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Moussa Sissoko

NoLimits01 said:
Come on Thfcsteff, do you really believe that part of the reason we sold Dembele was that he had few assists and created less chances than Sissoko?
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No, that was certainly a bit of a stretch as I know they wanted him off in the summer, so fair call. I would suggest however that had Sissoko not stepped his game up, Poch would’ve kept Dembele until the summer.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
NoLimits01 said:
Genuine question BOL, what is it that Sissoko can do that Eriksen (the player who puts in the most KM’s per fame) can’t off the ball
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Right, let's say you're an opposing Manager. And you're putting your plan in place to beat us this weekend. And let's say we have been playing Eriksen and Skipp as the 2 in a 4-2-3-1. And let's say this opposing Manager has Fellaini in their squad. I think a big part of your strategy is going to be to put Fellaini on Skipp, to exploit the big physical advantage your player has over ours.

This is just one hypothetical example. But the point is you need a mix of attributes in order to be harder to beat, so that the strategy to beat us isn't so obvious and clear. Having Sissoko in the side means if teams think runners from midfield are going to exploit the space we leave behind our high line, it isn't going to be easy because Sissoko is going to track them and not let them through. Having him in the side means if an opponent wants to bully us in midfield, with aggressive mis-matches, they can't.

Eriksen isn't as quick, he isn't as strong, and with respect to an opponent trying to exploit any weakness in our side, he isn't going to be the player to stop an opponent that has a big physical threat. Again, if Sissoko was merely 'good' with his physical attributes, he probably wouldn't be playing for us. But he is excellent. And it means we are harder to beat, because we have less obvious weaknesses. We can be a footballing side that presses high, we can sit deep and counter, we can play nice football through midfield or we can work the opposition into a physical game that leaves them chasing us because we are running into space.

It's not easy to put the plan in place to beat us. Because we are adaptable and because we have balance. Because we have great technical players and great physical ones.
 
thfcsteff said:
Wanyama will be eased OUT of the club in the summer. Unless he enjoys the sort of extraordinary revival of form that Sissoko has this season. Trouble for Victor is, he is crocked a lot of the time these days.
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IMHO a 100% Wanymana is better than a 100% Sissoko. Probably not by much, but for me he is a better player.

That being said - unless his injuries are genuinely behind him it really is a no brainer that Sissoko is the one you would keep of the two.



thfcsteff said:
This is so utterly selective it makes me laugh. I actually cannot believe you wrote it, as if it happens virtually every time. By the way, Dembele had no assists in 28 apps last season, and no "big chances created"... not that stats mean much without context, but thought I'd throw that out there. Sissoko has a couple of assists this season and four "big chances created" in 20 apps this season. Like it or not, I suspect the manager Scara wishes to educate has factored those numbers into his decision to let Dembele go in this winter window having not been able to shift him in the summer.
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People speak in the general, you have to with football. For some reason people then hear in absolutes.

I dont know why.

The situation happens frequently enough that it is a feature of his game. Hence Ive picked up on it and commented on it with an example.

That is not to say it is the only thing he ever does. It is not to deny his good actions. It is simply to point out he does this sort of thing regularly - and I dont actually think its adding any value at all. If anything it is often to our detriment.

This only came up out of the whole "Well he makes loads of runs" argument in favour of him, its something I disagree with.
 
Raziel said:
I'm not sure I understand this thread … to me

- Sissoko has completely surprised everyone by his level, consistency, sheer stamina and stood in admirably when we needed him most.
- All the arguments about if he would be first choice? he's not supposed to be, and if it was up to me, neither is Winks (yet) or Dier

On form, he's put himself on the team sheet. Reality is Sissoko, Dier, Trippier, Davies, Skipp, Foyth, Winks (for now), Aurier, Lucas are all great rotation options, 2nd choice.

If we really want titles/trophies, the FBs and deeper CMs need to be the same quality (or closer to) as Kane/Son/Dele/Toby/Jan/Eriksen
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BURN THE HERETIC!
 
Raziel said:
I'm not sure I understand this thread … to me

- Sissoko has completely surprised everyone by his level, consistency, sheer stamina and stood in admirably when we needed him most.
- All the arguments about if he would be first choice? he's not supposed to be, and if it was up to me, neither is Winks (yet) or Dier

On form, he's put himself on the team sheet. Reality is Sissoko, Dier, Trippier, Davies, Skipp, Foyth, Winks (for now), Aurier, Lucas are all great rotation options, 2nd choice.

If we really want titles/trophies, the FBs and deeper CMs need to be the same quality (or closer to) as Kane/Son/Dele/Toby/Jan/Eriksen
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I doubt we will ever have a team of 11 world class players unless we get a serious injection of cash. Plus not sure that a team of great players necessarily makes the best team anyway. In that respect players like Sissoko may be good enough. For me Winks will be. I don't think we need to replace everyone. However that is not to say we can't or shouldn't improve on some of those players in that list if we can.
 
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BrainOfLevy said:
Right, let's say you're an opposing Manager. And you're putting your plan in place to beat us this weekend. And let's say we have been playing Eriksen and Skipp as the 2 in a 4-2-3-1. And let's say this opposing Manager has Fellaini in their squad. I think a big part of your strategy is going to be to put Fellaini on Skipp, to exploit the big physical advantage your player has over ours.

This is just one hypothetical example. But the point is you need a mix of attributes in order to be harder to beat, so that the strategy to beat us isn't so obvious and clear. Having Sissoko in the side means if teams think runners from midfield are going to exploit the space we leave behind our high line, it isn't going to be easy because Sissoko is going to track them and not let them through. Having him in the side means if an opponent wants to bully us in midfield, with aggressive mis-matches, they can't.

Eriksen isn't as quick, he isn't as strong, and with respect to an opponent trying to exploit any weakness in our side, he isn't going to be the player to stop an opponent that has a big physical threat. Again, if Sissoko was merely 'good' with his physical attributes, he probably wouldn't be playing for us. But he is excellent. And it means we are harder to beat, because we have less obvious weaknesses. We can be a footballing side that presses high, we can sit deep and counter, we can play nice football through midfield or we can work the opposition into a physical game that leaves them chasing us because we are running into space.

It's not easy to put the plan in place to beat us. Because we are adaptable and because we have balance. Because we have great technical players and great physical ones.
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Cheers, thanks for taking the time to explain that, it's good to understand (from both sides) what the poster actually means in some of these "one liners" that are used.

I agree that his physicality does give use something that can't be provided by Winks. Skipp, Eriksen and maybe even to some degree Lamella (and he does like to put himself about a bit) and it will be interesting to see how Poch utilises the 3 physical midfielders (Sissoko, Dier and Wanyama) when/if all are 95+% fit. Personally I think we will see Dier playing for the majority of games with Wanyama and Sissoko being used for rotation or in a special team type role when we need the presence of 2 physical players against the teams that are more interested in kicking our players than the ball
 
Robspur12 said:
I doubt we will ever have a team of 11 world class players unless we get a serious injection of cash. Plus not sure that a team of great players would be the best team anyway. In that respect players like Sissoko may be good enough I don't think we need to replace everyone. However that is not to say we can't or shouldn't improve on some of those players in that list if we can.
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It's not a need for 11 WC players, it's more

- Walker, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele have been replaced (as first team) by Trippier, Davies, Sissoko, Winks, any way you look at it, that is a collective drop in quality (and it's a statement that the team is still improving).

Again, it's more about shifting some of these players to 2nd choice. I don't think you need a WC FB to improve on either Trippier or Davies (Jan as fill in has showed the gap).

I'd actually look at an experienced CM that would help the likes of Winks/Skipp to learn from, without permanently blocking their progress.
 
Raziel said:
It's not a need for 11 WC players, it's more

- Walker, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele have been replaced (as first team) by Trippier, Davies, Sissoko, Winks, any way you look at it, that is a collective drop in quality (and it's a statement that the team is still improving).

Again, it's more about shifting some of these players to 2nd choice. I don't think you need a WC FB to improve on either Trippier or Davies (Jan as fill in has showed the gap).

I'd actually look at an experienced CM that would help the likes of Winks/Skipp to learn from, without permanently blocking their progress.
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I know I am in a minority here but I think Winks is good enough to be a first 11 player in his own right. He and the much improved Sissoko are partly the reason for the fact we have actually improved this season points wise. It would be unfair to suggest otherwise.

That said I completely agree a WC or even highly rated central midfielder would be great for him to learn from. But they are a premium and I think we are struggling to identify one. Hence Sissoko got his chance this season.
 
Robspur12 said:
I know I am in a minority here but I think Winks is good enough to be a first 11 player in his own right. He and the much improved Sissoko are partly the reason for the fact we have actually improved this season points wise. It would be unfair to suggest otherwise.

That said I completely agree a WC or even highly rated central midfielder would be great for him to learn from. But they are a premium and I think we are struggling to identify one. Hence Sissoko got his chance this season.
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Very little disagreement, my view

- Winks is a (full) year/season away from being first 11, he and Sissoko obviously have been playing as that now with reasonable results.
- Yes, hard to find anyone to improve, but if being ruthless, CM & FBs are the place we could invest in.
 
The difference between Sissoko and Wanyama is marginal and Winks is developing into as good a player as Dembele week by week. Its at Fullback our problems have been. Trippier can't defend and Davies can do neither unless he plays as a LCB. Jan showed the value of a decent fullback in the week and look what it did to our performance.
 
Raziel said:
I'm not sure I understand this thread … to me

- Sissoko has completely surprised everyone by his level, consistency, sheer stamina and stood in admirably when we needed him most.
- All the arguments about if he would be first choice? he's not supposed to be, and if it was up to me, neither is Winks (yet) or Dier

On form, he's put himself on the team sheet. Reality is Sissoko, Dier, Trippier, Davies, Skipp, Foyth, Winks (for now), Aurier, Lucas are all great rotation options, 2nd choice.

If we really want titles/trophies, the FBs and deeper CMs need to be the same quality (or closer to) as Kane/Son/Dele/Toby/Jan/Eriksen
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On paper this makes sense. In reality you need players who sacrifice themselves, so that Kane/Son/Dele/Eriksen can perform.
Sissoko is at the required level in terms of sacrifice.
My boy has played for teams/academies who cherry pick the best players. It doesn't work. He's had much better results playing in a team where the team ethic, and other players sacrificing themselves, creates a much better overall result.
For most of you on here, you are witnessing the highest performing spurs team of your lifetime. And Sissoko is a big part of that.
The worst part is you're not appreciating it.
 
Hootnow said:
I don't really think, with all due respect, that Raziel is saying what you've been saying and his opinion would likely be the overwhelming majority opinion on here regarding Sissoko's status on the team.

As it is, I completely agree with every word of his post.
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I really do think, for anyone actually paying attention, its VERY much in line with my POV.

I disagree with him on Winks/Dier, big fan of both, but absolutely agree (and have said countless times) as much as Sissoko has improved (and its been remarkable) we still need to do better than him.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
On paper this makes sense. In reality you need players who sacrifice themselves, so that Kane/Son/Dele/Eriksen can perform.
Sissoko is at the required level in terms of sacrifice.
My boy has played for teams/academies who cherry pick the best players. It doesn't work. He's had much better results playing in a team where the team ethic, and other players sacrificing themselves, creates a much better overall result.
For most of you on here, you are witnessing the highest performing spurs team of your lifetime. And Sissoko is a big part of that.
The worst part is you're not appreciating it.
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It is the best Spurs team of my lifetime, and the Dortmund result is an amazing statement (if you actually read my posts, you would know my appreciation for where these team has come from).

I think you are being too black and white, yes, every team needs a workhorse or two (Poch tends to do the impossible by getting great players to also put in a shift, see Eriksen & Kane). I honestly think the era of "luxury players" is pretty much dead (see Ozil), so its not as much an either or.

I'm not bricking on Sissoko or Winks/Dier, but I am saying, if we had money to invest in summer, it would be an area that I would look for quality in. And again, not saying we need to sell any of those 3, but potentially have them fight more for 1st team action.
 
I think if we had money to spend in the Summer you sell Wanyama and leave yourself with Wink, Sissoko, Dier and one more to make its 4 players into two spots with at least two of them able to cover in other areas if needed too.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I really do think, for anyone actually paying attention, its VERY much in line with my POV.

I disagree with him on Winks/Dier, big fan of both, but absolutely agree (and have said countless times) as much as Sissoko has improved (and its been remarkable) we still need to do better than him.
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What I see, and if I may so, it's a view that is likely to be shared by the overwhelming majority of people on this board, is a poster continually bricking on a player that has played pretty well for us this year. And even the positives that you mention are heavily caveated with "Sissoko is brick" and needs to be replaced.

@Raziel has not singled out Sissoko. He has not suggested he is brick to the extent you have and he accepts Sissoko has done well for us this season. He has not suggested we should get rid of Sissoko but upgrade, if we can, to a world class option and have Sissoko fight for his place as part of rotation. No one would disagree with that view. If you are agreeing with Raziel then that was not clear at all from your posts
 
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