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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Modric THFC said:
As far as I'm concerned this is the worst defeat in Poch's 3 seasons.
Why? because it's plain to see Poch fudged up tactically, making the exact same mistake that put West Ham a goal up last game.

I really thought Poch was better than that.
I thought he would learn from playing a silly narrow formation against West Ham. I mean he changed back to our normal 4231 in the middle of the game.
But against Monaco he comes out with another narrow formation. Rose and Tripper were destroyed 1 v 2 down the flanks for the entire 90 minutes and Poch did nothing. The tactical change he did make was from one narrow formation to another.

For someone who was fully on board the Poch bandwagon this is shocking.

I mean I recognised he had deficiencies as a manager. The weird way he would throw away later rounds of competition with second strings after spending months playing first team players in the same competition. Then those players being exhausted at the end of the season.
But he usually had his tactics right.

Surely he has to recognise the reason the 4231 was coming unstuck before the Arsenal game was because of the absence of Kane and Alderweireld.
Now Kane's back and being wasted in a narrow formation. He had support last. He has no support for nearly the entire West Ham game.
Our full backs probably aren't even aware he's back in the team. Thats how little they have been able to provide for him.

Our whole game was built on pressing yet we are now playing a formation that isn't suited to pressing. You cant press the opposition back four when you have a narrow formation. They can just play it around you easily as you don't occupy the width of the pitch.

I'm at a complete loss to work out what is going on with Poch.
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Interesting points on a diamond being difficult to apply pressing with. Kind of agree, but also see where Poch is coming from in that if teams are playing 3 at the back against us, or easily nullifying our 4-2-3-1 as Bournemouth did, we need to think of another way to get the ball into the box. With the 4-2-3-1, teams would press us, Wanyama would be dropping deep to get the ball but the rest of the midfield 4 would be pushed up and we were able to get the ball to them. Wanyama was isolated and we could build nothing.

Against 3 CBs, the problem is even worse in that our striker gets totally shut out, but we also have a squad with a narrow attacking 3 behind the striker, which would play into the hands of a back 3 to snuff out, not giving the opportunity to create overloads on the flank.

This season is so interesting because of the tactical variations, and I can see what Poch was doing by trying to make the most of a squad that is set up to play narrow (save for the full backs), but still needing to occupy 3 centre backs or get support to a lone striker that has been isolated because our build from deep has been countered slightly. So it makes sense in theory but yeah, it probably has compromised our ability to press and therefore win the ball high up the pitch (which was the main thing that sets Poch apart from AVB...Poch wasn't so interested in control if there was an opportunity to exploit space quickly).

But what is the solution? I'm not sure...I feel against a Chelsea 3-4-3 maybe we spring a surprise on them and play GK on the left, Sissoko on the right and Janssen and Kane up front, go old English 4-4-2 and create overloads out wide. Against more common 4-5-1 variants, I'm not sure what the answer is. We just have to be better at getting the ball into and through midfield, and that may just take time, or our key players returning.
 
Daisuk said:
This is the big one. Why on earth aren't we set up to play like we did last season? Sure, personnel isn't always available, but the system and the tactics worked. Keep at it.
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/Now that is an interesting question. Ironically last season he was getting a lot of stick on this forum for always playing the same system and not having a plan B, I find that line of reasoning so ironic
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Interesting points on a diamond being difficult to apply pressing with. Kind of agree, but also see where Poch is coming from in that if teams are playing 3 at the back against us, or easily nullifying our 4-2-3-1 as Bournemouth did, we need to think of another way to get the ball into the box. With the 4-2-3-1, teams would press us, Wanyama would be dropping deep to get the ball but the rest of the midfield 4 would be pushed up and we were able to get the ball to them. Wanyama was isolated and we could build nothing.

Against 3 CBs, the problem is even worse in that our striker gets totally shut out, but we also have a squad with a narrow attacking 3 behind the striker, which would play into the hands of a back 3 to snuff out, not giving the opportunity to create overloads on the flank.

This season is so interesting because of the tactical variations, and I can see what Poch was doing by trying to make the most of a squad that is set up to play narrow (save for the full backs), but still needing to occupy 3 centre backs or get support to a lone striker that has been isolated because our build from deep has been countered slightly. So it makes sense in theory but yeah, it probably has compromised our ability to press and therefore win the ball high up the pitch (which was the main thing that sets Poch apart from AVB...Poch wasn't so interested in control if there was an opportunity to exploit space quickly).

But what is the solution? I'm not sure...I feel against a Chelsea 3-4-3 maybe we spring a surprise on them and play GK on the left, Sissoko on the right and Janssen and Kane up front, go old English 4-4-2 and create overloads out wide. Against more common 4-5-1 variants, I'm not sure what the answer is. We just have to be better at getting the ball into and through midfield, and that may just take time, or our key players returning.
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Fair enough with Poch trying something against West Ham's 3 at the back and then changing back to 4231 after half an hour.

But changing for no reason against Monaco's 442 was right out of Brendan Rodger's territory.

442 against Chelsea makes lot of sense but I cant see him relying on Sissoko and Jannsen.
 
Modric THFC said:
Fair enough with Poch trying something against West Ham's 3 at the back and then changing back to 4231 after half an hour.

But changing for no reason against Monaco's 442 was right out of Brendan Rodger's territory.

442 against Chelsea makes lot of sense but I cant see him relying on Sissoko and Jannsen.
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I think Sissoko would be fine (I can remember him having a stormer as Saudi Sportswashing Machine ended Chelsea's unbeaten run a couple of seasons back). I'm not sure that I see Janssen and Kane as being a partnership up front however. I would prefer to see Ali playing just behind Kane in a traditional number 10 type role. I also think he could do some damage there and dictate the game against Chelsea's 3-4-3 formation.
 
NaijaSpurs said:
You are fudging kidding me right? Wanyama has been our most consistent midfield player
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Where did I state he hasn't?

My point is that there is a possibility that his introduction in replacing Dier in that midfield role may have upset the strong morale that was clearly running through the team last year. It's clear that Dier and Alli are very close for example (and still very young) and there is possibly some unrest/unhappiness with Dier's place going to another player (who has indeed been very strong).

I'm in no way criticizing the inclusion of Wanyama, but looking beyond that into what may be causing possible issues within the team.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Individually I agree, but when have they all played together? And as I said, fair enough risking it, but surely change it when it's going tits up? Walker and Vertonghen were unused subs in a must win game.
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I'm guessing they trained during the week knowing they were in the team. Although I can understand what you are saying they haven't played together, and I do find it a bit strange that Trippier and Wimmer weren't trailed off as soon as we conceded the 2nd goal, but I still think the players should have given more.
 
Pochettino told Sky Sports: “I think it’s better to be in the Europa League, it would be good for the club. We are in a process and a period where we need to improve.

“To play Saturday then Tuesday-Wednesday is like you play the Premier League continuously. We struggled to be ready to compete in every game.



Are you kidding me? This is absolute RUBBISH. Has he started smoking crack this year?
 
Bullet said:
Pochettino told Sky Sports: “I think it’s better to be in the Europa League, it would be good for the club. We are in a process and a period where we need to improve.

“To play Saturday then Tuesday-Wednesday is like you play the Premier League continuously. We struggled to be ready to compete in every game.



Are you kidding me? This is absolute RUBBISH. Has he started smoking crack this year?
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It's total gonads on so many levels. Is he saying we aren't a match for Leverkusen and Monaco? Don't get me wrong, both are good sides, Monaco are a better side than us IMO but we should have given both of them a better game than we did, especially at home. We were more than capable of qualifying from that group.

So he'd rather be playing Thursday nights then Sundays and playing catch up with our rivals? How did that work out when we were chasing Leicester last season?

It's a bit small time to be saying it's better to be in the Europa.
 
Jurgen the German said:
It's total cobblers on so many levels. Is he saying we aren't a match for Leverkusen and Monaco? Don't get me wrong, both are good sides, Monaco are a better side than us IMO but we should have given both of them a better game than we did, especially at home. We were more than capable of qualifying from that group.

So he'd rather be playing Thursday nights then Sundays and playing catch up with our rivals? How did that work out when we were chasing Leicester last season?
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Yes seeing as it a lot harder then playing on a Wednesday/ Saturday. (Or so they say)
 
parklane1 said:
Yes seeing as it a lot harder then playing on a Wednesday/ Saturday. (Or so they say)
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It's not harder physically but there have been articles about the players not liking being taken out of their normal routines, i.e. not playing on Saturdays and it puts us at a disadvantage IMO in terms of playing a day later than the the teams around us.
 
Jurgen the German said:
It's not harder physically but there have been articles about the players not liking being taken out of their normal routines, i.e. not playing on Saturdays and it puts us at a disadvantage IMO in terms of playing a day later than the the teams around us.
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Its just another myth spread about the EL to go along with "Its far more games", "we travel far greater distances" they have all been proved to be wrong.

As for the players routine's ie not playing Saturdays well all i can say it that playing on a Saturday is not routine anymore (EL or not) Sky put paid to that years ago.
 
parklane1 said:
Its just another myth spread about the EL to go along with "Its far more games", "we travel far greater distances" they have all been proved to be wrong.

As for the players routine's ie not playing Saturdays well all i can say it that playing on a Saturday is not routine anymore (EL or not) Sky put paid to that years ago.
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I would argue it hasn't been proved right or wrong it's down to opinion, mine is that playing on a Sunday puts us at a disadvantage for the reasons I have laid out.

There are more and more Sunday games, but the majority of games are still played on a Saturday.
 
When he says it is hard because you play games saturday and tuesday I think he means games of a higher quality like prem games, playing Monaco was like playing a prem team, where as if we were in the europa league at this stage in the season we would have had our last group game where we would have already qualified and were playing inferior quality teams.

We had to become used to playing europa league/Uefa cup and league games 10 years ago, now the next step is to play champs league and EPL games in the same week, the is no taking your foot off the gas when you play champs league. At least that is how I think Poch is thinking.

It is a learning curve for him and I am happy to give him time, I would like to see more attacking support and for us to sign on a bosman in the summer Berahino.
 
Jurgen the German said:
It's total cobblers on so many levels. Is he saying we aren't a match for Leverkusen and Monaco? Don't get me wrong, both are good sides, Monaco are a better side than us IMO but we should have given both of them a better game than we did, especially at home. We were more than capable of qualifying from that group.

So he'd rather be playing Thursday nights then Sundays and playing catch up with our rivals? How did that work out when we were chasing Leicester last season?

It's a bit small time to be saying it's better to be in the Europa.
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I think he's saying that the quality is higher in the CL so it puts more strain on the squad playing at a higher level every three/four days than if we were in the EL where the quality is lower and we can get away with squad management.

I think he means its better to be in the Europa League than not in Europe at all


Miscommunication basically
 
Jurgen the German said:
I would argue it hasn't been proved right or wrong it's down to opinion, mine is that playing on a Sunday puts us at a disadvantage for the reasons I have laid out.

There are more and more Sunday games, but the majority of games are still played on a Saturday.
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The thing about playing on a Sunday is that 90% of the time it puts you under pressure, you either know you have to win because Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City or whoever have dropped points on the Saturday or you know you have to win because they gained points on Saturday.

Sounds stupid because obviously you go into every game trying to win, but I think it does have a part to play on the players psychologically.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
The thing about playing on a Sunday is that 90% of the time it puts you under pressure, you either know you have to win because Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City or whoever have dropped points on the Saturday or you know you have to win because they gained points on Saturday.

Sounds stupid because obviously you go into every game trying to win, but I think it does have a part to play on the players psychologically.
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Definitely. We saw it in the run-in to last season, when for the last few games we were always playing after Leicester and therefore always playing catch-up. However that was down to TV schedules rather than EL, as we'd dropped out by then.
 
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