Moussa Sissoko

[BrainOfLevy]

I've nothing against him as a man, it's just that he plays football like Mohammed Diame, charging around and winning it back then shinning it and giving it away then chasing it again... I prefer players with skill on the ball and ball retention.

Actually, I apologise. It is your personal preference and I shouldn’t tell you what you should like in your ideal team. This is fair enough (although I dispute the ‘shinning it’ thing)

 

[Lemonade Money]

I've nothing against him as a man, it's just that he plays football like Mohammed Diame, charging around and winning it back then shinning it and giving it away then chasing it again... I prefer players with skill on the ball and ball retention.

You realise the 90s were full of buys who were skillful but didn't have the balls when push came to shove? We only signed players who played the Tottenham way? Took a certain Mr. Harry Redknapp to point out the bleeding obvious. It might not be pleasing on the eye, but perhaps he allows our skillful players to do their thing?

 

[Baleforce]

You realise the 90s were full of buys who were skillful but didn't have the balls when push came to shove? We only signed players who played the Tottenham way? Took a certain Mr. Harry Redknapp to point out the bleeding obvious. It might not be pleasing on the eye, but perhaps he allows our skillful players to do their thing?

Indeed, he ran out of talent later on but he “fixed” us in a single transfer window to start with, an argument can be made that arsenal started falling apart the second a player in a Spurs shirt, Wilson Palacios, started kicking back.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Maybe the fact that Ferguson didn't let those mistakes last so long is one of the things that made him such a great manager.

#PrayForPoch then? Time must be coming up for him pretty soon given this regular mistake, which he keeps making, which keeps harming our results.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You realise the 90s were full of buys who were skillful but didn't have the balls when push came to shove? We only signed players who played the Tottenham way? Took a certain Mr. Harry Redknapp to point out the bleeding obvious. It might not be pleasing on the eye, but perhaps he allows our skillful players to do their thing?

That's true but one of the players I believe you are referring to (Palacios) wasn't the most gifted on the ball but he was twice the player Sissoko is.

I refuse to believe there isn't a player out there whether it's in another league or country or in our academy that couldn't do Sissoko's job to a much higher standard.

 

[Baleforce]

#PrayForPoch then? Time must be coming up for him pretty soon given this regular mistake, which he keeps making, which keeps harming our results.

That’s the thing, if Sissoko really is the Aly Dia fraud that’s claimed by many, then Poch, Deschamps and every other manager that’s been fooled by him is not a person who should have their player judgement trusted.

 

[Baleforce]

That's true but one of the players I believe you are referring to (Palacios) wasn't the most gifted on the ball but he was twice the player Sissoko is.

I refuse to believe there isn't a player out there whether it's in another league or country or in our academy that couldn't do Sissoko's job to a much higher standard.

I don’t believe that either.

But I do believe we can’t afford them.

 

[billyiddo]

You realise the 90s were full of buys who were skillful but didn't have the balls when push came to shove? We only signed players who played the Tottenham way? Took a certain Mr. Harry Redknapp to point out the bleeding obvious. It might not be pleasing on the eye, but perhaps he allows our skillful players to do their thing?

It's entirely possible to be one if those types of players yet still be able to control and pass a football to a good standard - i don't consider myself to be irrational when it comes to rating our players and I've largely ignored this conversation as it's become so entrenched on both sides that's it's not worth the hassle of getting involved but honestly i think the guy is a poor footballer who can barely do the basics and i scratch my head every time i read this thread and see people so impassioned in their defense of his abilities/performances - he works hard and gives his all so it's not nice to see some of the OTT stuff but as a player he just isn't good enough afaic

 

[BrainOfLevy]

That’s the thing, if Sissoko really is the Aly Dia fraud that’s claimed by many, then Poch, Deschamps and every other manager that’s been fooled by him is not a person who should have their player judgement trusted.

I find it funny that people still want to make the logical leap that Poch is a great manager and yet slate Sissoko like this. Or would rather say that this is his one, glaring mistake, because they say so, despite there being no real drop off in our results, which are extraordinarily good considering how we are overachieving compared to others, with our finance.

If we can’t trust Poch’s judgement here, maybe there are other things we can’t trust him for? Maybe Kane has been too much of a focus, and maybe Janssen would have scored 5 goals more than Kane last season, if only he was given the same number of starts with us? Maybe Son has proven too much of a liability in his one on one finishing, and N’Koudou’s goal against Milan is now showing the glaring error that he would have done way better, if only he wasn’t picking the established international, because he believed there was no one else. Maybe Carter Vickers should never have been loaned out, because well, what’s the difference between him and Sanchez anyway? Defending is defending right? It’s easy to always be at the right place at the right time, maintain concentration, team shape, be physical, make the right decisions. Anyone can do it. And in any case, I prefer my defenders to be able to pass rather than to be able to stop attacks.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It's entirely possible to be one if those types of players yet still be able to control and pass a football to a good standard - i don't consider myself to be irrational when it comes to rating our players and I've largely ignored this conversation as it's become so entrenched on both sides that's it's not worth the hassle of getting involved but honestly i think the guy is a poor footballer who can barely do the basics and i scratch my head every time i read this thread and see people so impassioned in their defense of his abilities/performances - he works hard and gives his all so it's not nice to see some of the OTT stuff but as a player he just isn't good enough afaic

He can control and pass a football to a good standard. He just can. There should be no debate there. He literally can do it. It is a fact. There are better players than him at passing forward, no doubt. But he can do it, and it isn’t some embarrassment watching him try to pass every game.

It’s funny, I’ve not seen one person say ‘what a good pass from Sissoko to release Davies for the first time cross towards the end of the first half’. The distance would almost make it deemed ‘cross-field’ and yet, no one has mentioned it. But loads have people talk about how he can’t do the basics, which is just nonsense.

You get people entrenched Billy because even you, a normally balanced poster who is clearly smart, say that he can’t pass and control a football to a good standard. It is nonsense. It has been nonsense for over a year. It looked true when he first joined, when in those first few games it looked like he had no idea what he was doing and tripping up over himself. Normally, the fans would rally around a player having a hard time like that, without a pre season and operating under massive expectation. Soldado certainly got it. But the collective We didn’t want Sissoko anyway, and Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans don’t like him. So he’s been on the back foot with us ever since.

 

[Baleforce]

I should add Levy to my point above too.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans don’t like him because he left.

 

[billyiddo]

He can control and pass a football to a good standard. He just can. There should be no debate there. He literally can do it. It is a fact. There are better players than him at passing forward, no doubt. But he can do it, and it isn’t some embarrassment watching him try to pass every game.

It’s funny, I’ve not seen one person say ‘what a good pass from Sissoko to release Davies for the first time cross towards the end of the first half’. The distance would almost make it deemed ‘cross-field’ and yet, no one has mentioned it. But loads have people talk about how he can’t do the basics, which is just nonsense.

You get people entrenched Billy because even you, a normally balanced poster who is clearly smart, say that he can’t pass and control a football to a good standard. It is nonsense. It has been nonsense for over a year. It looked true when he first joined, when in those first few games it looked like he had no idea what he was doing and tripping up over himself. Normally, the fans would rally around a player having a hard time like that, without a pre season and operating under massive expectation. Soldado certainly got it. But the collective We didn’t want Sissoko anyway, and Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans don’t like him. So he’s been on the back foot with us ever since.

Capable of doing it on occassion, sure - capable of doing it consistently, to the same degree as his team mates? not from what i see on a game by game basis.

I still see, for the most part, the same player you describe from when he first arrived, slightly better but not by much - someone who passes the ball short/behind the reciever an alarming amount of times when under no pressure and who miscontrols the ball more often than others.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Capable of doing it on occassion, sure - capable of doing it consistently, to the same degree as his team mates? not from what i see on a game by game basis.

Again, nonsense. You have set the bar as ‘controlling and passing’. (As for as I can tell, not penetrative Modric style passing, long range Carrick style, merely passing to team mates) He does it consistently in every game, just like the rest of the team. It is not a debate, it should be there for you to see very easily.

 

[billyiddo]

Yes mate im talking about the basics here, i don't expect to see him play like Modric or Carrick when in possessiom im talking about the times i see him miscontrol the ball under no pressure and make a hash of simple passes to team mates by playing the ball short/behind/ahead of where it needs to be played meaning the reciever is having to check back/over stretch to control the ball losing momentum, happens all the time. I see this, it isn't 'nonsense' im not making it up, i see it every game he plays.

Note i don't mean literally 'all the time', just more so than anyone else by a noticeable amount (although Dier was running him close at times last season and i was far more critical of him for it )

 

[Baleforce]

The club have all the stats for this, Poch has cold hard numbers on every pass and turnover made, if Sissoko is a problem Poch shouldn’t be playing him.

I’m really starting to lose faith in the Argentinian with all this evidence to his glaring lack of understanding the of the game.

 

[billyiddo]

The club have all the stats for this, Poch has cold hard numbers on every pass and turnover made, if Sissoko is a problem Poch shouldn’t be plying him.

I’m really starting to lose faith in the Argentinian with all this evidence to his glaring lack of understanding the of the game.

Perhaps he values the other side of his game, his engine in getting up and down the field and closing off channels more so than he doesn't rate his on the ball ability and thinks it's a worthy sacrifice for the system?

 

[Baleforce]

Perhaps he values the other side of his game, his engine in getting up and down the field and closing off channels more so than he doesn't rate his on the ball ability and thinks it's a worthy sacrifice for the system?

Nah, if that was a thing surely all of the experts in the stands/pubs/internets would appreciate it too.

 

[billyiddo]

Nah, if that was a thing surely all of the experts in the stands/pubs/internets would appreciate it too.

Id imagine for most people watching games casually the frustration of a misplaced pass resonates more than a good piece of off the ball positional play which will largely go unnoticed

 

[Baleforce]

Id imagine for most people watching games casually the frustration of a misplaced pass resonates more than a good piece of off the ball positional play which will largely go unnoticed by the masses

Cadual spelling there too

Yeah, it’s the disconnect between that and accepting Poch and Levy clearly know what they are doing I can’t get my head around.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Yes mate im talking about the basics here, i don't expect to see him play like Modric or Carrick when in possessiom im talking about the times i see him miscontrol the ball under no pressure and make a hash of simple passes to team mates by playing the ball short/behind/ahead of where it needs to be played meaning the reciever is having to check back/over stretch to control the ball losing momentum, happens all the time. I see this, it isn't 'nonsense' im not making it up, i see it every game he plays.

Note i don't mean literally 'all the time', just more so than anyone else by a noticeable amount (although Dier was running him close at times last season and i was far more critical of him for it )

I really think you’re exaggerating how often it (miscontrolling a pass under no pressure and under selling team mates) happens.

I think you have to excuse a creative pass getting intercepted from time to time, and goes for all players, because they are inherently riskier. But under no pressure? Failing to control a pass? It didn’t happen once in the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game. It’s just ridiculous and exactly the kind of outsized criticism he gets ahead of other players.