Moussa Sissoko

[elltrev]

You should also have noticed that I said upfront - Dembele wasnt amazing at it, and it was often a complaint of mine he held the ball too long.

I just think he was a lot better at it than Sissoko, as was the comparison.

Not my example, as accused, and I even qualified it - as ignored.

Nayim, at this stage how would you rate Sissoko’s overall performance this season? And which other players’ overall performance this season do you think has been better?

And same questions just for Tuesday’s match?

 

[scaramanga]

As a team? Absolutely. As an individual? Only if it works for the team. Dembele never quite consistently got this balance right, and thus he often held the ball far too long, failing to make the killer pass. And whisper it...he even started to lose possession a lot more in his last 12 months with us!

I think that was true of him when he played further forward. Less so when he moved deeper.

 

[the dza]

I think Sissoko has played more like Dembele as time has gone on, he's become our best midfielder at retaining possession when someone is getting tight to him, he's started off quite a few counter-attacks by doing this.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Nayim, at this stage how would you rate Sissoko’s overall performance this season? And which other players’ overall performance this season do you think has been better?

And same questions just for Tuesday’s match?

In which context?

Which player has performed to their absolute best this season? Sissoko, without question. I doubt he has seen form like this his entire life.

Which player has been better for the team this season? Kane, Son, Eriksen, Vertonghen and Alderweireld immediately come to mind as having performed better than Sissoko.

Then Id certainly argue for Winks and Alli as well, though completely accept thats going to be much closer.

Tuesday? Up until Sissoko came - and cruically we changed shape - I dont think anyone covered themselves in glory. Moura ran himself ragged with no success, Rose showed fight, thats about it.

Sissoko played well, added a lot of energy to things and I think the players responded. They also found a foothold in the team with the 4231.

All in all Id say he was probably MOTM for us, cant think of anyone who outshone him. Only Eriksen would come close for me as he grew into things. Though thats on a night where very few players really performed.

 

[elltrev]

In which context?

Which player has performed to their absolute best this season? Sissoko, without question. I doubt he has seen form like this his entire life.

Which player has been better for the team this season? Kane, Son, Eriksen, Vertonghen and Alderweireld immediately come to mind as having performed better than Sissoko.

Then Id certainly argue for Winks and Alli as well, though completely accept thats going to be much closer.

Tuesday? Up until Sissoko came - and cruically we changed shape - I dont think anyone covered themselves in glory. Moura ran himself ragged with no success, Rose showed fight, thats about it.

Sissoko played well, added a lot of energy to things and I think the players responded. They also found a foothold in the team with the 4231.

All in all Id say he was probably MOTM for us, cant think of anyone who outshone him. Only Eriksen would come close for me as he grew into things. Though thats on a night where very few players really performed.

Cheers, I think that’s all pretty fair. Though personally I’d say Sissoko’s definitely been better than Alli across the season. (But that’s probably more about how I rate Alli this season than how I rate Sissoko).

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Cheers, I think that’s all pretty fair. Though personally I’d say Sissoko’s definitely been better than Alli across the season. (But that’s probably more about how I rate Alli this season than how I rate Sissoko).

As I said, Id expect that to be closer.

For me Alli hasnt performed near his best, unlike Sissoko, but has still been a vital (if understated) player this season.

Honestly I feel since the WC where he was excellent and through this season he will have grown a huge amount Could be set for a very big year next year.

 

[tynesidespur]

Dembele was in the top handful of players in Europe's 5 leagues at deep progressions - breaking the press. He's up there with Messi, Modric, Kroos, Rakitic, etc.

He (when fit) was a genuinely elite player and was the difference between teams bring able to press us and not. When he and Dier were our midfield, we never lost a midfield battle - not even when the opposition overloaded. With Dier as the metronome and Dembele as the break we were pretty much unstoppable and it's the best football I've seen this team play for a generation.

Since he left we're not a possession based team any more - we've given up that control in favour of getting the ball to the forwards as quickly as possible and relying on them to work some magic. We're fortunate that we have two top level forwards in Kane and Son, but that doesn't completely cover our midfield issues.

Have a look at the below to see what's happened since we dropped away from the possession-based play we had with a Dembele/Dier axis and the double whammy of what I call the "Sissoko Effect"

Now until recently, we've outperformed our xG - mainly because of our two elite forwards. That won't continue forever (at least, not at the level it has) as we've seen recently.

This article: https://statsbomb.com/2019/04/the-champions-league-underdog-bracket-preview-spurs-v-ajax/
adds some more context around Sissoko's role. I suspect your paragraph above is based on some of the content of that article. I draw some slightly different conclusions to the ones you make above.

You are basically suggesting Sissoko playing is to the detriment of the team and the main reason that our xG average has decreased. In fact the article suggests that Poch has recognised that we can no longer play a high-line and dominate midfield due to Dembele's departure (& to a lesser extent Dier's demise with injuries etc). Instead he has re-designed the team and Sissoko is a key component of that. He is vital in allowing us to progress the ball into the final 3rd and then allowing Dele/Eriksen/Son/Kane to work their triangles to create chances. Without him in there we are playing a mid-block but have less components to get the ball forwards quickly. The result is the sort of mis-mash performances we've seen over the last 10 days against Brighton, West Ham & Ajax.

Dier/Dembele was a superb partnership but Dembele was failing and we've had to make adjustments. You can't stand still in football and hark back to a time when you had the best midfield available. You have to work with the tools you have available and Poch has done that. I'm sorry but Sissoko is part of that and is a massive reason we've got into 3rd place and CL semi-final.

 

[Grays_1890]

Dembele from his peak is a huge loss but the Dembele we let go was nowhere near that level.

He has played 2 games in China, not sure where the season is at the mo there but that seems terrible and justified our move at the time.

Sissoko being compared to Demeble is silly because they are two totally different players, we miss the peak Dembele I agree though.

Sissoko on his own merit has been a very good player for us this season.

 

[SubZero]

In which context?

Which player has performed to their absolute best this season? Sissoko, without question. I doubt he has seen form like this his entire life.

Which player has been better for the team this season? Kane, Son, Eriksen, Vertonghen and Alderweireld immediately come to mind as having performed better than Sissoko.

I think one of the reasons that Sissoko has been so good for us, is that we haven't been able to play the way we do best all season. A lot is due to injuries, but also the way we have changed the players to fit the system rather than the opposite. I have mentioned before that the introduction of Son as a regular starter has changed the way we play. I hate to say it and make no mistake, I love the lad, but it requires us to play differently than we did when we dominated teams, and we aren't very good at the back positions (getting Rose back helps a bit though). Both Son and Kane are instinctive shoot-first forwards, the difference being that Son is best when he creates his own changes, while Kane excels at the end of them. We have players capable of playing an extremely quick simple passing game, moving the play rapidly upfield with Kane as target, which coupled with our (at least formerly) high stamina obliterated 80% of the league. Now Kane has found himself as much the creator as the target, helping moving the ball forward, and we have no other capable target man than him. He cannot make those intelligent runs when he messes around in midfield or on the flanks. Our game has become cumbersome, laboured and more dependant on single player performances and a fair amount of luck again, since our best "hockey assist men" has found themselves playing drawn back midfielders. Both Eriksen and Alli are much better passers than movers of the ball, in fact we only had one great mover of the ball, and he plays in China today. Well, you could argue that Son is a great mover as well, but he is more Bale-esque than Dembele-sque (sque sque).

The mentioned quick-passing instinctive play we had made slower thinkers like Sissoko stand out like an elephant in a pig pen, and I don't think it's a coincidence that his revival came when we were forced to change up things. He plays simple and solid, tighten things up and is just what we need at present. But it infuriates me when I see "lesser" teams having a much more fluid attack, when I know we can do that twice as good. Our quick passing game was just as great as Liverpool's, the only difference being that they have much more pace in attack. It is also much more demanding chasing the ball than moving it, which can explain our tiredness since we lose possession much more often than we used to. I also think this is the main reason that Eriksen's play has suffered, he is one of the world's best quick passers with godly vision, but we have lost movement up front and no one is in the expected positions anymore. If he goes without adequate replacement (and who the hell would that be), I fear we won't even be able to get that beautiful play going again. He is the key to that. This is the way I see it, at least.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

You have to work with the tools you have available and Poch has done that.

This really is the crux of it. And I think how you look at this probably informs how you look at Sissoko.

IMHO this season has been all about making the most of a bad situation. And what Poch has achieved has been nothing short of miraculous.

I absolutely agree Poch has built the side around what Sissoko offers. But not because its the future, or even desirable, but because its all we have.

I dont think he wants the team to play this way. I dont think if given a blank slate he will draw a Sissoko shaped player as the key to his midfield.

I just think he has been given a set of constraints and this is the best he can do with it.

I would be utterly amazed if we went into next season playing a similar way and with Sissoko as the main man in midfield.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think one of the reasons that Sissoko has been so good for us, is that we haven't been able to play the way we do best all season. A lot is due to injuries, but also the way we have changed the players to fit the system rather than the opposite. I have mentioned before that the introduction of Son as a regular starter has changed the way we play. I hate to say it and make no mistake, I love the lad, but it requires us to play differently than we did when we dominated teams, and we aren't very good at the back positions (getting Rose back helps a bit though). Both Son and Kane are instinctive shoot-first forwards, the difference being that Son is best when he creates his own changes, while Kane excels at the end of them. We have players capable of playing an extremely quick simple passing game, moving the play rapidly upfield with Kane as target, which coupled with our (at least formerly) high stamina obliterated 80% of the league. Now Kane has found himself as much the creator as the target, helping moving the ball forward, and we have no other capable target man than him. He cannot make those intelligent runs when he messes around in midfield or on the flanks. Our game has become cumbersome, laboured and more dependant on single player performances and a fair amount of luck again, since our best "hockey assist men" has found themselves playing drawn back midfielders. Both Eriksen and Alli are much better passers of the ball than movers of the ball, in fact we only had one great mover of the ball, and he plays in China today. Well, you could argue that Son is a great mover as well, but he is more Bale-esque than Dembele-sque (sque sque).

The mentioned quick-passing instinctive play we had made slower thinkers like Sissoko stand out like an elephant in a pig pen, and I don't think it's a coincidence that his revival came when we were forced to change up things. He plays simple and solid, tighten things up and is just what we need at present. But it infuriates me when I see "lesser" teams having a much more fluid attack, when I know we can do that twice as good. Our quick passing game was just as great as Liverpool's, the only difference being that they have much more pace in attack. It is also much more demanding chasing the ball than moving it, which can explain our tiredness since we lose possession much more often than we used to. I also think this is the main reason that Eriksen's play has suffered, he is one of the world's best quick passers with godly vision, but we have lost movement up front and no one is in the expected positions anymore. If he goes without adequate replacement (and who the hell would that be), I fear we won't even be able to get that beautiful play going again. He is the key to that. This is the way I see it, at least.

Similar to what Ive tried to allude to in the post above.

This is a wide point than specifically Sissoko, but a combination of (mostly) injuries and absences, players lacking form and lack of options in certain areas of the squad have lead to us having a season of compromise from start to finish.

I dont think we have once been able to play our optimal team and shape.

EVERYTHING has been about getting by, getting a result, and getting to the next game.

The whole season has been compromised, and for Poch to have us in 3rd and the CL Semis despite that is quite frankly incredible (lets not forget stadium issues as well!).

Sissoko playing, being utilised as he has, the more direct style of football, all of it - IMO - is all about muddling through. I dont believe it is by design, as in - I dont believe this is a view of the future.

I think the summer will see some key moves (in and out), and hopefully see some proper R&R for the players, and when we return in August we will look like a very different side.


EDIT: Also, as you mention Liverpool - watching them last night I couldnt help thinking Sissoko would be absolutely brilliant for them and the way they play.

 

[SubZero]

Similar to what Ive tried to allude to in the post above.

This is a wide point than specifically Sissoko, but a combination of (mostly) injuries and absences, players lacking form and lack of options in certain areas of the squad have lead to us having a season of compromise from start to finish.

I dont think we have once been able to play our optimal team and shape.

EVERYTHING has been about getting by, getting a result, and getting to the next game.

The whole season has been compromised, and for Poch to have us in 3rd and the CL Semis despite that is quite frankly incredible (lets not forget stadium issues as well!).

Sissoko playing, being utilised as he has, the more direct style of football, all of it - IMO - is all about muddling through. I dont believe it is by design, as in - I dont believe this is a view of the future.

I think the summer will see some key moves (in and out), and hopefully see some proper R&R for the players, and when we return in August we will look like a very different side.


EDIT: Also, as you mention Liverpool - watching them last night I couldnt help thinking Sissoko would be absolutely brilliant for them and the way they play.

Agree, it's frustrating that we haven't been able to field our best team. Yes we got results, but I cannot truly say I've seen us play really well until Dortmund. And we haven't dominated teams the way we used to, but as you say, hats off to Poch, the team and Lady Luck for getting the job done anyway.

And Liverpool could absolutely use a confident 2019 version of Sissoko. I think his main problem when we played our best, is that everything went by too fast for him, he was so afraid of doing something wrong that he didn't do anything right, was forced to think so fast that he invariably passed backwards, slowed down the attack and/or lost possession. His attempts trying to rectify his mistakes and regain possession made him look even more clueless. And I don't think he picked up the best vibes from the stands either. There can be no argument that he looked really bad.

Now, Liverpool can afford to mainly bypass their midfield because most are so scared of their attack force, and rightly so. But when they face an opponent who are able to take the game to them, their weakness in midfield is showing. They are lacking midfielders who can take control, keep calm, or even has the physical or athletic abilities Sissoko has. But if we had said a year ago that Moussa Sissoko could be any kind of solution against Barcelona, we would have been locked up!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Ha!

I think of Sissoko for us as a square peg for a round hole. His attributes just arent compatible with how we play (ideally).

Liverpool, the 100mph charge up and down style? I think he would suit them wonderfully.

Not sure Id say he would be a solution for them last night, but if I were Klopp and saw Henderson and Sissoko on the bench - I wouldnt be putting Henderson on....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Similar to what Ive tried to allude to in the post above.

This is a wide point than specifically Sissoko, but a combination of (mostly) injuries and absences, players lacking form and lack of options in certain areas of the squad have lead to us having a season of compromise from start to finish.

I dont think we have once been able to play our optimal team and shape.

EVERYTHING has been about getting by, getting a result, and getting to the next game.

The whole season has been compromised, and for Poch to have us in 3rd and the CL Semis despite that is quite frankly incredible (lets not forget stadium issues as well!).

Sissoko playing, being utilised as he has, the more direct style of football, all of it - IMO - is all about muddling through. I dont believe it is by design, as in - I dont believe this is a view of the future.

I think the summer will see some key moves (in and out), and hopefully see some proper R&R for the players, and when we return in August we will look like a very different side.


EDIT: Also, as you mention Liverpool - watching them last night I couldnt help thinking Sissoko would be absolutely brilliant for them and the way they play.

I thought that for the most part Liverpool were fantastic last night (despite the result). If Sissoko would be perfect for them then I'm up for us keeping him and changing our style to become more like them!

 

[NoLimits01]

I thought that for the most part Liverpool were fantastic last night (despite the result). If Sissoko would be perfect for them then I'm up for us keeping him and changing our style to become more like them!

Yeah lets sell Eriksen, Kane, Moura, Winks and Ali and buy some speed merchants with Sissoko holding it all together in the middle.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I thought that for the most part Liverpool were fantastic last night (despite the result). If Sissoko would be perfect for them then I'm up for us keeping him and changing our style to become more like them!

I dont think Liverpool were, to be honest.

Cant fault them for effort, and they psycho rush certainly had Barca on the ropes for a while, but over the game intelligence and quality won out in the end (imo).

Aside from which, its a horses for course thing - and I have you down as a much smarter poster as not recognising that, nor not recognising the idea of emulating Liverpool to justify keeping Sissoko as something of a fool errand. I suspect japes are being had

 

[Finney Is Back]

I dont think Liverpool were, to be honest.

Cant fault them for effort, and they psycho rush certainly had Barca on the ropes for a while, but over the game intelligence and quality won out in the end (imo).

Aside from which, its a horses for course thing - and I have you down as a much smarter poster as not recognising that, nor not recognising the idea of emulating Liverpool to justify keeping Sissoko as something of a fool errand. I suspect japes are being had

It was tongue in cheek I admit. That being said I really do think that Liverpool were very good last night (up until they went 2-0 down anyway, when they then went too gung-ho). I don't think I have previously seen a team play the game in Barcelona's half like Liverpool did for much of last night. After about 15 minutes of the second half the Barca fans were whistling their own team as they just couldn't keep any possession of the ball and I'm not sure that has ever happened to them.

I have previously commented on numerous occasions about the way that Liverpool play and their long balls up to their front three, but I don't think they played like that last night at all. I thought Liverpool played good football last night from defence and out through their midfield. The only real difference between the teams in the first half was Saurez taking his reasonably difficult chance while Mane didn't do the same with his. It was Liverpool who then had the better possession and created the better chances up to the point that Barcelona got their break away second goal. Barcelona got the rub of the green last night IMO, they could just as easily have lost or drawn that game.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

It was tongue in cheek I admit. That being said I really do think that Liverpool were very good last night (up until they went 2-0 down anyway, when they then went too gung-ho). I don't think I have previously seen a team play the game in Barcelona's half like Liverpool did for much of last night. After about 15 minutes of the second half the Barca fans were whistling their own team as they just couldn't keep any possession of the ball and I'm not sure that has ever happened to them.

I have previously commented on numerous occasions about the way that Liverpool play and their long balls up to their front three, but I don't think they played like that last night at all. I thought Liverpool played good football last night from defence and out through their midfield. The only real difference between the teams in the first half was Saurez taking his reasonably difficult chance while Mane didn't do the same with his. It was Liverpool who then had the better possession and created the better chances up to the point that Barcelona got their break away second goal. Barcelona got the rub of the green last night IMO, they could just as easily have lost or drawn that game.

Its a game of opinions, isnt it?

I think Liverpool gave it all they had, had Barca worried for a while, then Barca out thought them and won with relative ease.

Of course they rode their luck at times, but the result was probably about right.

Liverpool didnt throw endless long balls as they so often do, but they still did their hyperactive-everything-is-at-full-speed thing and predictably ran out of steam and ideas once Barca sat deep, took stock, and adjusted.

By no means do I think Barca were especially good last night, they were certainly rocking for a while, but I think ultimately their quality showed.

It was like a boxing match, where in the opening rounds the young up and comer throws all the punches, while the wiley old pro absorbs them and gets his measure, and the in the later rounds the young lad has punched himself out and doesnt know what else to do at this point (having not won already) while the old pro lands a few measured hits and takes the win...

 

[Finney Is Back]

Its a game of opinions, isnt it?

I think Liverpool gave it all they had, had Barca worried for a while, then Barca out thought them and won with relative ease.

Of course they rode their luck at times, but the result was probably about right.

Liverpool didnt throw endless long balls as they so often do, but they still did their hyperactive-everything-is-at-full-speed thing and predictably ran out of steam and ideas once Barca sat deep, took stock, and adjusted.

By no means do I think Barca were especially good last night, they were certainly rocking for a while, but I think ultimately their quality showed.

It was like a boxing match, where in the opening rounds the young up and comer throws all the punches, while the wiley old pro absorbs them and gets his measure, and the in the later rounds the young lad has punched himself out and doesnt know what else to do at this point (having not won already) while the old pro lands a few measured hits and takes the win...

I'm not sure that Liverpool 'ran out of steam and ideas'. They just didn't take the chances that they created and while the 3-0 result might indicate that Barcelona won with relative ease, I don't think the result was representative of the football on the night. I doubt teams ever have as many touches in the Barcelona penalty area as Liverpool had last night?

Of course in the end Barcelona could easily have had 4 or 5 goals with their late break-aways, but I think that came because Liverpool got more and more desperate for an away goal after Barcelona first went 2-0 up on the break and then 3-0 up via an incredible free-kick that no other player on the pitch could've scored, with Liverpool then starting to commit far too many men forward as they attacked. Had Liverpool got the equalising goal their play deserved at 1-0 down then I think they could and would have been more guarded from then on, becoming even more dangerous on the break themselves.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Liverpool threw everything they had at Barca and caught them on their heels a bit. Though in truth despite all the huff and puff it was only down their left they were getting any real joy. As soon as Barca switched out Coutinho for a second RB Liverpool had nothing.

Its a mark of respect they had to do that, Im certainly not trying to discredit Liverpool. Im just saying, what did they really accomplish?

Yes, they had a lot of possession and predominantly through that left side made some headway, but ultimately it amounted to nothing.

Once Barca closed that door they took stock and then picked Liverpool off, if was IMO a masterclass in game management.

Liverpool proabably should have consolidated the 1-0 at this point, but naively chased the away goal(s) which played straight into Barca hands....

As I said, its a game of opinions, isnt it?