Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Bedfordspurs]

It was. We had a great chance to build this summer and botched it. Not only have Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and City improved compared to us (thankfully United are imploding) but our players haven’t had the boost of new players coming in to push them on.

Arsenal improved?

You seen their defence ?

They actually brought some players and look worse IMO

City brought one squad player. Their not currently as good as they were last year but will still walk the league IMO

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Sorry to but in but why do people think it is our fans’ jobs to come up with suggestions as to who we should buy? There are players out there who can improve us. For some to suggest we are in a position where we can’t improve is nonsense and far fetched.

How many people would have suggested we buy Trippier for example? How many on here mentioned Dele Alli as a serious option in attacking midfield? I’m sure a 16 year old Danny Rose was also not a popular choice as LB amongst our fan base before we signed him.

Taking the statement without context, in the sense that there are no players out there better than what we have, it is obviously false. I’m sure Bale would improve us. I’m sure there are some great young players out there that would be great additions. But when you consider everything, it isn’t an easy question to answer, and like @Gazza Dazzla says, every time the question is asked, no real answer is forthcoming.

We are at a point where we are pushing at the limits of what we can do with our current financial situation, and this squad in a lot of ways is coming to the end of its time together. 3/4 years ago, we had space in the squad that we could offer to a Dele, to a Trippier, and we could give them the time to establish themselves or improve without the pressure of immediate expectation.

Right now, we don’t have those same spaces. Particularly when we weren’t able to shift out the players that we wanted to sell. When you combine that with our financial situation in comparison to rivals, and the fact that this squad is coming towards the latter stages of a journey together, it’s a very difficult question to answer.

If we could have sold one or all of Toby, Rose, Wanyama, and Dembele, I’m sure we would have replaced them. And we would have signed ‘improvements’. But we didn’t. We’ll probably do it next summer. So beyond that, where are the obvious improvements we should have signed? Did we need to sign another CB considering we already have Sanchez and Foyth? Which CB would have been obviously better than them? Another DM, definitely better than Dier and Wanyama? (Wanyama was a beast pre-injury, and the fact that he had had those problems means he’s happier with a squad / back up position). The obvious attackers better than Moura, Lamela, Son?

Our squad is so talented and I think people forget that. It’s been assumed Toby was out the door so needed to be replaced, but that isn’t what happened. It’s been assumed Rose was gone and had lost it anyway, but he’s playing better than he has played for 2 years right now. Most of our players just need trust, and a run of games because they’ve dealt with serious injury problems over the last couple of years. But they haven’t lost their talent. And they know the club, the system, the league. Signing new players into that rather than trusting the talent we already have is never a guarantee.

I’m not saying it’s a title challenging squad necessarily, because City have more depth - and can pay larger basic salaries to players to be squad players compared to us. But that is our next part of progression, and we just need better finances (stadium / new owners) to get there. For where we are right now though, I’m confident we are pushing at the limits of our potential, and that the club did everything to keep us pushing as much as possible.

 

[JerusalemMan]

I'm not sure how unhappy Poch actually is with Levy after the summer.

We know so little. It is probably fair conjecture to assume that - given the nature of the squad - Poch agreed that certain players were okay to be sold and that replacements were identified.
But beyond that, we don't know how much effort was made to sell them, what sort of offers (if any) really did come in, whether players really did reject moves away from the club.
Again the conjecture - failure to sell players was the primary blockage to bringing anyone in (bar the late Grealish bid). Poch is privy to a much closer view of how negotiations went and what caused failures.
In view of his better position, he may not be pleased with the outcome but be very understanding of why it all happened.

 

[DeanoAustin]

It’s like Groundhog Day here! The reply to this every single time is who would you have bought and for how much? Not one person has managed to come up with an answer yet.

It’s not my job to come up with players. I don’t watch world football or get paid as a scout.

But I will say this. Robbie Keane said in public that Levy told him that Levy and Poch had identified 4 players they seriously wanted. So there were 4 players out there who could have improved the squad, were realistic targets and we didn’t get one of them. Levy failed to give the squad the freshness and improvement that all of our rivals managed.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

It’s not my job to come up with players. I don’t watch world football or get paid as a scout.

But I will say this. Robbie Keane said in public that Levy told him that Levy and Poch had identified 4 players they seriously wanted. So there were 4 players out there who could have improved the squad, were realistic targets and we didn’t get one of them. Levy failed to give the squad the freshness and improvement that all of our rivals managed.

Presumably at least one of those was a Toby replacement, though, and we have accepted the financial risk implicit in keeping him for this season.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Presumably at least one of those was a Toby replacement, though, and we have accepted the financial risk implicit in keeping him for this season.

Maybe, maybe not. Keane simply said that Levy wouldn’t pay for the players on the list because the asking price was too high.

Whenever this gets discussed, I find people do mental gymnastics to construct a narrative that makes us look great. And it’s a Spurs board so I get that but at some stage, you have to call a spade a spade. Yeah Moura is improving, yeah Lamela is back, yeah Toby is back. But they aren’t new signings. Jan, Dembele, Toby are looking a bit like they are on the way down. Dier isn’t playing at all well. There is some ebb and flow there.

The window was introduced in 2003. Thats 15 years. There are 20 clubs. That’s 300 windows. This season, we are the only one in 300 windows not to sign a player.

Even the top clubs have signed players every season to keep it fresh. The manager clearly wanted players and didn’t get them. He’s a fella who is all about the collective and he’s been forced to reintegrate players he’d probably written off. It was a bad window.

I’m not saying it’s the end of the world. It isn’t. But it’s left a manager with an already tough job in an even more difficult position.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

Maybe, maybe not. Keane simply said that Levy wouldn’t pay for the players on the list because the asking price was too high.

Whenever this gets discussed, I find people do mental gymnastics to construct a narrative that makes us look great. And it’s a Spurs board so I get that but at some stage, you have to call a spade a spade. Yeah Moura is improving, yeah Lamela is back, yeah Toby is back. But they aren’t new signings. Jan, Dembele, Toby are looking a bit like they are on the way down. Dier isn’t playing at all well. There is some ebb and flow there.

The window was introduced in 2003. Thats 15 years. There are 20 clubs. That’s 300 windows. This season, we are the only one in 300 windows not to sign a player.

Even the top clubs have signed players every season to keep it fresh. The manager clearly wanted players and didn’t get them. He’s a fella who is all about the collective and he’s been forced to reintegrate players he’d probably written off. It was a bad window.

I’m not saying it’s the end of the world. It isn’t. But it’s left a manager with an already tough job in an even more difficult position.

Yeah, nothing to disagree with there.

 

[StephenH]

My suspicions to all things new signings is a simple inability to sign the quality of player we need at the price we can afford.
We will get players signed up to good contracts and then 'wing it' at every transfer window for 'some while'.

"Some while" now there is the big question.

With the likes of Mbappe being rumoured to at £200m, we are on a hiding to nil with the average players now being £60-90m and I'm seriously not sure Levy has any wiggle room due to our new stadium. Please do not say 'but they said it would not impact on transfers', just don't!

The only thing that surprises me, is that we are surprised.
You cannot finance the amounts required for the current stadium from financial 'slight of hand'. There is always a negative impact on non-oil rich clubs.

 

[thfcsteff]

It’s not my job to come up with players. I don’t watch world football or get paid as a scout.

But I will say this. Robbie Keane said in public that Levy told him that Levy and Poch had identified 4 players they seriously wanted. So there were 4 players out there who could have improved the squad, were realistic targets and we didn’t get one of them. Levy failed to give the squad the freshness and improvement that all of our rivals managed.

Do you not believe what has been said here (by me admittedly!) that
1) Poch likes a tight squad and
2) the inability of Alderweireld, Rose and Dembele to name three NOT to get a move due to their wage demands was a key factor in fudging our window? Those players are too big in all senses to keep on the sidelines.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[glorygloryeze]

Do you not believe what has been said here (by me admittedly!) that
1) Poch likes a tight squad and
2) the inability of Alderweireld, Rose and Dembele to name three NOT to get a move due to their wage demands was a key factor in fudging our window? Those players are too big in all senses to keep on the sidelines.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

One could then ask: when Poch said about 'being brave' was that also in terms of quickly just 'taking a hit' on the sales of these guys early so that we could quickly get in replacements?

I really doubt Poch signed his new deal (which he really didn't need to do at teh time, given he had 3 years left) without assurances that Levy/The Board would indeed 'be brave'...

 

[glorygloryeze]

He's making the case that he needs to sign more ready made players because of where the squad is now, rather than lower league players that would need time to settle. We got somewhat lucky with Dele, but this was still in the Ryan Mason era where youngsters had a lower bar to reach. He's making a fair point that Bale, Walker, Rose etc took years to reach the level required, and it is right to say we almost sold Bale, because we nearly did.

I don't think Poch says something unless it is quite calculated. He has his reason for doing this.

My worry is that these quotes are indeed VERY calculated...and we all know that Levy doesn't like the spotlight from the media shining upon him, especially if his own coach has directed said spotlight...

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe, maybe not. Keane simply said that Levy wouldn’t pay for the players on the list because the asking price was too high.

Whenever this gets discussed, I find people do mental gymnastics to construct a narrative that makes us look great. And it’s a Spurs board so I get that but at some stage, you have to call a spade a spade. Yeah Moura is improving, yeah Lamela is back, yeah Toby is back. But they aren’t new signings. Jan, Dembele, Toby are looking a bit like they are on the way down. Dier isn’t playing at all well. There is some ebb and flow there.

The window was introduced in 2003. Thats 15 years. There are 20 clubs. That’s 300 windows. This season, we are the only one in 300 windows not to sign a player.

Even the top clubs have signed players every season to keep it fresh. The manager clearly wanted players and didn’t get them. He’s a fella who is all about the collective and he’s been forced to reintegrate players he’d probably written off. It was a bad window.

I’m not saying it’s the end of the world. It isn’t. But it’s left a manager with an already tough job in an even more difficult position.

As you know I have said consistently that Alderweireld is on the way down and I would’ve been happy to sell him. Moose? Squad player is fine but again, better gone to free the squad space up.

Of course there are players we won’t pay for because we cannot afford them. If you are looking at two 80-100 mill players I am not surprised!

But IMO this window had little to do with that and much more to do with numbers.

You are right in so much as narratives can be rewritten, but there is little doubt that Poch wanted a tight squad and four upgraded who priced themselves out of a move. Most intriguing was Grealish, who I wonder about. Was he deemed another potential Nkoudou/Janssen type squaddie gamble?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[DeanoAustin]

Do you not believe what has been said here (by me admittedly!) that
1) Poch likes a tight squad and
2) the inability of Alderweireld, Rose and Dembele to name three NOT to get a move due to their wage demands was a key factor in fudging our window? Those players are too big in all senses to keep on the sidelines.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Was it down to wage demands or was it Levy looking for too high a price? If it was the former and we adamantly wanted them out, there is one way to do it. “Lads, ye all have one decent contract in ye. Don’t hold out for unrealistic wages or you’ll be sitting in the stands for a season and you’ll have no chance of getting a decent wage next season.”

We kept Toby and Rose on the sidelines for a good chunk of last season.

Not saying that’s what we should have done but if getting players the manager wanted absolutely depended on moving on Rose, Dembele and Toby, that’s what we could have done.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We were the only team in the league not to strengthen our squad this summer. We finished 3rd last season, miles behind the winners, but not too far behind the second place team so the question is whether we have enough in the tank to remain in third place.

On the one had you could argue perhaps not considering that both Liverpool and Chelsea have strengthened considerably. However we may just get lucky via a Man Utd, Mourinho inspired implosion.

 

[StephenH]

We were the only team in the league not to strengthen our squad this summer. We finished 3rd last season, miles behind the winners, but not too far behind the second place team so the question is whether we have enough in the tank to remain in third place.

On the one hand, you could argue perhaps not considering that both Liverpool and Chelsea have strengthened considerably. However we may just get lucky via a Man Utd, Mourinho inspired implosion.

Chelsea will probably be favourites for 3rd and ON CURRENT FORM it is us vs Arsenal for 4/5th. United could still get their brick together though.

With Watford, Wolves, Everton and West Ham, yes West Ham potentially sticking some spanners (or should that be 'hammers?) in the works for Man U, Arsenal and ourselves.
Top 3 is as now IMHO. But it is only Oct 1st.

 

[Baleforce]

transfers are not the only way to strengthen your squad, you can do it on the training pitch and with the youngsters too

 

[Spur of the moment]

Maybe, maybe not. Keane simply said that Levy wouldn’t pay for the players on the list because the asking price was too high.

Whenever this gets discussed, I find people do mental gymnastics to construct a narrative that makes us look great. And it’s a Spurs board so I get that but at some stage, you have to call a spade a spade. Yeah Moura is improving, yeah Lamela is back, yeah Toby is back. But they aren’t new signings. Jan, Dembele, Toby are looking a bit like they are on the way down. Dier isn’t playing at all well. There is some ebb and flow there.

The window was introduced in 2003. Thats 15 years. There are 20 clubs. That’s 300 windows. This season, we are the only one in 300 windows not to sign a player.

Even the top clubs have signed players every season to keep it fresh. The manager clearly wanted players and didn’t get them. He’s a fella who is all about the collective and he’s been forced to reintegrate players he’d probably written off. It was a bad window.

I’m not saying it’s the end of the world. It isn’t. But it’s left a manager with an already tough job in an even more difficult position.

Oh do lighten up Deano! If You Know Your History (!) you will recall that the last time Tottenham, having just finished third, then failed to bring in a single player during the close season they went on to win the League and FA Cup Double.

Point is they had a settled squad of mostly expensive imports brought in during previous seasons, to which was added a few quality home-growns. So the entire squad had gelled over a decent period and had the chance to hone and perfect the system the manager wanted them to play.

Doubtless you will point out that such an achievement is completely irrelevant in the modern era and whilst I'd agree the chances of the present squad even coming near to emulating that glorious Double-winning squad are remote, those same underlying fundamentals remain important ingredients to any side aspiring to win major honours.

 

[StephenH]

transfers are not the only way to strengthen your squad, you can do it on the training pitch and with the youngsters too

Yes, true but it takes years. Ask Roman Abramovic.
I think we are doing a good job academy wise.
But we are in danger of falling between two stools, with no time to bring players through and no money to buy players to give the academy players the time to learn.

 

[Baleforce]

Yes, true but it takes years. Ask Roman Abramovic.
I think we are doing a good job academy wise.
But we are in danger of falling between two stools, with no time to bring players through and no money to buy players to give the academy players the time to learn.

I take exception to the idea that we have automatically regressed, ignoring the youth for the moment, simply having another pre season with our coaching staff should make our players better, one or two are obviously approaching the knackers yard and will drop off, but the bulk of our squad are mid twenties, they should be improving, if not then thats where the failure is, not the transfer committee for refusing to overpay in a crazy market

Keane's comments about us having strong interest in certain players but baulking at the price is being spun into a negative when it's exactly the kind of management that has got us to where we are

 

[StephenH]

I take exception to the idea that we have automatically regressed, ignoring the youth for the moment, simply having another pre season with our coaching staff should make our players better, one or two are obviously approaching the knackers yard and will drop off, but the bulk of our squad are mid twenties, they should be improving, if not then thats where the failure is, not the transfer committee for refusing to overpay in a crazy market

Keane's comments about us having strong interest in certain players but baulking at the price is being spun into a negative when it's exactly the kind of management that has got us to where we are

Haven’t read Keane’ comments!