DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
ENIC Eunt Domus.
Aw, don't be so grumpy. Here, have this beautiful, antique, 18th century Japanese haiku...
View attachment 5892
Courtesy of Bill Madrid, over at TFC. Penny for thine thoughts.
Little things amuse little minds.
Splitter.Fine, fine.
ENIC Ite Domum
Our current situation has all been explained before.
We're skint, and there is probably no right player. He doesn't want second-choices, but we don't seem at all willing to pay for his first choices, so what option is there?
Re: Levy and Lewis, I've heard the word 'agenda' thrown around by far too many overbearing forum police types to take it seriously, so forgive me if I don't. I think they've done a roughly above-average job of using the club's own money in a competent fashion, and I'd prefer they sell up, take their well-earned profit and leave. That's it.
As for the rest of it, a) what is preferable about our 'model', compared to, say, Liverpool's? Or even Chelsea's?
Simple question.
And b) not sure why you're taking digs at me for where I live or what I'd prefer our ownership to look like. Not relevant, surely.
Aw, don't be so grumpy. Here, have this beautiful, antique, 18th century Japanese haiku...
View attachment 5892
Courtesy of Bill Madrid, over at TFC. Penny for thine thoughts.
A)
We have chosen a method of trying to build infrastructure and a secure base, to stop becoming a cup every 10yrs club. Is our model better than chelsea's, i would say yes in the long term.
Yes they have won a lot in 10yrs hence the long term argument, they currently have large debts to their owner, but are behind us again in the league,
City - well are a law to their own
Liverpool are build on a historical success we never had
Utd - Same as lIverpool
Arsenal are a fair comparison, however they started from a higher base both on and off field than us, they are now also behind us, on the pitch with us close off the pitch
I would say we are in a group of teams with, Forest, Leeds, Everton etc and even then thats flattering us, but we are in a group of teams with previous success, but in no way can say we are are a big team, but are the only ones who have managed to fight out of the pack in the new modern financial age.
B) its relevant in that you view spurs through a screen, its not a dig, if i was in your position my opinion would probably be more aligned to yours, getting up at 3am to watch games consistently (or whatever people have to do) is to be admired and i wouldn't totally belittle that. However thinking that its the same as being a ST holder or regularly going to games is not correct, foreign fans experience is not the same, just as those who go to away games is not the same as home games.
Some people watch the game from a sofa, that means they dont see the runs off the ball, but they see better analysis, each to their own, but the way you consume the game and the club will of course influence your viewpoint
Dear DubaiSpur,
Here are some of my thoughts...
Many years ago after suffering several years of utter dross and incompetence, I called Levy and Enic frauds, wanted them out, couldn't believe they continued to lie to us about the big stadium build, future plans, investment in the wrong areas, yada yada yada... However I started to give him a little credit when they actually delivered one of the best Training facilities in Europe if not the world, slowly over the years I have bought into the longer term strategy Levy and his crew have actually put together. Since then we have built what appears to be a fantasic boutique hotel (which generates increased commercial revenue) adjacent to the training complex and we are on the cusp of moving into a Stadium that will give as much "bragging rights" if not more than winning the league or FA Cup imho.
If they had not been investing and improving the infrastructure and simply extracting all the profits then I'd certainly understand where you are coming from and probably join you and "THE KNOBHEAD WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED who looks like Harry Hill" and his hoard (although I suspect he's simply created 10 alter-ego's to pad out his site's comments) but this is not the case...
Checkout the link below... Yes the graphic and commit refer to how close we have drawn to the Arses revenue which we know is a combination of us getting into the CL and them not. The impact is huge and if we continue this next year in the UCL with them in the UEL I can see us overhauling them in the not too distant future.
I also like the visbile revenue growth we see from Man$hitty and their Petro$$ considering we had the 2010/11 CL revenue stream that they didn't yet they could Pi$$ into the trough and it never stopped even to this day primarly through dodgy deals. Granted their World Model of establishing $hitty branded feeder clubs all over the world has helped with additional revenue streams (player transfers)...
So no matter how much you and Bill Madrid or the despisable so called baldy spurs fan with his bile say. We owe Levy more than you can probably imagine.
For me.. The legacy Levy will leave is equal to or greater than any other Chairman in the EPL era and if we start to accumulate the silverware in our shiny new stadium then he becomes greater
In 10 years time, my 12 year old son and his generation will be going to WHL and reap the greatest rewards
Oh and we have moved ourself into the European Elite despite not winning a trophy only the blind cannot see that
COYS!!!!!
Fair enough, mate - I agree the stadium and training ground are great (the stadium will be bloody fantastic), and I've praised Levy for the stadium in particular multiple times in that thread.
They're definitely not frauds. They aren't, and I don't think I've ever argued that. But I have argued that they're just competent, and they run the club with the club's own money. My objection is that they have no real skin in the game, because all they do is manage the club semi-effectively without putting anything in themselves... and that they're content with the lowest-risk option all the time on the football side of things, even when the team sometimes badly needs a bit of risk (like now).
I really don't know who that is, tbh. I think it might be Harry Hotspur? If so, I've never visited his site, and never will - I've heard enough about it to last me a lifetime.
No arguments re: revenue. Our revenue is steadily growing, and will likely overhaul Arsenal's until they get back into the CL, at which point the roles will reverse. As I mentioned to @imcallingbullsh*t , we're copying their model, so we'll have similar finances considering the explosion in PL TV value in the post-2010 era.
But will that translate into investment in the team? I don't know if it will. My abiding fear is that ENIC will just use it to pay off the debt, and let us stagnate as our stars leave because we never win anything. Certainly, they've done that over the last year, and before that, they ran a 'zero net spend' policy for a full decade. The football side, as I said, seems secondary to them.
Emirates Marketing Project is run by a human rights-abusing Sheikh from a despotic country. They have ways to get around FFP. We're fully agreed there.
I don't know what we owe him, to be honest. As mentioned, he has't put anything in (neither has Joe Lewis), but he's used the club's own money in a competent fashion over twenty years. He's guaranteed 250m or so when we're sold, though (based on his ownership stake) - so I think that will cover his contribution, and then some. Re: his legacy, he'll have left us the stadium and training ground - but I just find it a bit hard to imagine putting up a statue to a chairman who led us to one league cup in 20 years.
I hope so, mate. I hope your son and his generation see all the success that I never got to see as kid - hell, I hope that, when I have a kid, they'll grow up in a world where Spurs never have to be belittled for not having won things, because we will have won f*cking *everything*.
I just really doubt that it will happen with the model ENIC employ now, and that they've employed for twenty years. It's too risk-free, too low-cost, too stagnant, imo.
Given that not a single player has wanted to join us for a full calendar year now, I think we should hold off a bit on that whole 'European elite' thing.
Cheers for the long response, mate. I really enjoyed reading it.
A)
We have chosen a method of trying to build infrastructure and a secure base, to stop becoming a cup every 10yrs club. Is our model better than chelsea's, i would say yes in the long term.
Yes they have won a lot in 10yrs hence the long term argument, they currently have large debts to their owner, but are behind us again in the league,
Arsenal are a fair comparison, however they started from a higher base both on and off field than us, they are now also behind us, on the pitch with us close off the pitch
City - well are a law to their own
Liverpool are build on a historical success we never had
Utd - Same as lIverpool
I would say we are in a group of teams with, Forest, Leeds, Everton etc and even then thats flattering us, but we are in a group of teams with previous success, but in no way can say we are are a big team, but are the only ones who have managed to fight out of the pack in the new modern financial age.
B) its relevant in that you view spurs through a screen, its not a dig, if i was in your position my opinion would probably be more aligned to yours, getting up at 3am to watch games consistently (or whatever people have to do) is to be admired and i wouldn't totally belittle that. However thinking that its the same as being a ST holder or regularly going to games is not correct, foreign fans experience is not the same, just as those who go to away games is not the same as home games.
Some people watch the game from a sofa, that means they dont see the runs off the ball, but they see better analysis, each to their own, but the way you consume the game and the club will of course influence your viewpoint
But will that translate into investment in the team? I don't know if it will. My abiding fear is that ENIC will just use it to pay off the debt, and let us stagnate as our stars leave because we never win anything. Certainly, they've done that over the last year
This. People just want to get angry about stuff.If all Enic care about is money and if they are building the club to sell it to some major money man for a huge profit, somthing that is often said, with some venom at times it must be said, then surely this is what the ENic out rude boys want? They want the club sold to someone willing to invest, big money men are only willing to invest in product which Enic are building, therefore if their legacy is selling the club to a Cash Rich owner based on where they have taken the club then I don't see how or why thats levelled at Lewis as a negative? Its surely a win win win if that happens?
And even if they did make a big profit, they'd be leaving us with a world class stadium, training ground, players, and manager.If all Enic care about is money and if they are building the club to sell it to some major money man for a huge profit, somthing that is often said, with some venom at times it must be said, then surely this is what the ENic out rude boys want? They want the club sold to someone willing to invest, big money men are only willing to invest in product which Enic are building, therefore if their legacy is selling the club to a Cash Rich owner based on where they have taken the club then I don't see how or why thats levelled at Lewis as a negative? Its surely a win win win if that happens?
And even if they did make a big profit, they'd be leaving us with a world class stadium, training ground, players, and manager.
Are we finally getting to the real issue here?I've said it before, but no, they haven't. Check it, if you don't believe me. They've actually cleared off far more in terms of converting debt to equity than they've ever added on.
As for the 'model' we operate under, this is an aside, but (with all due respect), the sense of moral superiority over our model seems a little strange to me. What's so moral about being run the way we are, as a cheap vehicle to flip for enormous profits with no investment required on the owner's part?
If we were run with a focus on affordable tickets for local fans, great, no complaints from me - we're run sustainably, and *morally*. If we were run in a way that puts large amounts into our Trust every season, great - no complaints from me, we're run sustainably and *morally*.
That is moral. Being some cheap flip-on for a tax exile billionaire in the Bahamas who made his money shorting the pound on Black Wednesday? Charging the highest ticket prices in the league in the process? Not even paying a living wage to our staff?
What is moral about that? With all due respect, it's just a little strange to me.