Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[DeanoAustin]

I've no real interest in blame.
It's what can be done to fix this.
-Get rid of Levy so Poch can bring in 11 new players. Levy can barely sell players at the best of times. He is not gonna ship out 10 or 11 on the cheap.
-Or get rid of Poch

What not gonna fix it is shipping 4 or 5 out and the rest suddenly get behind a manager that doesn't even watch training anymore.

The reality is Levy is not going anywhere and will wait until enough fans are sick of the results that they will be onside with a Poch sacking.

I think Levy has a lot of responsibility for the current situation. Poch needed to refresh the squad last year. It didn't happen and we're paying the price now. I know there was money to spend but Levy obviously didn't back the manager with the players he wanted. I have a lot of sympathy for Poch in that respect. He worked miracles and was expected to continue working them with one hand tied behind his back.

That said, there are extenuating circumstances for Levy here. He prioritised the long term over the short term. But he's played his part in buggering up the short term. No doubt about it for me.

But all that matters not a jot for me. The issue I have is that Poch doesn't look like he's able to manage this situation and he's setting a very poor tone that has added to the negativity. For that reason, I think he's done at Spurs. However, I still have faith in Levy's long term plan.

 

[SylDave]

The sad fact is that our CBs are aging, one LB does not want to be here, one RB none of us want here, our two DMs are perma crocked, eriksen is having some kind of crisis, Hugo has turned into Mr bean.
Any one of those circumstances is not good, put it altogether and you are left we the sorry state that we are just now.

The two CB’s who a year ago were lauded as the best pairing in the league if not the world, but have spend the last 12 months playing with acres of space in front of them because we have played with one midfielder Winks, who this system has left to hang out to dry, Rose funny enough was injured for the majority of our peak years, Davies was playing but this gets completely overlooked, RB, is a issue but again our tactics of the last year have exposed both FB, Lloris yes I know the irony after Saturday but his mistakes are generally footwork/passing from being asked to play out, why has the rest of the squad downed tools no one knows, losing Dembele was huge I still think there may not have been a better player doing his role in the world.

We still have at absolute worst the 4th best squad in the league, we shouldn’t be anywhere near Liverpool and City but we should be finishing in the top 4 at a canter.

 

[glasgowspur]

The two CB’s who a year ago were lauded as the best pairing in the league if not the world, but have spend the last 12 months playing with acres of space in front of them because we have played with one midfielder Winks, who this system has left to hang out to dry, Rose funny enough was injured for the majority of our peak years, Davies was playing but this gets completely overlooked, RB, is a issue but again our tactics of the last year have exposed both FB, Lloris yes I know the irony after Saturday but his mistakes are generally footwork/passing from being asked to play out, why has the rest of the squad downed tools no one knows, losing Dembele was huge I still think there may not have been a better player doing his role in the world.

We still have at absolute worst the 4th best squad in the league, we shouldn’t be anywhere near Liverpool and City but we should be finishing in the top 4 at a canter.

The CBs were the best in the league, and Jan is still up there imho, tobys decline has been rapid. Lazt year £25m for Toby was a steal, this year it looks like robbery.
Big fan of Davies.
The space in front of the CBs that wanyama filled was huge and I've been on record as saying his absence is where all our problems started.
I don't think anyone has downed tools. Tobys legs aren't up to now.
Eriksens head is somewhere else.
So that's Hugo, toby, wanyama and Eriksens, basically the spine of the team except Harry.
They look confused and weary, not deliberately not trying.

 

[SylDave]

The CBs were the best in the league, and Jan is still up there imho, tobys decline has been rapid. Lazt year £25m for Toby was a steal, this year it looks like robbery.
Big fan of Davies.
The space in front of the CBs that wanyama filled was huge and I've been on record as saying his absence is where all our problems started.
I don't think anyone has downed tools. Tobys legs aren't up to now.
Eriksens head is somewhere else.
So that's Hugo, toby, wanyama and Eriksens, basically the spine of the team except Harry.
They look confused and weary, not deliberately not trying.

Hugo injury is concerning yes, I still hope that Dier can step into midfield given a chance, Eriksen opens up a door for Alli to play his preferred position behind Kane, and on to Kane, how about if we tried this crazy notion I know don’t laugh please but move him from midfield to up front, just give it a go like you never know what could happen.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Pochettinos mate has his say, 13:30 into the video.

Short version : blames Levy.

Question is is it his view or someone else?

Very interesting, although it’s notging that’s not really already out there.

Interesting as well because as is mentioned above, no club has really done what we have done, elevating ourselves up without a sugar daddy. It has meant that it hasn’t been as easy to maintain exceptional progress while shifting out any player we want, regardless of consequences. We’ve had to toe the line, and it may mean we have a bad season in between some good ones.

The Pep and Benitez advice is clearly what Poch wanted to heed too. Given that he saw this coming, given that he wanted to do it, if he still wants to be here, he should get that shot. And we should do what we can to keep him.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Very interesting, although it’s notging that’s not really already out there.

Interesting as well because as is mentioned above, no club has really done what we have done, elevating ourselves up without a sugar daddy. It has meant that it hasn’t been as easy to maintain exceptional progress while shifting out any player we want, regardless of consequences. We’ve had to toe the line, and it may mean we have a bad season in between some good ones.

The Pep and Benitez advice is clearly what Poch wanted to heed too. Given that he saw this coming, given that he wanted to do it, if he still wants to be here, he should get that shot. And we should do what we can to keep him.

It is something thats not out there. Its a known confidant of Pochettino laying the blame firmly on Levy = explicitly stating he ignored Pochettinos wishes/advice/vision.

I think thats something of an event, myself.

 

[SylDave]

Very interesting, although it’s notging that’s not really already out there.

Interesting as well because as is mentioned above, no club has really done what we have done, elevating ourselves up without a sugar daddy. It has meant that it hasn’t been as easy to maintain exceptional progress while shifting out any player we want, regardless of consequences. We’ve had to toe the line, and it may mean we have a bad season in between some good ones.

The Pep and Benitez advice is clearly what Poch wanted to heed too. Given that he saw this coming, given that he wanted to do it, if he still wants to be here, he should get that shot. And we should do what we can to keep him.

The question really should be what did he see coming?

Seemingly every player declining while they should be reaching their peak, which would be Nostradamus like of him.

Or a squad of players unable to play his known system for more than a couple of years at a time, this raises its own questions about his long term sustainability at any club.

But neither of it still answers the question of the last years tactics, if he saw this coming and had to adapt that’s fine but why spend a year playing a system that does not work, there are plenty of systems out of there, plenty styles of play instead he stubbornly stuck to one that had us playing with one hand tied behind our back.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

The question really should be what did he see coming?

Seemingly every player declining while they should be reaching their peak, which would be Nostradamus like of him.

Or a squad of players unable to play his known system for more than a couple of years at a time, this raises its own questions about his long term sustainability at any club.

But neither of it still answers the question of the last years tactics, if he saw this coming and had to adapt that’s fine but why spend a year playing a system that does not work, there are plenty of systems out of there, plenty styles of play instead he stubbornly stuck to one that had us playing with one hand tied behind our back.

I feel like you’re answering your own question. He saw it coming, he moved towards a system that required less pressing, a deeper defensive line, etc etc.

It’s not ‘a couple of years’ either. He’s had most of this squad since the start of his second season. It’s now his sixth.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It is something thats not out there. Its a known confidant of Pochettino laying the blame firmly on Levy = explicitly stating he ignored Pochettinos wishes/advice/vision.

I think thats something of an event, myself.

I don’t think it’s that much of an event, or that much blame. We’ve known for two years that Poch wanted to refresh the squad. We’ve known that Levy will always look out for long term future and keep us on an upward trajectory over a longer curve.

It feels to me like Ballague may be defending Poch, but this doesn’t feel like a Poch sanctioned shot. More an acknowledgement that the short term combusted with the long term. I’m not convinced that if Levy had his time again he’d do anything differently last summer. I also don’t think it chimes with the idea that clearly players didn’t want to move when we expected them to. And that isn’t on Levy, and I’m sure Poch would know it.

 

[SylDave]

I feel like you’re answering your own question. He saw it coming, he moved towards a system that required less pressing, a deeper defensive line, etc etc.

It’s not ‘a couple of years’ either. He’s had most of this squad since the start of his second season. It’s now his sixth.

I know which raises the point how can he hope to built a team when his preferred system has a lifespan of of 2-3 years, and building a new system is one thing, building a system that exposes players and makes them worse and sticking with it is another, there are plenty of systems that achieve what you suggested.

The last year there has not been a single sign of improvement we still look like it’s the first time we have played it, and whatever positives the system has they are far outweighed by negatives.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Which of them decided to stay? Wanyama, Rose, Alderweireld, Eriksen and Aurier all wanted to go this summer. None of them turned down an offer from a team that wanted them. Levy and Poch did. They kept these players.

The idea that the problem is just these players is a fantasy. That if we shift them, then the players run into the ground after 5 or 6 years of Poch will suddenly get some mental boast or something. None of them bar Wanyama will go in Janurary anyway. Levy simply isn't gonna shift them.

The likes of Son and Kane are seeing Poch behave so weirdly, not turning up at training and instead watching it on CCTV from his office. They are guessing why certain players are being dropped. They are hearing the nonsense he comes up with in press conferences. The aura Poch had is gone. They are fed up of being treated like children and their agents are no doubt will be talking to Levy soon.

That's not strictly true..... Wanyama turned down a move to Belgium (over wages).... IMO Levy should've stepped in here, swallowed his pride and made up the difference. Eriksen also refused to talk to Atletico Madrid who wanted him big time.

I think Alderweireld expected many offers to come in at his release clause (as did all of us on here I think) and we were dreading them. Funny how if we could turn back time we'd now all be desperately hoping for those offers.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I don’t think it’s that much of an event, or that much blame. We’ve known for two years that Poch wanted to refresh the squad. We’ve known that Levy will always look out for long term future and keep us on an upward trajectory over a longer curve.

It feels to me like Ballague may be defending Poch, but this doesn’t feel like a Poch sanctioned shot. More an acknowledgement that the short term combusted with the long term. I’m not convinced that if Levy had his time again he’d do anything differently last summer. I also don’t think it chimes with the idea that clearly players didn’t want to move when we expected them to. And that isn’t on Levy, and I’m sure Poch would know it.

You wouldnt, would you?

Whether or not its a Poch sanctioned jab (and personally I think it could be, at least - its close enough to the mark we cant discount it), its a known confidant of Pochettino taking a direct shot at Levy - in a more explicit way than seen before.

Not one to just brush off, IMO.

 

[parklane1]

What bids did they turn down?
The club can accept every offer put the table but if the players says no then that's it, you can't force a player to go.

Spot on.

As far as i know we did not turn any bids down, the fault is that the players were not interested in any bids that came in for them. Trying to put blame on the club for them still being here is rubbish.

 

[Raziel]

I think Levy has a lot of responsibility for the current situation. Poch needed to refresh the squad last year. It didn't happen and we're paying the price now. I know there was money to spend but Levy obviously didn't back the manager with the players he wanted. I have a lot of sympathy for Poch in that respect. He worked miracles and was expected to continue working them with one hand tied behind his back.

That said, there are extenuating circumstances for Levy here. He prioritised the long term over the short term. But he's played his part in buggering up the short term. No doubt about it for me.

But all that matters not a jot for me. The issue I have is that Poch doesn't look like he's able to manage this situation and he's setting a very poor tone that has added to the negativity. For that reason, I think he's done at Spurs. However, I still have faith in Levy's long term plan.

If you don't believe very credible people who said Poch refused several signings the summer we didn't sign anyone.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You wouldnt, would you?

Whether or not its a Poch sanctioned jab (and personally I think it could be, at least - its close enough to the mark we cant discount it), its a known confidant of Pochettino taking a direct shot at Levy - in a more explicit way than seen before.

Not one to just brush off, IMO.

I think it joins the dots for us all. I think all of us strongly suspected that Pochettino wanted certain things to happen that didn't happen. You don't leave players out of your pre-season tour squad if you want them around for the season. It is very hard to construct a winning group when there are a number of players not pulling in the right direction. It doesn't just affect the matches but the whole attitude in training.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Spot on.

As far as i know we did not turn any bids down, the fault is that the players were not interested in any bids that came in for them. Trying to put blame on the club for them still being here is rubbish.

At least one of the players turned down a move over money only. This could've been resolved by Levy swallowing his pride. There were also a number of clubs interested in Danny Rose but a combination of the transfer fee that we wanted and his wage package put them off (again something that I think could've been resolved had we had a DoF in this role instead of Levy).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If you don't believe very credible people who said Poch refused several signings the summer we didn't sign anyone.

Yeah people like Robbie Keane who said we wanted 4 players but the club couldn’t get them over the line.

The issue do course remains that did the players we want become available, were they affordable and would they come to us?

I want a Ferrari but there are reasons why I can’t have one

 

[Finney Is Back]

If you don't believe very credible people who said Poch refused several signings the summer we didn't sign anyone.

I don't blame Pochettino for turning down players that weren't on his requested list. Especially when (e.g.) Grealish, who was on his wanted list, was easily gettable but for the great bald one trying to 'win' on the deal yet again.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think it joins the dots for us all. I think all of us strongly suspected that Pochettino wanted certain things to happen that didn't happen. You don't leave players out of your pre-season tour squad if you want them around for the season. It is very hard to construct a winning group when there are a number of players not pulling in the right direction. It doesn't just affect the matches but the whole attitude in training.

The only disagreement I have is the notion Poch is obliged to use those players. He isnt.

 

[parklane1]

At least one of the players turned down a move over money only. This could've been resolved by Levy swallowing his pride. There were also a number of clubs interested in Danny Rose but a combination of the transfer fee that we wanted and his wage package put them off (again something that I think could've been resolved had we had a DoF in this role instead of Levy).

So are you saying that IF a player wants more money ( wages) then the buying club is willing to pay that Levy should make it up for him???? If i have that wrong i am sorry but if that is what you are suggesting then (imo) that is silly at best.