming in behind a free run and header.

As for the “man wider” rule, Sterling does not fit that model and as such, given that Sterling really IS his man, KWP has to be prepared for him to pop up anywhere around him. I would not expect KWP to track him across the middle, but I do expect him to be aware of what is immediately behind him regardless of what Sissoko did or didn’t do. Ironically, KWP HAD spotted the danger from Sterling and managed to get between him and a tap in to deflect the corner. Sorry. He should’ve been aware he was there.

As I did say earlier in the thread, I didn’t think Sissoko was particularly good first-half at all, which is largely down to position.

Sorry, not sure why I wrote Rose, I was talking about KWP.

If KWP had taken Sterling then De Bruyne could just have given the ball to Gundogan for a tap in - a significantly easier one that Sterling had.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Sorry, not sure why I wrote Rose, I was talking about KWP.

If KWP had taken Sterling then De Bruyne could just have given the ball to Gundogan for a tap in - a significantly easier one that Sterling had.

And if my nan had balls she would have been called nannu.

This is the epitome of your efforts to blame Sissoko for every single thing that goes wrong in the team - which seriously I have never understood in someone who seems so rational...

If KdB had given the ball to Gundogan and he scored a tap in then I would be the first one slating Sissoko. But he didn't! He sent over a cross which was headed in by the left winger who was allowed to sprint in completely unmarked by the player who was obviously responsible to mark him.... KWP!!!!!

 

[spasm]

we are all bricks...

 

[thfcsteff]

Yet it was still a cross, at height, from width, from deeper than the edge of the box. No matter how good that cross is, any player at any level just doing the basics stops that goal.

Sorry, not sure why I wrote Rose, I was talking about KWP.

If KWP had taken Sterling then De Bruyne could just have given the ball to Gundogan for a tap in - a significantly easier one that Sterling had.

Thing is though DeBryunne played it first time and superbly; the FB, seeing the shape he has taken on the ball, has to take a quick check to see where his primary man is IMO. KWP did himself. I don’t entirely disagree that Sissoko should’ve done better himself in terms of coverage (as I said before IMO he did not have a good half in that position) but for me, Eriksen has a lot more to answer for as he lazily makes it easy for KdB to check back 5 yards and lose him. I still maintain KWP was done. Collectively, both goals were poor concessions. You know what I think of Toby in these moments too...

 

[papaspur]

I have no doubt. Were we not in the SISSOKO thread we could discuss those, couldnt we?

If you want a wider discussion on the various points at which things went wrong in the build up start something in the match thread maybe?

Either way, to talk about a players contribution, in that players thread, really shouldnt revieve the reactionary nonsense it gets.

I've already said this: where is the critique in the Eriksen thread? The reason we have to talk about this horsebrick here is because this is the "SCAPE-GOAT" thread. Anytime we play like brick, people come here right away to complain etc.
And I have to keep putting this disclaimer here: I don't mind Sissoko getting some heat if he's playing like brick, and I think most of us agree he hasn't been good this season, and fewer might agree that it's partly down to the system we're operating in, and honestly that seems like it could be a good debate.
Taking a laser-focused approach to finding (or assigning) the culprit is categorically agenda-based (and again, this is not directed only at you). This is obvious because when Sissoko did have good games (and there were plenty last season), the usual suspects here generally never gave him any credit or praise and continued to deride him.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The agenda is on the side of the crew who cannot hear any criticism of Sissoko, no matter how valid, without getting incredulous and over reacting.

He made a mistake in the build up to the goal. Its a fact. And its a perfectly valid thing to point out.

Anything else is flavour you are adding to try and muddy that critique as agenda driven flimflam. Which is flimflam.

Incidentally Ive seen plenty of complaints aimed at both Eriksen (on that goal) and Winks (on the other), both of which are also completely valid.

 

[RunTMC]

Sorry, not sure why I wrote Rose, I was talking about KWP.

If KWP had taken Sterling then De Bruyne could just have given the ball to Gundogan for a tap in - a significantly easier one that Sterling had.

Scara, quick hypothetical - If Sissoko and Eriksen were switched around, in other words Sissoko not closing down the cross, who would you assign more blame to in that instance

 

[harr1984]

Quite incredible this is still being discussed We defend as a team, which was evidenced in the Emirates Marketing Project goals as Sissoko,Winks, Eriksen and KWP amongst others made errors during what led to the goals - no individual should be held accountable.

But unsurprisingly it is the Sissoko thread which is at the top of the tree for pointing blame - Partly no doubt because of what Nayim is alluding to about over reacting to any criticism thrown his way. He did mess up, there no denying that - but so did many. Lets just be thankful we came home with a good point and move on.

If Poch and his team have analysed the errors as much as people on here have then we should be confident of a clean sheet against Saudi Sportswashing Machine....

 

[parklane1]

One thing amidst our discussion...I didn’t suggest Rose should do anything other than what he was doing. What I was saying about Rose is that had that ball come from the other side towards his “stick” he would not allow the player coming in behind a free run and header.

.

i do agree with most of your post except the bolded bit, my biggest complaint about Rose is he is always getting caught out by players running in behind him so you saying the opposite is what i disagree with.

KWP has done it as well but seeing as he is still learning the game i will cut him some slack for doing so, alas Rose has always done it and does not seem to learn from it.

 

[papaspur]

The agenda is on the side of the crew who cannot hear any criticism of Sissoko, no matter how valid, without getting incredulous and over reacting.

He made a mistake in the build up to the goal. Its a fact. And its a perfectly valid thing to point out.

Anything else is flavour you are adding to try and muddy that critique as agenda driven flimflam. Which is flimflam.

Incidentally Ive seen plenty of complaints aimed at both Eriksen (on that goal) and Winks (on the other), both of which are also completely valid.

I guess you missed the part where I said Sissoko was not having a great season so far, but that's cool

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I guess you missed the part where I said Sissoko was not having a great season so far, but that's cool

I didnt. But I noticed that regardless of effectively agreeing with the criticism, you still felt compelled to have a pop at "the usual suspects" and accuse them of having an agenda.

Which was the bit I was more interested in pointing out.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

I didnt. But I noticed that regardless of effectively agreeing with the criticism, you still felt compelled to have a pop at "the usual suspects" and accuse them of having an agenda.

Which was the bit I was more interested in pointing out.

You guys may not like being referred to as the usual suspects; doesn't change its veracity... just saying.

A simple look at the title is proof enough.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Incidentally Ive seen plenty of complaints aimed at both Eriksen (on that goal) and Winks (on the other), both of which are also completely valid.

Please feel refer me to the relevant posts in their threads, especially where you, @scaramanga et al criticise either of them for their obvious, and more critical, contribution to either of Emirates Marketing Project's goals.

 

[scaramanga]

Scara, quick hypothetical - If Sissoko and Eriksen were switched around, in other words Sissoko not closing down the cross, who would you assign more blame to in that instance

Eriksen, obviously.

Eriksen was doing what he's supposed to - doubling up on the winger. Sissoko was just standing around trying to scratch his arse and ending up.picking his nose.