Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[monkeybarry]

Right, now you can spend the next couple of days debating what Geoff Shreeves actually meant.

Poch admits English football isn't the best place for him and is frustrated by the lack of aptitude at Real Madrid trsitrai on Friday?!

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I have said it before, but I don't think Madrid would go for Poch. He's done a great job with us, but he's won phuck all and in the big games, we are often quite sh1t. Madrid don't keep any manager for more than 5 minutes, why go for a "project" guy like Poch when Conte is available and has won the league at both clubs he's managed?

Maybe they will go for Poch, I just don't see it though.

They definitely went for him in the summer. They kicked the machine into gear for a couple of days, and quickly moved on when Poch told them there was no chance right now.

They'll come back at some point, but Poch can just look at how it's gone for Lopetegui and see that if he doesn't get off to the best start, it could all go tits up for him. I think he'll be thinking he needs to have a good bank of achievements around his career before going to Real, because otherwise your stock can easily go down.

 

[thfcsteff]

He sounds really, really glum. If that's part of a strategy to boost morale in the dressing room, it must be a fiendishly complex one. But it's more likely that he's genuinely tinkled off, and that can't be good for the team. I wonder whether part of what's eating at him is having been obliged to offer an olive branch to Toby.

In fairness that is a good comment. Perhaps my habit of taking an optimistic view of things could do with a little more reason sometimes!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[90291Spur]

In fairness that is a good comment. Perhaps my habit of taking an optimistic view of things could do with a little more reason sometimes!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

I'm thoroughly plssed with this season - where do you HONESTLY think we are? Yes, we played relatively 'well' against PSV and Emirates Marketing Project, but something seems off. Maybe this group needs freshening up, maybe Poch needs his aura cleansed, but I do fear for a slip coming up. The Goons, with a new coach are unbeaten in 12, winning 11 on the bounce, and we are struggling our way to a decent points haul but it's an effort. The shine seems to have come off the team. I hope we are not on the edges of a negative spiral.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm thoroughly plssed with this season - where do you HONESTLY think we are? Yes, we played relatively 'well' against PSV and Emirates Marketing Project, but something seems off. Maybe this group needs freshening up, maybe Poch needs his aura cleansed, but I do fear for a slip coming up. The Goons, with a new coach are unbeaten in 12, winning 11 on the bounce, and we are struggling our way to a decent points haul but it's an effort. The shine seems to have come off the team. I hope we are not on the edges of a negative spiral.

Well, there is certainly something "off" in the overall vibe.
There are several very compelling "reasons" of course, the ones we all know (World Cup semis, stadium delayed again, unable to shift big name big money veterans we wanted to meaning we could not bring in big namers), an injury crisis which has seen us not be able to play our full strength team for any period of time this season PLUS our World Cup winning skipper/keeper going on the lash, picking up a curious injury and now seemingly unable to claw his way back to top form, instead dropping massive clangers every other game.

I mean, that would be enough to take any club off it's axis TBH, but I do find myself wondering whether Poch is finding himself unable to get a tune out of this squad like he used to? I don't "think" so, but it'd be a lie to say I hadn't considered it.

I always said that the only thing which could see him leave/re-rail us, was if Levy (Levy's "people") fell out with him. I sincerely hope that has not happened.

Personally-speaking, he needs to lead us through at least one season in the new stadium. If he leaves before that, then it would reflect poorly on him.

My gut feeling is that by the new year we will look back at this time period and laugh as things will be OK.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Right now, we are average, and we are about what we should be given the sum of our parts. The magic that enabled us to surpass that limitation is gone, and we are pedestrian and utterly ordinary.

This season is one of regression. As most people sort of expected after the summer window - whatever the reasons for that failure, and whomever was responsible.

And this filters through - to the players, to the staff, and to Poch.

The players perhaps don't feel as motivated, because it's clear the club is utterly uninterested in challenging for the trophies they're competing for - the Premier League, the Champions League, and so on. Yes, the club can argue that they have a nebulous plan to improve our position to maybe challenge in the long run (5 to 10 years) via the stadium, but what does that matter to the players? They won't be here for 5 to 10 years. To them, all they see is a club that refused to invest a cent in the market to strengthen the team - for whatever reason. So why would they put in maximum effort? Subconsciously, slipping standards are inevitable.

Especially when you consider that it's been the same voice instructing them from the sidelines all these years. Managers, as with most things, have 'best by' dates - after a while, as has been attested to in numerous football biographies, hearing the same voice on the sidelines gets boring. It's why Fergie kept switching up 1) his players, and 2) his assistants, the ones who actually did all the training and tactics - it kept things fresh.

Poch has been here five years, with the same staff, and the same approach. And although he's always managed to extract miracles from this squad - this summer of utter stagnation might have been the tipping point in terms of his effectiveness in extracting extra value from a squad which is now a year older and utterly unchanged.

And perhaps Poch feels this too. Which is why he's been blunter than usual (imo) in his recent press conferences.

I agree with @thfcsteff - he needs to lead us through a season in the new stadium. But, ominously, it just all seems a bit stale.

And I will say this - someone was responsible for the decisions made during summer window. Maybe it was Levy, maybe it was Poch, maybe it was f*cking 'futbol'.

But if Poch is forced out because of a summer of utter stagnation and dereliction of duty, it won't matter who will be to blame. We'll be in deep, deep trouble.

And, sadly, I see the same pattern repeating throughout the rest of ENIC's reign. They won't change. And thus, I sincerely hope that it's coming to its end ASAP.

Take your profit and go.

 

[StephenH]

Be careful what you wish for! @DubaiSpur

There are no quick fixes.

We put on a credible performance last night with many injuries against the purported “best team in Europe”.

 

[Legohamster]

Let’s assume that Mopo was putting his foot down in the summer and refused players that he didn’t think he would work with.

How long do you think the Real Board would put up with this?

Do you think Real fans would put up with possession football? Capello was sacked after winning the title for not being exciting enough

Don’t even start on his European record.....

I imagine he will end up at Real at some point, but he won’t last a season if he goes now.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I imagine Conte, Wenger and Klopp would be higher on the list of Real’s list of potential managers than Poch so I don’t think we have anything to worry about.

 

[StephenH]

I imagine Conte, Wenger and Klopp would be higher on the list of Real’s list of potential managers than Poch so I don’t think we have anything to worry about.

Real sadly don’t do logic.
Especially atm they are in meltdown and will be clutching at straws to stay afloat.
They are rumoured to be looking at Martinez now. Desperate or what!
Real are a mad house any manager on Pochettino current trajectory would steer well clear.
It’s not as if it’s about money!

 

[the dza]

The players perhaps don't feel as motivated, because it's clear the club is utterly uninterested in challenging for the trophies they're competing for - the Premier League, the Champions League, and so on. Yes, the club can argue that they have a nebulous plan to improve our position to maybe challenge in the long run (5 to 10 years) via the stadium, but what does that matter to the players? They won't be here for 5 to 10 years. To them, all they see is a club that refused to invest a cent in the market to strengthen the team - for whatever reason. So why would they put in maximum effort? Subconsciously, slipping standards are inevitable.

That's a very good point. The players want to win now and maybe, given the improvement in other teams and the stasis of our squad, perhaps a few of them have one eye on the exit door.

I still have faith that performances will improve, because this has happened each season under Poch -- we look a bit jaded for the first 2 months and then we pick up, normally smashing everyone through December and January. So I think we'll finish in the top 4 again. But in my heart of hearts, I don't see us winning anything. There is something I can't quantify that is missing from this group, or maybe even Poch himself. At our best, we are a superb team and can give anybody a game. We just seem to mess up when we have the chance to make that extra step, it's like this team has been waiting to really arrive for the past 3 years and hasn't quite managed it. Maybe some of the players will start to feel that it's not going to happen with this bunch.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

Right now, we are average, and we are about what we should be given the sum of our parts. The magic that enabled us to surpass that limitation is gone, and we are pedestrian and utterly ordinary.

This season is one of regression. As most people sort of expected after the summer window - whatever the reasons for that failure, and whomever was responsible.

And this filters through - to the players, to the staff, and to Poch.

The players perhaps don't feel as motivated, because it's clear the club is utterly uninterested in challenging for the trophies they're competing for - the Premier League, the Champions League, and so on. Yes, the club can argue that they have a nebulous plan to improve our position to maybe challenge in the long run (5 to 10 years) via the stadium, but what does that matter to the players? They won't be here for 5 to 10 years. To them, all they see is a club that refused to invest a cent in the market to strengthen the team - for whatever reason. So why would they put in maximum effort? Subconsciously, slipping standards are inevitable.

Especially when you consider that it's been the same voice instructing them from the sidelines all these years. Managers, as with most things, have 'best by' dates - after a while, as has been attested to in numerous football biographies, hearing the same voice on the sidelines gets boring. It's why Fergie kept switching up 1) his players, and 2) his assistants, the ones who actually did all the training and tactics - it kept things fresh.

Poch has been here five years, with the same staff, and the same approach. And although he's always managed to extract miracles from this squad - this summer of utter stagnation might have been the tipping point in terms of his effectiveness in extracting extra value from a squad which is now a year older and utterly unchanged.

And perhaps Poch feels this too. Which is why he's been blunter than usual (imo) in his recent press conferences.

I agree with @thfcsteff - he needs to lead us through a season in the new stadium. But, ominously, it just all seems a bit stale.

And I will say this - someone was responsible for the decisions made during summer window. Maybe it was Levy, maybe it was Poch, maybe it was f*cking 'futbol'.

But if Poch is forced out because of a summer of utter stagnation and dereliction of duty, it won't matter who will be to blame. We'll be in deep, deep trouble.

And, sadly, I see the same pattern repeating throughout the rest of ENIC's reign. They won't change. And thus, I sincerely hope that it's coming to its end ASAP.

Take your profit and go.

Good analysis and terrible, unsupported conclusions. We’ve been punching above our weight for a while, which is unsustainable this year for various reasons. The ones you raise about management and team stagnation are important. They resonate.

But then you jump to saying that we need new owners. Why? Overall, we’ve been incredibly lucky with ENIC. We may regress slightly. We could lose Poch, we could go back to being a Europa league team for a while, there could be rather more nights like Barcelona when we grudgingly admit to being outclassed. But that's all consistent with sensible stewardship of the club.

The chance of winning the lottery, and finding a jovial billionaire (whose wealth comes honestly) determined to game FFP by any means possible, is much lower than encountering someone with a less long-term plan for recouping their investment. ENIC at least can point to the fortune they've already made. The next owner would need to justify a far, far higher price.

Hence, the day we lose Levy is likely to be a worse day than the day we lose Poch. Fortunately, it's likely to be more distant.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I have said it before, but I don't think Madrid would go for Poch. He's done a great job with us, but he's won phuck all and in the big games, we are often quite sh1t. Madrid don't keep any manager for more than 5 minutes, why go for a "project" guy like Poch when Conte is available and has won the league at both clubs he's managed?

Maybe they will go for Poch, I just don't see it though.

I usually think the opposite, would Poch go for Madrid? And, honestly, Im not so sure its the obvious yes people expect.

Madrid is a basket case club that demands instant success and gratification.

Poch is a methodical manager who's practices take time to take effect.

The two simply dont gel, and I credit Poch with more than enough intelligence to know that.

And thats before you roll into the other aspects of it, the media circus and constant spotlight, the primadonna players, the psycho chairman...

If Poch goes anywhere, it would be to Utd imo.

Would it? A bit like Madrid - if they are expecting immediate success its not as clear cut a choice.

They have more resources than us, of course, and Im sure that would appeal - but they would need to make promsies of a lack of expectation while he does his thing...

 

[the dza]

Real sadly don’t do logic.
Especially atm they are in meltdown and will be clutching at straws to stay afloat.
They are rumoured to be looking at Martinez now. Desperate or what!
Real are a mad house any manger on Pochettino current trajectory would steer well clear.
It’s not as if it’s about money!

An appointment like that would be a stop-gap until the end of the season, imo. Then they go big after the target they really want (whether that is Poch, Klopp or whoever).

 

[StephenH]

As I’ve said before Pochettino has been with us for a while now and the players may well need to hear a ‘new voice’.

But who’s voice?

I can’t think of anybody at the top of the managerial tree who contemplate coming to Spurs atm, with no funds for players.
We will be looking at the likes of Eddie Howe and he might think twice.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

An appointment like that would be a stop-gap until the end of the season, imo. Then they go big after the target they really want (whether that is Poch, Klopp or whoever).

Martinez is basically available as well, so nice and convenient.

They do have a history of random posts, remember Ramos after he was shocking with us?

Martinez would be an absolute disaster as well, terrible manager.

 

[Baleforce]

Good analysis and terrible, unsupported conclusions. We’ve been punching above our weight for a while, which is unsustainable this year for various reasons. The ones you raise about management and team stagnation are important. They resonate.

But then you jump to saying that we need new owners. Why? Overall, we’ve been incredibly lucky with ENIC. We may regress slightly. We could lose Poch, we could go back to being a Europa league team for a while, there could be rather more nights like Barcelona when we grudgingly admit to being outclassed. But that's all consistent with sensible stewardship of the club.

The chance of winning the lottery, and finding a jovial billionaire (whose wealth comes honestly) determined to game FFP by any means possible, is much lower than encountering someone with a less long-term plan for recouping their investment. ENIC at least can point to the fortune they've already made. The next owner would need to justify a far, far higher price.

Hence, the day we lose Levy is likely to be a worse day than the day we lose Poch. Fortunately, it's likely to be more distant.

I completely agree.

I love Poch, he's doing a great job, but I have faith that the next manager Levy hires will carry on the work.

 

[StephenH]

An appointment like that would be a stop-gap until the end of the season, imo. Then they go big after the target they really want (whether that is Poch, Klopp or whoever).

Real are a basket case they could do anything.

 

[the dza]

I usually think the opposite, would Poch go for Madrid? And, honestly, Im not so sure its the obvious yes people expect.

Madrid is a basket case club that demands instant success and gratification.

Poch is a methodical manager who's practices take time to take effect.

The two simply dont gel, and I credit Poch with more than enough intelligence to know that.

And thats before you roll into the other aspects of it, the media circus and constant spotlight, the primadonna players, the psycho chairman...

Would it? A bit like Madrid - if they are expecting immediate success its not as clear cut a choice.

They have more resources than us, of course, and Im sure that would appeal - but they would need to make promsies of a lack of expectation while he does his thing...

Madrid are the biggest job in the game. I agree with your arguments for not going there, but if you do go as a manager, you get to spend untold millions, you can draw the worlds best players with the money and stature of the club and you have a genuine crack at winning the biggest prizes. I think any coach would be tempted.

I think Utd would be a more likely fit, as I think they'd give Poch time. They haven't won the Champions League for ten years, they haven't won the Premier League for 5 or 6 years. In that time, Poch has got us closer to the title than they have been. With the money they have, the history for developing youth, I think for Poch, Utd would just be an upgraded version of us. They have the money where a coach like Poch could potentially build a team to dominate, but he'd get more time to do it than at Madrid because they haven't had the recent success in the major competitions.

 

[the dza]

Good analysis and terrible, unsupported conclusions. We’ve been punching above our weight for a while, which is unsustainable this year for various reasons. The ones you raise about management and team stagnation are important. They resonate.

But then you jump to saying that we need new owners. Why? Overall, we’ve been incredibly lucky with ENIC. We may regress slightly. We could lose Poch, we could go back to being a Europa league team for a while, there could be rather more nights like Barcelona when we grudgingly admit to being outclassed. But that's all consistent with sensible stewardship of the club.

The chance of winning the lottery, and finding a jovial billionaire (whose wealth comes honestly) determined to game FFP by any means possible, is much lower than encountering someone with a less long-term plan for recouping their investment. ENIC at least can point to the fortune they've already made. The next owner would need to justify a far, far higher price.

Hence, the day we lose Levy is likely to be a worse day than the day we lose Poch. Fortunately, it's likely to be more distant.

I agree, I think new owners would be a huge risk for us. I fear we'd end up with some yank who would be more concerned with our NFL-ready stadium than our team being a success.