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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Seedy Ron said:
His aura will get heavier as his winning mentality increases, so he'll shrink like a little old lady.

Wiki says he's a shade under 6ft, and Tobias has 5cm on him, and they're never wrong.
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Have you met/seen many celebrities footballers etc ?... their agents must be talking some gaff when they give their details across. It seems like they add a couple of inches on their details ... either that i just morph instantly into someone taller
 
billyiddo said:
David Dein leaving too i believe - that's the one a lot of them don't like
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That killed their momentum for sure. Interestingly, we are not set up that way. I genuinely believe that if we start to take pots, Poch could be with us for another decade...my belief is that if he can he would want to do that before managing Argentina.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
He identified good players and developed them in to great players and a team. How is it different to Wenger going in at Arsenal and immediately buying Viera, Anelka, Petit, then a couple of years later Henry, Overmars, etc.? Wenger knew the French academy and mined it. Once that inside knowledge had gone and the players were older / moved on, so did Arsenal’s competitiveness. Fergie was able to continually rebuild sides, Wenger could “only” manage one.

Arsenal spent an absolute fortune as well on transfers and wages, there wasn’t that much of a difference between there’s and Utds spending back in the day (Utd would have spent more but not that much more).
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This...

532ECF44-31A4-449C-9C50-0B7C4EBC5736.jpeg

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...pending-from-the-200001-season-to-201112.html
 
Where's the scale? We spent nearly a lion's chin, I see.

Edit: Leeds' wage spend £37m, Wolves' wage spend £19.3m, yet Wolves' red bar is only about 1/12 the width of the Leeds one? Leeds' net transfer spend £-20.6m, Wolves' net transfer spend £+7.95m. And their total bar widths are somehow equal? Not a great job on the visuals IMO.
 
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alekaras said:
If clubs with infinitely more resources than us win it all these years, yet we manage to finish consistently second above other clubs with also infinitely more resources than us, then yes, I would say that shows a winning mentality.

But that all depends on how you define "winning mentality." What is is it? Does it even exist, or is it just something that's thrown about after the fact with no real definition? I personally don't think it exists. What does exist, however, is self-belief, striving to get better, and never-say-die attitude. You roll all these together and, if you have the quality too, should expect to win every game. Of course you will not win every game, but it won't be because you lack these attributes. And if it so happens that someone else bests you, it doesn't mean you lose all these attributes all of a sudden.

Now if you want to continue arguing about "winning mentality" go ahead. But it's like arguing about what is happiness or what is the best color. Totally pointless and will never get agreement from everyone.
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Does a winning mentality even exist? I don't see how anyone who watches sports with any regularity can actually ask this question to be honest.

That kind of mentality is how Man Utd beat Arsenal in the FA cup once with a midfield of O'Shea, Fabio, Gibson, Rafael, a midfield that in most seasons would probably get you relegated.

I don't see how it is like arguing about happiness whatsoever. Nobody is denying that happiness is a real thing. Some people are claiming that a winning mentality may not be a real thing, while some others seem to be claiming you can carry on forever, never winning any trophies (ie literally the point of any elite level sport) and still have a winning mentality.

I feel peoples' views have been hardened, perhaps by what they feel is an over the top criticism of our mentality in the media, to then take the complete opposite view, even if it may not be what they actually believe themselves. Who knows.

But you're right, if we're so far apart that you think after 10 years of not winning a trophy that we still have a winning mentality, then there perhaps isn't much point in continuing this discussion.

Incidentally, I've seen a few people talk about whether the Chelsea result showed a winning mentality. 100% yes imo.
 
Hootnow said:
But you're right, if we're so far apart that you think after 10 years of not winning a trophy that we still have a winning mentality, then there perhaps isn't much point in continuing this discussion.
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Argghhhhh .. must not respond ... leave dead equine alone ... fudge it ...


Can we just be clear on this

Fact 1 - Football teams are not evenly matched - Barca, Bayern, Real are all a level above in talent, experience and squad depth to everyone else in the world as an example

based on that, you either believe

A. That winning mentality can overcome any gap in ability, in which case we should see the occasional non Spain/England/Germany/Italy side win the CL with their winning mentality?
B. Everyone bar those teams does not have a winning mentality, in which case is winning mentality a thing, or just the best players money can buy?

The reason Spurs hasn't won a trophy in 10 years is because for at least 6-7 of those, we simply weren't good enough -> Gomes, Friedel, Dawson, Vlad, Scott Parker, Kranjcar, Bentley, Jenas, Bentley, JD, Pav, Keane, Palacios, Lennon (and those were the better players) simply aren't trophy winning or title challenging level players. They all fit a West Ham, Everton type profile more than a top 4 profile.

Not good enough is a much better explanation that some imaginary mentality/bottler concept.
 
Raziel said:
Argghhhhh .. must not respond ... leave dead equine alone ... fudge it ...


Can we just be clear on this

Fact 1 - Football teams are not evenly matched - Barca, Bayern, Real are all a level above in talent, experience and squad depth to everyone else in the world as an example

based on that, you either believe

A. That winning mentality can overcome any gap in ability, in which case we should see the occasional non Spain/England/Germany/Italy side win the CL with their winning mentality?
B. Everyone bar those teams does not have a winning mentality, in which case is winning mentality a thing, or just the best players money can buy?

The reason Spurs hasn't won a trophy in 10 years is because for at least 6-7 of those, we simply weren't good enough -> Gomes, Friedel, Dawson, Vlad, Scott Parker, Kranjcar, Bentley, Jenas, Bentley, JD, Pav, Keane, Palacios, Lennon (and those were the better players) simply aren't trophy winning or title challenging level players. They all fit a West Ham, Everton type profile more than a top 4 profile.

Not good enough is a much better explanation that some imaginary mentality/bottler concept.
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What are you talking about? Who said all football clubs are evenly matched? What is the point of creating strawmen arguments to try to discredit someone else's opinions?

You haven't read the post properly (or indeed the context behind it) as the whole conversation was based on whether people would still say we have a winning mentality if, 6 years from now, (ie a total of 10 years under Poch) we haven't won any trophies. What exactly that has to do with Bentley, Pav, Parker and Friedel etc I have no idea.

Again, I didn't mention anything about bottling. You're projecting your own views onto mine. Which links in to what I said about peoples' opinions being hardened because they feel certain media or opposition fan criticism has been over the top and so go the other extreme.
 
Hootnow said:
What are you talking about? Who said all football clubs are evenly matched? What is the point of creating strawmen arguments to try to discredit someone else's opinions?

You haven't read the post properly (or indeed the context behind it) as the whole conversation was based on whether people would still say we have a winning mentality if, 6 years from now, (ie a total of 10 years under Poch) we haven't won any trophies. What exactly that has to do with Bentley, Pav, Parker and Friedel etc I have no idea.

Again, I didn't mention anything about bottling. You're projecting your own views onto mine. Which links in to what I said about peoples' opinions being hardened because they feel certain media or opposition fan criticism has been over the top and so go the other extreme.
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That wasn't the context i was having this debate in tbh it was about this team over the past couple of seasons and where we are now - in 6 years time we will be a completely different team and have no relevance to our current teams mentality
 
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Hootnow said:
Does a winning mentality even exist? I don't see how anyone who watches sports with any regularity can actually ask this question to be honest.

That kind of mentality is how Man Utd beat Arsenal in the FA cup once with a midfield of O'Shea, Fabio, Gibson, Rafael, a midfield that in most seasons would probably get you relegated.

I don't see how it is like arguing about happiness whatsoever. Nobody is denying that happiness is a real thing. Some people are claiming that a winning mentality may not be a real thing, while some others seem to be claiming you can carry on forever, never winning any trophies (ie literally the point of any elite level sport) and still have a winning mentality.

I feel peoples' views have been hardened, perhaps by what they feel is an over the top criticism of our mentality in the media, to then take the complete opposite view, even if it may not be what they actually believe themselves. Who knows.

But you're right, if we're so far apart that you think after 10 years of not winning a trophy that we still have a winning mentality, then there perhaps isn't much point in continuing this discussion.

Incidentally, I've seen a few people talk about whether the Chelsea result showed a winning mentality. 400% yes imo.
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A one-off does not a winning mentality make. Just because Yanited beat Woolwich in that FA Cup final doesn’t mean squat. “Winning mentality” is a term that has been coined to assign some mythical attribute to a team after the fact. Otherwise all the teams that have a “winning mentality” would win all the time. But that is not the case, because there are so many other factors that come into play.

All a team can do is work hard, believe in itself, never give up, play like a team and not a collection of individuals, and also have sufficient quality to boot. These are tangible things and a team that has them will win more often than not. But sometimes even that might not result in trophies, because of so many other factors: bad calls, another team having a freak season, injuries, the list goes on. We may win 37 of 38 games in the PL and still lose the title on GD to another team that has also won 37 of 38. I know this is an extreme example, but would you say that such a team did not demonstrate all the attributes needed to win? Did the other team have a “winning mentality” and we didn’t in this case?

When City won the title in 2012 did they do it because they had a “winning mentality?” No. They just didn’t give up, even though they were 5 points behind the team with the winningest mentality in Yanited with 4 games to go, and 2-1 down in the 91st minute of the last game and needed to win. So I will stand by what I said that there is no such thing as “winning mentality.” There is just self-belief and a never-say-die attitude. Sometimes you will end up winning and sometimes you won’t.
 
billyiddo said:
That wasn't the context i was having this debate in tbh it was about this team over the past couple of seasons
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What do you mean it wasn't the context you were having this debate in?

I was responding to a poster answering my question. That question was literally solely based on whether people would say we have a winning mentality if after another 6 years, we still hadn't won anything.

Surely then, in this little sidebar, that is the entire context of this discussion?
 
Hootnow said:
What do you mean it wasn't the context you were having this debate in?

I was responding to a poster answering my question. That question was literally solely based on whether people would say we have a winning mentality if after another 6 years, we still hadn't won anything.

Surely then, in this little sidebar, that is the entire context of this discussion?
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Sorry mate i thought you were refering to the debate as a whole - the part i had bolded in your quote does read that way tbf
 
Hootnow said:
What are you talking about? Who said all football clubs are evenly matched? What is the point of creating strawmen arguments to try to discredit someone else's opinions?

You haven't read the post properly (or indeed the context behind it) as the whole conversation was based on whether people would still say we have a winning mentality if, 6 years from now, (ie a total of 10 years under Poch) we haven't won any trophies. What exactly that has to do with Bentley, Pav, Parker and Friedel etc I have no idea.

Again, I didn't mention anything about bottling. You're projecting your own views onto mine. Which links in to what I said about peoples' opinions being hardened because they feel certain media or opposition fan criticism has been over the top and so go the other extreme.
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Apologies mate, guess similar to @billyiddo I thought your quote was attributable to the endless debate as a whole that has been chasing its own tail on this thread. (I thought you meant last 10 years)

Personally I think winning mentality is a unicorn, but to specifically answer your question re future state (i.e. next 6 years)

- If we kept this core team together (Jan, Sanchez, Dier, Kane, Dele, Erikson, Son, Kane w/Poch) for next 3-4 years, the league state stay similar (more on that in next point), it would be extremely disappointing. However if we came 2nd every year for next 4 years, made CL QF/SF and lost 3 domestic cup finals against City under Pep (if City spent another 100-300M each summer), not sure it's failure
- If 2 other City/Chelsea money doping clubs join the league, and Real/Barca/PSG grab 3 or our best players, then the next 4-6 years could look very different regardless of mentality.
 
Hootnow said:
What are you talking about? Who said all football clubs are evenly matched? What is the point of creating strawmen arguments to try to discredit someone else's opinions?

You haven't read the post properly (or indeed the context behind it) as the whole conversation was based on whether people would still say we have a winning mentality if, 6 years from now, (ie a total of 10 years under Poch) we haven't won any trophies. What exactly that has to do with Bentley, Pav, Parker and Friedel etc I have no idea.

Again, I didn't mention anything about bottling. You're projecting your own views onto mine. Which links in to what I said about peoples' opinions being hardened because they feel certain media or opposition fan criticism has been over the top and so go the other extreme.
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The way I read it, you infer that only clubs that win things can claim a winning mentality.

It is in that context @Raziels post made sense to me, IE - not all teams can actually win things, but teams with less resource can still display a winning mentality.
 
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