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Moussa Sissoko

thfcsteff said:
I'm talking about vibe.
That is a major part of any Poch player.
I remember people creaming for Kovacic, and hoping we didn't go for him because he looks like a bit of an overall clown shoe. We shall see. I am sure if Poch feels he can, he will...
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An intangible asset, and only one of many required to be a top player in a top side.

I certainly agree that being an asshole will be enough to keep you our of the squad, but have to say being the nicest guy ever shouldnt be enough to mean you are a first 11 player.

And it is clear Sissoko has a great attitude and seems popular with the group, no argument from me there.



harr1984 said:
Whilst I dont agree on your opinion of Sissoko's ability/levels of performance I will say your points are fair. If we were to get a top CM that could compliment Winks, then Sissoko would be at worst a great squad player to have who has proven himself to be reliable and an asset to the team along with Dier - would be very happy with those two being backups/rotated if a truly class CM was bought in.

Only issue for me is how likely are we to obtain such a CM? I am dubious as whether we could acquire someone who is a clear step up from what we already have that matches Poch's specifications and our probable financial constraints....
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Thanks, its appreciated.

As to if we can get someone, who the the hell knows!? We havent managed now for two windows. I think its a case of finding the nexus between price/talent/availability/interest in joining/profile etc that looks a lot like a 1/1000 shot...
 
nayenezgani said:
Exactly. @harr1984 how many times have you actually seen N'dombele play? I'm talking full 90 minute performances too.

Sissoko is premier league experienced and in our top five best performers this season. To suggest a young CM from Ligue 1 could replace him immediately is completely wrong IMO.
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At least a handful of times full games plus other bits here and there and he's almost never failed to disappoint. It's not just Ligue 1 he's been doing the business in, he's looked the part in the CL and in particular vs Emirates Marketing Project.

I absolutely get what you and Steff are saying about the hype, and its just my opinion. But having seen Emirates Marketing Project have a bid rejected for him, I can understand why Pep sees him as the ideal Fernadinho replacement. I just think sometimes you see players and you just know they have it and for me he does, his physical attributes are just tailor made for us and the PL in general but I think he's out of reach for us now anyway....
 
harr1984 said:
At least a handful of times full games plus other bits here and there and he's almost never failed to disappoint. It's not just Ligue 1 he's been doing the business in, he's looked the part in the CL and in particular vs Emirates Marketing Project.

I absolutely get what you and Steff are saying about the hype, and its just my opinion. But having seen Emirates Marketing Project have a bid rejected for him, I can understand why Pep sees him as the ideal Fernadinho replacement. I just think sometimes you see players and you just know they have it and for me he does, his physical attributes are just tailor made for us and the PL in general but I think he's out of reach for us now anyway....
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I'll take your word for it and appreciate the reasoned reply. What's a handful of games if you don't mind me asking?

I'm also not sure that 'City are after him so he must be good' is strong reasoning. fudge knows what their motivations for signing players are.

The idea of demoting or even discarding a player that Poch and his staff have put so much work into and completely transformed really troubles me.

What message does it send to the rest of the squad? You're disposable no matter how much you progress and how much you improve? It would be a big mistake in my mind.
 
JerusalemMan said:
And CD assuming someone offers the release clause for Alderweireld and backs it up with an attractive enough financial offer to the man for him to accept.
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Quite possibly will be the case, but that goes for any of our established quality. As it stands, all things being equal, CM and fullbacks offer our easiest route to improvement.
 
nayenezgani said:
I'll take your word for it and appreciate the reasoned reply. What's a handful of games if you don't mind me asking?

I'm also not sure that 'City are after him so he must be good' is strong reasoning. fudge knows what their motivations for signing players are.

The idea of demoting or even discarding a player that Poch and his staff have put so much work into and completely transformed really troubles me.

What message does it send to the rest of the squad? You're disposable no matter how much you progress and how much you improve? It would be a big mistake in my mind.
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I'd say 6 or 7 I've seen him the whole game. I think he's the real deal, but you're right - just because City want him doesnt automatically mean he's great at all.

I agree re Sissoko, and I don't think he'll be going anywhere. I've always stuck up for him from the beginning, and have enjoyed his development and growth in confidence. IF we were to acquire a real top CM, then Sissoko would probably become more of a squad player than a starter but with the number of games and injuries we have anyway that is no bad thing.....
 
thfcsteff said:
I'm talking about vibe.
That is a major part of any Poch player.
I remember people creaming for Kovacic, and hoping we didn't go for him because he looks like a bit of an overall clown shoe. We shall see. I am sure if Poch feels he can, he will...
Click to expand...

Said this in the PL thread but I think a big part of Chelsea's struggles have been because they've signed players like Kovacic while not building a culture and a base of performance around the people that will be really bought into it. You've got players like Loftus-Cheek and Hudson-Odoi not getting a game, players like Drinkwater not involved at all, and the vibe of the place just feels really off.

Sissoko is someone that really suits the culture of the club that we have created. He isn't going anywhere this summer, and frankly if he is a squad player for a title challenging team, then good for him. We could use another central midfielder for sure, but Sissoko has played his way in to being a player that if he is picked for the biggest, most important games, we trust him. 'Vibe' is not just 'he's a nice guy', it's that he is a perfect representation of the standards and committment to the collective that the staff expect, as well as being a physical specimen allowing us to play our style. Those standards are the reason we are back in 3rd even with no stadium, and without the need to sign anyone, while Arsenal and Chelsea are scrambling around trying to figure out what the hell their identity should be.

We've been able to consolodate this season and I'm confident we push on in the summer. Sissoko is a big part of the success so far and I'm very sure he has his part to play going forward.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Quite possibly will be the case, but that goes for any of our established quality. As it stands, all things being equal, CM and fullbacks offer our easiest route to improvement.
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Indeed. It's just that - as far as we know - Alderweireld is the only one with a release clause this summer meaning that he can leave even if we do not want to sell.
So probably a bit more contingency planning required than, say, for the more hypothetical scenario of a big bid coming in for Eriksen or Alli which we could choose to reject.
 
nayenezgani said:
I'll take your word for it and appreciate the reasoned reply. What's a handful of games if you don't mind me asking?

I'm also not sure that 'City are after him so he must be good' is strong reasoning. fudge knows what their motivations for signing players are.

The idea of demoting or even discarding a player that Poch and his staff have put so much work into and completely transformed really troubles me.

What message does it send to the rest of the squad? You're disposable no matter how much you progress and how much you improve? It would be a big mistake in my mind.
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I like this principle and broadly agree with it but I am sure I remember a very recent interview or press conference with Poch where he talked about having to leave behind players who had got us to where we are, because they have reached their ceiling and different/better players are required to take us on even more.
 
JerusalemMan said:
I like this principle and broadly agree with it but I am sure I remember a very recent interview or press conference with Poch where he talked about having to leave behind players who had got us to where we are, because they have reached their ceiling and different/better players are required to take us on even more.
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Exactly. I dream of the day that Kane is our worst player and gets dropped. That would be incredible!
 
nayenezgani said:
I'll take your word for it and appreciate the reasoned reply. What's a handful of games if you don't mind me asking?

I'm also not sure that 'City are after him so he must be good' is strong reasoning. fudge knows what their motivations for signing players are.

The idea of demoting or even discarding a player that Poch and his staff have put so much work into and completely transformed really troubles me.

What message does it send to the rest of the squad? You're disposable no matter how much you progress and how much you improve? It would be a big mistake in my mind.
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Indeed.
FWIW there was no edge from me, I genuinely do not know enough about him on the pitch.




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I certainly agree that being an Donald Trump will be enough to keep you our of the squad, but have to say being the nicest guy ever shouldnt be enough to mean you are a first 11 player...


We havent managed now for two windows. I think its a case of finding the nexus between price/talent/availability/interest in joining/profile etc that looks a lot like a 1/1000 shot...
Click to expand...

I suspect there is a filter in place as I do not understand the Trump thing? I also note that “first 11 player” has crept in. For the record, I think he is part of a great squad!!!

As for the windows, it is Poch who is fussy. Players have been made available, he has turned them down.

Look, if we were to spend 80 on a Matuidy, that I wouldn’t argue with!!!!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
harr1984 said:
At least a handful of times full games plus other bits here and there and he's almost never failed to disappoint. It's not just Ligue 1 he's been doing the business in, he's looked the part in the CL and in particular vs Emirates Marketing Project.

I absolutely get what you and Steff are saying about the hype, and its just my opinion. But having seen Emirates Marketing Project have a bid rejected for him, I can understand why Pep sees him as the ideal Fernadinho replacement. I just think sometimes you see players and you just know they have it and for me he does, his physical attributes are just tailor made for us and the PL in general but I think he's out of reach for us now anyway....
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He is a hell of a player but IMO if they see him replacing Fernandinho then they are after the wrong player

He is a more a catch and drive type rather a sit deep and foul a lot to break up play... Fernandinho is brilliant at simple effective fouls, and can pass well. He can’t run with the ball and isn’t a great physical player despite his size. Ndombele excels at the latter ones form what I’ve seen of him
 
harr1984 said:
Not quite, probably Son for me. But having played almost every game and almost all of them to a good standard you could argue he’s been our most consistent....
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Yeah that was thoughts in terms of Son as well. He's missed two good chunks of the season with his national team duties.
 
thfcsteff said:
I suspect there is a filter in place as I do not understand the Trump thing? I also note that “first 11 player” has crept in. For the record, I think he is part of a great squad!!!

As for the windows, it is Poch who is fussy. Players have been made available, he has turned them down.

Look, if we were to spend 80 on a Matuidy, that I wouldn’t argue with!!!!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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You would be right, that filter just isnt funny.

"1st 11" hasnt 'crept' in. Its a term Ive used for a while. Because unlike popular belief. I have actually reevaluated my feelings about Sissoko as he has improved. A while back I would have told you he was a Championship/League 1 player. These days I think he is part of the squad. I still dont think he is first team material, I do think when all are fit he is on the bench, but whisper it because thats apparently controversial...
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
You would be right, that filter just isnt funny.

"1st 11" hasnt 'crept' in. Its a term Ive used for a while. Because unlike popular belief. I have actually reevaluated my feelings about Sissoko as he has improved. A while back I would have told you he was a Championship/League 1 player. These days I think he is part of the squad. I still dont think he is first team material, I do think when all are fit he is on the bench, but whisper it because thats apparently controversial...
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Personally I dont see him as any worse than Dier all in all, I rate them both in different ways. But at least it can be agreed at worse we have a solid squad player who has shown great improvement and capability to produce a good level of performance whilst playing a ridiculous amount of games. It should be remembered that everyone was getting rested during the very busy period except him who continuously played until he got injured....
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
You would be right, that filter just isnt funny.

"1st 11" hasnt 'crept' in. Its a term Ive used for a while. Because unlike popular belief. I have actually reevaluated my feelings about Sissoko as he has improved. A while back I would have told you he was a Championship/League 1 player. These days I think he is part of the squad. I still dont think he is first team material, I do think when all are fit he is on the bench, but whisper it because thats apparently controversial...
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Uhh wow. Honestly I think you're a great contributor to this forum, but he's started 30 games this season in all comps. We're just shy of being 2/3 of the way through?

How can you continue to argue that he's only a squad player?
 
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