Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Robspur12]

We haven't been playing well at all. That's the whole point in posting details of xG for and against - it's the best predictor of longer term results and oursnare both bad and on a really bad trend.

Of course, it is limited because it doesn't provide explanations for our "bad" form. You conclude it is Poch's bad management I say that's unlikely given we finished 4th and got to the Champions League final. It could equally be that the squad has been pushed to its limits and needs freshening up. Much more likely given the injuries to Dembele and Wanyama and the lack of replacements.

 

[Robspur12]

Poch has said himself (in his book) that he prefers to allow players to play themselves out of bad form because of the negative effect subbing or dropping them has on their confidence. It's an entirely made up problem that no other manager in the world struggles with. It also removes the pain of poor performance by allowing players to continue to play, despite being awful.

He hasn't worried too much about the effect on Vertonghen's confidence or Toby's. He wasn't worried about dropping Moura in the final either. I wouldn't read to much into his ramblings.

 

[scaramanga]

Of course, it is limited because it doesn't provide explanations for our "bad" form. You conclude it is Poch's bad management I say that's unlikely given we finished 4th and got to the Champions League final. It could equally be that the squad has been pushed to its limits and needs freshening up. Much more likely given the injuries to Dembele and Wanyama and the lack of replacements.

He was a part of the decision making process behind the poor purchases that we couldn't move on. He was the manager that consistently refused to make subs and rest overworked players. He's the manager that continued to pick Sissoko despite the entire thinking section of the footballing community only being able to muster "limited" as a description when trying to compliment him.

 

[scaramanga]

He hasn't worried too much about the effect on Vertonghen's confidence or Toby's. He wasn't worried about dropping Moura in the final either. I wouldn't read to much into his ramblings.

He'll make tactical changes between matches, and he'll drop players over behaviour (although even then can't follow through and undermines himself with Eriksen). He doesn't sub players when they're having a stinker and he rarely drops them for the next match either.

 

[Robspur12]

He was a part of the decision making process behind the poor purchases that we couldn't move on. He was the manager that consistently refused to make subs and rest overworked players. He's the manager that continued to pick Sissoko despite the entire thinking section of the footballing community only being able to muster "limited" as a description when trying to compliment him.

Yet his methods have brought us unparalleled success in terms of recent Spurs managers. He has established us as a top 4 team and one of the best in Europe - on a relative shoestring.

At our level of purchases there will be good and bad. We are rarely buying established superstars.

Re: Sissoko most of his managers - benitez, Deschamps and now Poch see things untrained football minds don't see and put him in their squads. It is also widely acknowledged, outside of GG, that he is one of the most improved players in our squad.

Despite his "poor" rotation we have remained competitive in the League and Champions League. This despite our players having had the most game time in the World cup.

The man has earned our trust and to me your criticism just doesn't stand up.

 

[parklane1]

We haven't been playing well at all. That's the whole point in posting details of xG for and against - it's the best predictor of longer term results and oursnare both bad and on a really bad trend.

XG is the biggest load of gonads around, i would think even you would accept that.

 

[scaramanga]

Yet his methods have bought us unparalleled success in terms of recent Spurs managers. He has established us as a top 4 team and one of the best in Europe - on a relative shoestring.

At our level of purchases there will be good and bad. We are rarely buying established superstars.

Re: Sissoko most of his managers - benitez, Deschamps and now Poch see things untrained football minds don't see and put him in their squads. It is also widely acknowledged, outside of GG, that he is one of the most improved players in our squad.

Despite his "poor" rotation we have remained competitive in the League and Champions League. This despite our players having had the most game time in the World cup.

The man has earned our trust and to me your criticism just doesn't stand up.

As I've already said - he's done an incredible job of moving us from also-rans to contenders for 2nd/3rd.

From his own high level, our performances have been declining for some time. The results since Christmas have been mid-table form at best.

I was one of the loudest voices telling everyone that Poch had yet to have a proper pre-season with his team and that we struggled last year because of it. He's had a pre-season and we're churning out the same old brick we were before the break. It's like the summer didn't happen.

 

[scaramanga]

XG is the biggest load of gonad*s around, i would think even you would accept that.

I'd love to hear your detailed explanation as to why.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I must say I’m quite surprised at the negativity towards Poch given everything he has done but it does feel like something is different this time - something is going wrong. We’ve had bad runs of results before but always gotten ourselves out of it. This does feel like the continuation of a negative pattern.

Part of me also thinks he is making too much of the Eriksen situation. He has another year left on his contract and hasn’t gotten a move, so I don’t fully understand why he is being treated in this half way house - the acknowledgement that it’s difficult for him, that the squad in general is unsettled, dropping him only to the bench and then very clearly using him as the escape plan when things are going wrong. Is the message supposed to be that he isn’t fully committed? In which case, keep him away from the team until September? Is the message that he is still training well and that’s why he’s in the squad? In which case start him? Are we trying to establish a way of playing that doesn’t require Eriksen being on the pitch, and is part of Poch’s frustration that he doesn’t know whether he can build around Eriksen for this season or not?

On that last point, if that’s the case, I almost understand it. But I also can’t see right now the transfer window slamming shut in Europe and all of a sudden performances massively improving. If there are reasons these players want to leave are they going to be happy they are stuck here another year? Are they suddenly going to play better? What does it say about them that they are allowing uncertainty to affect their performances or their commitment in training?

Maybe we are just at an awkward point in the transition where we have a few players who feel like they don’t want to do the Poch demands anymore, a few new players who haven’t settled in yet and this might be yet another transition season while we try and move on the players we need to. As frustrating at that is. I guess there is a group which maybe includes Eriksen, Rose, Aurier, Wanyama, maybe Jan, and maybe Toby? I’d like to think a core of Lloris, Sanchez, Winks, Dele, Kane, plus Son, Sissoko, Lucas, Lamela, that should be enough to welcome the new guys in.

It is odd though. Something seems to be up. I can’t understand why so many players who have seen so much improvement at this club seemingly think it’s the end of the road for them. Maybe Trippier was part of that group too. Maybe it is hard for Poch’s methods to work on player that are older, or who have had to work at them for 5+ years. Maybe there is a shelf life, and some players want less intensity. It’s going to make this season an awkward one if we can’t shift who we need to.

 

[Robspur12]

As I've already said - he's done an incredible job of moving us from also-rans to contenders for 2nd/3rd.

From his own high level, our performances have been declining for some time. The results since Christmas have been mid-table form at best.

I was one of the loudest voices telling everyone that Poch had yet to have a proper pre-season with his team and that we struggled last year because of it. He's had a pre-season and we're churning out the same old brick we were before the break. It's like the summer didn't happen.

We are three games in and the circumstances that have led us to go through this difficult period have not gone away. Fudge knows what's happening with the squad at the moment. I think, in part your annoyance with Poch is that he is still playing Sissoko, a decision you and your stats have never reconciled with.

As I said yesterday was terrible. But I would be far more concerned if Poch didn't have a clue why. His press conference clearly identified that we gave away a cheap goal and we need to attack more aggressively. I believe he will make this happen but he needs time to sort out the squad. I am frankly bemused by some of the opprobrium directed Poch's way. But not surprised.

He will have us in the top 4 again this season and while I would love for us to win the league, given how far ahead of everyone else City are that was highly unlikely anyway.

 

[thfcsteff]

Disappointment at his increasingly petulant behaviour aside, he's fully earned the right to a bad year. I'm 400% Poch in for this season, whatever happens - whether we finish 5th or 15th. He deserves that much in terms of loyalty to him.

But the least I want is that our manager is committed to *us*, Tottenham Hotspur. And increasingly, it seems like he isn't.

Great post.

 

[thfcsteff]

He's building a new team that hasn't had a chance to play yet. People always latch onto his demeanor on the sidelines when we have a run of poor performances, it is exactly the same when we are playing great and jumping up and down does little to change how a team plays. We always start the season slowly, I am convinced it is because we are trained to reach peak condition in the winter when there are the most games. If we are still playing badly in November/December, that is the time to worry.

I am one Poch’s biggest supporters/fans/acolytes, and I desperately want what you’re saying to be true. But I fear it isn’t. Hopefully this is all down to the window; my deeper concern is that it is more. I hope he is OK/there is nothing terrible affecting his life, and I also hope that he can find the necessary tools to re-energize matters.

I think the contract situations trouble him deeply BTW. I hope there have been no communication breakdowns between him and the staff. I suspect he and Levy have hd a few recently...

 

[thfcsteff]

Muppet

Agreed tenfold. I just don’t get it.

 

[Raziel]

We are three games in and the circumstances that have led us to go through this difficult period have not gone away. Fudge knows what's happening with the squad at the moment. I think, in part your annoyance with Poch is that he is still playing Sissoko, a decision you and your stats have never reconciled with.

As I said yesterday was terrible. But I would be far more concerned if Poch didn't have a clue why. His press conference clearly identified that we gave away a cheap goal and we need to attack more aggressively. I believe he will make this happen but he needs time to sort out the squad. I am frankly bemused by some of the opprobrium directed Poch's way. But not surprised.

He will have us in the top 4 again this season and while I would love for us to win the league, given how far ahead of everyone else City are that was highly unlikely anyway.

Not 3 games (from reddit post)

15 PL games, 15 points, 10 games with us scoring 1 goal or less. That is a fudging disaster ..

Poch earned his support through the bad run, it was the 12 games at last season that we gave him a pass on, fatigue, lack of depth, CL run, we used it all ..

@BrainOfLevy it does feel different this time, it feels end of era .. Poch was an amazing manager for us at a certain point of time (as was BMJ and Harry), it doesn't mean he is the right man for the next step.

I hope he proves us wrong and turns it around, but he and his mentor seem to struggle with that last step, motivating under 24 year old players to run into the ground for you perhaps has a cap?

 

[Pirate55]

Poch has said himself (in his book) that he prefers to allow players to play themselves out of bad form because of the negative effect subbing or dropping them has on their confidence. It's an entirely made up problem that no other manager in the world struggles with. It also removes the pain of poor performance by allowing players to continue to play, despite being awful.


Take a look at the graph I posted a few posts above. Our likelihood of scoring has been on a long term downward trend and our likelihood of stopping the opposition the reverse. The results lagged behind until last Jan, but we've been on a backward trend for some time and he hasn't fixed it.

He hasn't managed us well since we took the step up. I'm not claiming he can't, but he hasn't yet. He needs to turn things around and very, very quickly.

I agree. It is essentially down to him. He is the manager ffs. He makes some silly statements at times (ie refer to me as the coach - as if he has nothing to do with transfers despite being on the transfer committee !) His coming accross as a petulant, hard done by individual. I said before that he needs to man-up. He is our leader. He needs to start showing some strong leadership qualities - and quickly. I am not (yet) in the Poch out phalanx as I believe what he has achieved for us over the last six years has been brilliant and he deserves a lot of credit for that.

However, as Scara's graph showed, these three games aren't just a blip but rather we have been on a downward trajectory for some time. Some interesting stats are:

1. We have only won 9 out of 22 games played in 2019 (40% win ratio)
2. We have only had 7 wins in our last 21 games in all competitions (33% ratio) with11 defeats and 3 draws
3. In the PL, we have had just four wins from our last 15 matches (26% win ratio) with only 15 points achieved - i.e. a point a game.
4 And apparently we have not been ahead at halftime in something like 23 out of 27 games (85%)

For me, all these stats are shocking. But the last one is testament to our slow starts in most games. Pool and City start fast and often score early. This makes teams come out and they then exploit the gaps. Why we don't do this is just mystifying to me. Poch needs to address this first and foremost. Our build up before games simply can't be right. He needs to send them out fired up. At the moment, he doesn't even seem to be able to get himself fired up.

He is our LEADER. Everything stems from him. He must find his mojo again soon and project it into his players. If he can't do this over the next few months , then I believe at that time we should start to consider "alternative arrangements ". It really is now all down to him to show he has what it takes to be a successful manager with a top club.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Not 3 games (from reddit post)

15 PL games, 15 points, 10 games with us scoring 1 goal or less. That is a fudging disaster ..

Poch earned his support through the bad run, it was the 12 games at last season that we gave him a pass on, fatigue, lack of depth, CL run, we used it all ..

@BrainOfLevy it does feel different this time, it feels end of era .. Poch was an amazing manager for us at a certain point of time (as was BMJ and Harry), it doesn't mean he is the right man for the next step.

I hope he proves us wrong and turns it around, but he and his mentor seem to struggle with that last step, motivating under 24 year old players to run into the ground for you perhaps has a cap?

Lies, damned lies and statistics...


https://mobile.twitter.com/sportingintel

 

[JerusalemMan]

Not 3 games (from reddit post)


15 PL games, 15 points, 10 games with us scoring 1 goal or less. That is a fudging disaster ..

Poch earned his support through the bad run, it was the 12 games at last season that we gave him a pass on, fatigue, lack of depth, CL run, we used it all ..

@BrainOfLevy it does feel different this time, it feels end of era .. Poch was an amazing manager for us at a certain point of time (as was BMJ and Harry), it doesn't mean he is the right man for the next step.

I hope he proves us wrong and turns it around, but he and his mentor seem to struggle with that last step, motivating under 24 year old players to run into the ground for you perhaps has a cap?

I was following, if not wholly agreeing, until the bolded section.
On which part of Poch's management history are you calling on to make that judgement, and equate him with his mentor? Those last 15 games? (Which disregard the interspersed European matches)
This is the first season Poch seems to have been given big money signings, with efforts to make more. He's had two (that's TWO) PL games with one of them who a young lad new to the PL, the team and the language. Another has not been able to play more than half an hour. Another hasn't played at all.
When these, rather significant, players are available, and maybe he's had another chance to have high cost players added to his resource list, that may may may be the time to START to judge whether he is the man for the next step.

Not before then.

 

[scaramanga]

We are three games in and the circumstances that have led us to go through this difficult period have not gone away. Fudge knows what's happening with the squad at the moment. I think, in part your annoyance with Poch is that he is still playing Sissoko, a decision you and your stats have never reconciled with.

As I said yesterday was terrible. But I would be far more concerned if Poch didn't have a clue why. His press conference clearly identified that we gave away a cheap goal and we need to attack more aggressively. I believe he will make this happen but he needs time to sort out the squad. I am frankly bemused by some of the opprobrium directed Poch's way. But not surprised.

He will have us in the top 4 again this season and while I would love for us to win the league, given how far ahead of everyone else City are that was highly unlikely anyway.

How many times has that happened recently? I think I can count on one hand the number of times we've played at or near the level we can play at.

I think there's a good chance we'll finish top 4, but let's not forget that we only did last season because everyone else went to brick too. We are unlikely to be that lucky again, but so far the evidence shows we are likely to be that disjointed again.

Top 4 is important, but we're not Arsenal - there has to be some target beyond that. I'm not fickle or impatient enough to believe that has to happen quickly but I do want to see progression. Currently our progress is backwards and needs to be arrested fast.

 

[Mulletperm]

At the moment I'd take 4 in a heartbeat because if we continue playing the way were are I can't see it happening.

 

[NLS]

Sadly, I find myself agreeing with a lot of the criticism directed Poch's way but I also have one more...

He moans about the Eriksen situation disrupting the team but before the champions League final he said that if we won it he might go back to Argentina... Hardly ideal for our preparation and as others have said there are shades of mourinho about his behaviour now.

15 points from 15 games is just shocking.....

COYS.