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Mitt Romney the next new leader of the free world!!!

The current situation is 100% down to republicans blocking ANYTHING Obama wants to do, with the idea that they could get rid of him in 2012.

People need to realise the President has a veto.......but he cannot legislate without congress.

He passed the 2nd bailout and especially the auto bailout.....which saved a million jobs in key swing states.

That will probably be his saviour.

He needs to be aggresive like Biden on Wednesday and I think the election will be his.
 
If you'd asked me a year ago I would have identified myself as such.

But I do believe that we need regulation to stop the worst excesses of man and we need government to level the playing field for all so people have a fair shot at achieving something in their lives, and not just because they are born into the right family.

Ron Paul talks immense amounts of sense, but I wouldn't be comfortable with the market dictating EVERYTHING about our lives.......which is what he advocates.

So maybe Libertarian with a conscience!

Haha, I'm hoping Gary Johnson appeals to the more "pragmatic" of the conservatives and takes away votes for Romney. And honestly, I'm not sure which of Ron Paul or Romney would be worse as president, but the one admirable thing about Ron Paul is that he has values and principles that he sticks to. Obama had such a tough time attacking Romney because he continued his metamorphosis from center-right to extreme-right and back to center-right for the debate.

It's annoying to hear about conservatives saying that the constitution doesn't say anything about separation of church and state, although it's implicit from the founders and their writings at the time.

He needs to be aggresive like Biden on Wednesday and I think the election will be his.

This was a good critique by Matt Taibi of the debate and journalism/media in general. He's written much about the financial crisis and can actually dumb down all of the complicated Wall St. jargon so that even I can understand it (the reason why the financials made these dealings so complicated was to obfuscate the truth).
 
This was a good critique by Matt Taibi of the debate and journalism/media in general. He's written much about the financial crisis and can actually dumb down all of the complicated Wall St. jargon so that even I can understand it (the reason why the financials made these dealings so complicated was to obfuscate the truth).

Well it is true that Romney won the debate as he convinced more people and that is how you rate debates. If you can lie convincingly and your opponent can't counter you win.

I followed a few of the links from there.

Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital. How the GOP presidential candidate and his private equity firm staged an epic wealth grab, destroyed jobs – and stuck others with the bill. How Romney made his capital. This really exposes the lie about Romney the job creator.

The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney. Government documents prove the candidate's mythology is just that. So government spending is not so bad in special cases.

Mitt Romney's Real Agenda. If you want to understand Romney's game plan, just look at what Republicans have been doing in Congress. Probably a biased analysis, but a lot of the scary claims are essentially correct.
 
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He did get healthcare through, but I think you're right in the sense that people wanted Obama to focus solely on the economy. What I would argue is that health care is supposed to tackle our spending problem, but over the long-term.

And that's what our present political quagmire has resulted in: caring only about the present and leaving a mountain to climb for future generations. This is why I think this upcoming election will have significant consequences. And honestly, if you think Romney is the person that will somehow "save us" like he's Mormon Jesus, you really should read up on his Bain record and his methods for extracting companies for every penny they were worth, often after overloading them with debt.

Whenever government gets involved, costs go up and up. If you think Obamacare will save money, you're flat out wrong. Not to mention he conned people with his costing of it, factoring in 10 years of cuts with 6 years of spending and claiming it will save money. The second 10 years will see costs go up.

And you make a good point. He pushed through obamacare and the republicans are punishing him for it. And the reality is that the majority don't want Obama care which will count against him in the election, and if Romney wins (which I think he will if he doesn't get beaten up tonight) he will repeal it and Obama will have literally nothing to show for his 4 years.

As for Bain capital, I haven't read extensively about it but I think its being spun very negatively by the pro-democrat media.
 
If you'd asked me a year ago I would have identified myself as such.

But I do believe that we need regulation to stop the worst excesses of man and we need government to level the playing field for all so people have a fair shot at achieving something in their lives, and not just because they are born into the right family.

Ron Paul talks immense amounts of sense, but I wouldn't be comfortable with the market dictating EVERYTHING about our lives.......which is what he advocates.

So maybe Libertarian with a conscience!

If government could regulate properly I'd agree with you. Alas cronie capitalism is the only result when government gets involved.
 
Obama held the house for half his term. He wasted that time and only has himself to blame

Ha ha, what, because he didn't go Dirty Harry when he had the chance, instead attempting to work WITH everyone? OK mate, whatever...:-"
 
Ha ha, what, because he didn't go Dirty Harry when he had the chance, instead attempting to work WITH everyone? OK mate, whatever...:-"

Work WITH everyone? Obamacare doomed his presidency to the route it took, he turned up and decided to prioritise reforming healthcare over balancing the budget. He took the Republicans head on and won, and they played politics once they got the House back. He would have been warned it would happen but he did it anyway. Perhaps it was worth it if Obamacare sticks, we will have to wait and see.
 
Whenever government gets involved, costs go up and up. If you think Obamacare will save money, you're flat out wrong. Not to mention he conned people with his costing of it, factoring in 10 years of cuts with 6 years of spending and claiming it will save money. The second 10 years will see costs go up.

And you make a good point. He pushed through obamacare and the republicans are punishing him for it. And the reality is that the majority don't want Obama care which will count against him in the election, and if Romney wins (which I think he will if he doesn't get beaten up tonight) he will repeal it and Obama will have literally nothing to show for his 4 years.

As for Bain capital, I haven't read extensively about it but I think its being spun very negatively by the pro-democrat media.

The majority do not understand it. They do not understand healthcare period. Sorry, there are a lot of very easily misinformed people with regards to this issue. If Romney gets in, aside for being an international disaster for America (do NOT be fooled, this man will cause America major, major problems abroad in many ways) it will represent a disaster for anyone who earns less than 200k a year. Even that might not be enough to save people. Unless you actually want to see states pushed to extreme polarized communities, then make no mistake, Romney would be a total and utter disaster.

On another note, I genuinely wish it was possible to force every able-bodied American over the age of 18 to spend just 3 months living abroad/away from the North American continent, just so as they could gauge both the importance and reputation of the US abroad, and thus start to fathom how VITALLY important it is to have people who understand foreign policy in office. Obama is no angel in this regard, but believe me, his predecessor left many of my American mates afraid to admit they were American! Obama managed to undo a lot of bad reputation in a short amount of time...
 
Work WITH everyone? Obamacare doomed his presidency to the route it took, he turned up and decided to prioritise reforming healthcare over balancing the budget. He took the Republicans head on and won, and they played politics once they got the House back. He would have been warned it would happen but he did it anyway. Perhaps it was worth it if Obamacare sticks, we will have to wait and see.

And why did he have to take that route? The republicans are not, and never were, interested in trying to do the best for the country by what the country wants. They simply want to win so as they can force their agenda. Look, neither party paints themselves in glory, but the republicans have a taste for it which is IMO very unhealthy...the saddest thing about Obamacare is that it has finally come in as a vastly watered-down version of what it was designed to be. A result of repeated fighting.
 
Whenever government gets involved, costs go up and up. If you think Obamacare will save money, you're flat out wrong. Not to mention he conned people with his costing of it, factoring in 10 years of cuts with 6 years of spending and claiming it will save money. The second 10 years will see costs go up.

And you make a good point. He pushed through obamacare and the republicans are punishing him for it. And the reality is that the majority don't want Obama care which will count against him in the election, and if Romney wins (which I think he will if he doesn't get beaten up tonight) he will repeal it and Obama will have literally nothing to show for his 4 years.

As for Bain capital, I haven't read extensively about it but I think its being spun very negatively by the pro-democrat media.

You been watching that Fox News again? Only Fox would have the gall to cry out bloody murder with blood on their own hands. The right is convinced that there's liberal media bias. But actually, the truth is that not everyone shares what are actually your extreme-right views. Your party isn't center-right anymore. It's funny that the conservative party being so opposed to change seems to undergo it to the point where I can't even keep track of what the platform is or which issues Mitt actually stands for.

FFS, Fox News is more likely to run a story on virgin births in nature over anything pertaining to climate science and evolution. I'm sorry, but a few studies on climate science that say that it doesn't exist (and funded by the oil industry) doesn't negate the vast body of research that already exists. Even simple trends like having consecutive record-breaking summers don't mean anything. My point here is that if there is a refusal to believe in peer-reviewed SCIENCE, then that party is in the same boat as the people that denied the earth revolved around the sun.

As much as you attack Obama and critique him for things that he hasn't even done, what do you have to offer on Romney's proposed plan to fix the economy? Be specific. Is he or is he not going to add government jobs, through new teachers, policemen and firemen?

Back to Obamacare... are you talking about his $716 billion in savings? The same $716 that Ryan had in his plan?
Read this, then tell me what you think. Besides, the deficit hawks keep calling for cuts, so why complain when you get them?
Overall, Obamacare will save money. This is a long-term approach, so it will take a few years to reap the benefits. However, repealing Obamacare will cost money.

When I think about it, I can understand why healthcare would need to be tackled to help control the deficit. Right now, it's an extremely bloated system with massive looming costs in the next 10-20 years. What Obamacare wants to do is make that system more efficient and at the same time expanding who is eligible before costs go spiraling out of hand. Because more people participate, insurance premiums go down. With looming costs of Medicare threatening to o Of course, I would have preferred single-payer because other countries that do have much lower healthcare costs.

As for Obamacare approval, it's no surprise to me that because the right is constantly running attack ads (most of them singling out Obamacare because it has such a negative reputation despite all the good it does), they are changing the views of voters because in the summer, approval for Obamacare was higher than opposition to it. Obama needed to convince the people more fervently about how much good this legislation does, but it is crippled by the fact that it had to be watered down. Democrats seem capable of compromise, why can't Republicans do the same? That's right, because fixing the nation's problems would make the president look good, and no one wants that guy to look good.

You should read up on Bain. It was an investment firm, and its purpose was not to create jobs, but to make companies run more efficiently (and weighing them down with loads of debt), then selling them on a profit, and ultimately providing investors with a return. So yes, Bain itself made lots of money, but it wasn't a job factory. There was no investment in no new industries creating whole new jobs, but instead just shifting or displacing jobs.

Really, with the internet and large conservative news networks, there's a lot of misinformation out there. Data and facts are very valuable, but there can only be one truth when it comes to numbers. How is it that there is another alternate reality with its own set of facts? A choice to believe some other doctored set of statistics is self-imposed ignorance. Be a bit more cynical about ALL journalists, not just ones from "the other side".
Any number can be massaged to make it mean whatever you want it to, and often-times is so misleading but is still what their constituents want to hear. Chances are Mitt doesn't give a brick about you, unless you make over $250k. He said it himself, and I understand the setting and context in which he said it which only proves that many wealthy Americans don't give a brick about the bottom half of the country. They see three lazy people and think the rest are lazy. And don't get me wrong, there's plenty of lazy people out there, but it's such a small percentage that fixing that problem isn't actually the priority.
 
Just curious, but are the conservatives in Europe mostly religious and socially conservative, or just conservative when it comes to how to run government? Our problem is that we have a) lots of religious folk and b) lots of guns.

As for health-care, I think Obama wanted a single-payer system like the UK and Canada have, but of course what we ended up with is Romney's health care plan from Massachusetts. Single-payer would probably be cheaper for us, but the right
People are so concerned about cutting government, but private insurers are the real bloat, and it's not like they're actually providing anything. A lot of the money paid to insurance is simply to cover its own administrative running costs. I guess if you get fudged privately, conservatives don't care because that's the free market at work.

I've put an image of my political compass below. I'm in my 30s and would consider myself a pretty average Tory voter for my generation. Some of the older generations in this country are more socially right wing but that's fading. There's actually a very strong movement of the younger Conservatives to push to the party towards this style of government - socially centrist but economically right wing.

pcgraphpng.php


http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=4.75&soc=-5.28
 
Whenever government gets involved, costs go up and up. If you think Obamacare will save money, you're flat out wrong. Not to mention he conned people with his costing of it, factoring in 10 years of cuts with 6 years of spending and claiming it will save money. The second 10 years will see costs go up.

And you make a good point. He pushed through obamacare and the republicans are punishing him for it. And the reality is that the majority don't want Obama care which will count against him in the election, and if Romney wins (which I think he will if he doesn't get beaten up tonight) he will repeal it and Obama will have literally nothing to show for his 4 years.

As for Bain capital, I haven't read extensively about it but I think its being spun very negatively by the pro-democrat media.

Hahahahah!!

The NHS is far far far cheaper than the US system with private companies taking the tinkle!!

Healthcare is around 19% of GDP in teh US.

Compared to 6-7% in the UK and 9% in France, which has probably the best system in the world.

The US has the most expensive system in the world, that delivers outcomes worse than most of the other G20 nations.
 
If government could regulate properly I'd agree with you. Alas cronie capitalism is the only result when government gets involved.

No it isn't.

This is not about picking winners......its about creating a framework that puts a level playing field in place and protects the consumer/public from foul play
 
Work WITH everyone? Obamacare doomed his presidency to the route it took, he turned up and decided to prioritise reforming healthcare over balancing the budget. He took the Republicans head on and won, and they played politics once they got the House back. He would have been warned it would happen but he did it anyway. Perhaps it was worth it if Obamacare sticks, we will have to wait and see.

SO it's his fault they are behaving like children?

Right
 
I've put an image of my political compass below. I'm in my 30s and would consider myself a pretty average Tory voter for my generation. Some of the older generations in this country are more socially right wing but that's fading. There's actually a very strong movement of the younger Conservatives to push to the party towards this style of government - socially centrist but economically right wing.

pcgraphpng.php


http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=4.75&soc=-5.28

Probably where I am as well, maybe more interested in social justice than Scara though! :)
 
Leveraged buy outs are always about short term carpet bagging.

Loading a company with short term debt, minimising the risk to the buyers own capital and maximising short term gains on the backs of sacked workers.
 
But I do believe that we need regulation to stop the worst excesses of man....

Taking a leap here, but are you talking about banking when you say that? I make that assumption as that seems to be what everyone is talking about when they talk about regulation to curb excesses. If so, how do you reconcile that with the part of you that believes in market forces?

It's my belief that if governments had got less involved and let the market "do its bit" then there would currently be no banking problem whatsoever. Had banks been allowed to fail then I can guarantee that there would be no banks right now taking excessive risks, and not one would be doing so any time soon either. We'd probably have a (much improved) personal banking sector where the overall risk rating (probably independantly assessed) of depositing money would be balanced against the interest received on that account. Want to keep earning interest at high rates like you did before? Fine - your deposits are used in the more risky sector of the market. Want to ensure that your savings are safe no matter what? Then your deposits are only used for the low-risk ventures or even just kept as cash with all the inflation risks that go with it. You're a bank and you want to continue taking risks? Then you'll probably struggle for customer deposits.

Another likely side effect of this happening would be more shareholder involvement. This is one of the main problems with the current market - shareholders are not taking enough interest in their investments (and neither are pension fund managers representing us) to keep companies in check. A belly up bank or two would ensure that people stung by it would be taking far more interest in what goes on under the hood of the companies in which they invest.

If governments had just kept their grubby noses out of the markets (generally a very good rule) then not only would we have been saddled with the risk of bailing out and increasing the country's risk profile but we would also have let the market do what it does so well.
 
The purpose of the regulation is to let the markets operate freely, not to manipulate them. Even Adam Smith advocated this when he commented that you can't leave businessmen in a room together for five minutes before they start colluding (or something along those lines).

The banking crisis became as severe and widespread as it did because market forces weren't operating. The investments banks were repackaging risk as safe investments, with collusion of the rating agencies, and were rigging the market with distorting practices (rapid trading, naked short selling, etc). The ability to gamble, without taking the full consequences led them to take greater risks and then they had the government to protect them from those. The government guarantees were part of the problem but far from the whole problem.

Agree on the shareholder involvement. Just look at how the Murdoch family have been allowed to control News Corp with a minority share.
 
Taking a leap here, but are you talking about banking when you say that? I make that assumption as that seems to be what everyone is talking about when they talk about regulation to curb excesses. If so, how do you reconcile that with the part of you that believes in market forces?

It's my belief that if governments had got less involved and let the market "do its bit" then there would currently be no banking problem whatsoever. Had banks been allowed to fail then I can guarantee that there would be no banks right now taking excessive risks, and not one would be doing so any time soon either. We'd probably have a (much improved) personal banking sector where the overall risk rating (probably independantly assessed) of depositing money would be balanced against the interest received on that account. Want to keep earning interest at high rates like you did before? Fine - your deposits are used in the more risky sector of the market. Want to ensure that your savings are safe no matter what? Then your deposits are only used for the low-risk ventures or even just kept as cash with all the inflation risks that go with it. You're a bank and you want to continue taking risks? Then you'll probably struggle for customer deposits.

Another likely side effect of this happening would be more shareholder involvement. This is one of the main problems with the current market - shareholders are not taking enough interest in their investments (and neither are pension fund managers representing us) to keep companies in check. A belly up bank or two would ensure that people stung by it would be taking far more interest in what goes on under the hood of the companies in which they invest.

If governments had just kept their grubby noses out of the markets (generally a very good rule) then not only would we have been saddled with the risk of bailing out and increasing the country's risk profile but we would also have let the market do what it does so well.

Which is screwing over consumers. There was weakening of regulation at the end of the Clinton administration which allowed mortgage officers to give mortgages to people that definitely couldn't afford the houses they were buying. Consumers shouldn't need a lawyer sitting with them every time they make a big purchase, nor can most people afford one. The banks then sold these subprime mortgages, hedging against them because they knew they would fail at some point. I honestly don't understand how free market forces would somehow prevent banks from doing questionable things, or downright taking people's lunch money. Do you have an explanation for LIBOR?

When there's money to be made so a return can be delivered to investors, corporations can not be altruistic. They're looking out for their own bottom line, not for their customer's. The banks are too intertwined with government in the first place. Many of the past heads of the SEC have been former bankers and CEOs.

Bailing out the banks was distasteful, I agree, but these banks have made themselves too big to fail. The repercussions of making these giant financial institutions tank would've destroyed our economy, and I won't suggest it would lead to WWIII, but it would create very uncertain conditions for governments.
 
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