Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[harr1984]

This. It ain't rocket science. Poch talks about being brave; he needs to have the balls to GO FOR IT and really swamp a team, brick or bust, a point is almost no use to us really compared to the 3 3 3 3 3 3 we need

This is one of Pochs more uninspiring aspects,his substitutions. They are often predictable and too late, his subs rarely change a game. Say what you like about Mourinho but when he sees something he doesn't like, he changes it and quickly......

 

[StephenH]

You Sir, have the mood swings of a 6 year old girl

Mercurial to a fault me!

 

[Raziel]

This is one of Pochs more uninspiring aspects,his substitutions. They are often predictable and too late, his subs rarely change a game. Say what you like about Mourinho but when he sees something he doesn't like, he changes it and quickly......

Mate, subs only make sense if you have a bench capable of changing the game. fudging Mourinho has Ibra, Lukkaku, Rashford, Martial (to name just a few), that usually only 1 or 2 are in starting 11, lots of bench options.

With our injuries this season, at almost every game (except today's FA Cup) a sub is a step down.

To me, this is the same Poch has no Plan B conversation when he was at Southampton and first season at Spurs, it's a lack of understanding of what we have.

Our problem is not that Poch is late with subs, our problem is we have no subs for Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane and that is how our attack works (through those 4).

 

[Legohamster]

Sly little dig at the board after the game.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Mate, subs only make sense if you have a bench capable of changing the game. fudging Mourinho has Ibra, Lukkaku, Rashford, Martial (to name just a few), that usually only 1 or 2 are in starting 11, lots of bench options.

With our injuries this season, at almost every game (except today's FA Cup) a sub is a step down.

To me, this is the same Poch has no Plan B conversation when he was at Southampton and first season at Spurs, it's a lack of understanding of what we have.

Our problem is not that Poch is late with subs, our problem is we have no subs for Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane and that is how our attack works (through those 4).

Disagree....

Let's start with the choice of the bench... we nearly always have two fullbacks on the bench. How often have we needed to put both on? Practically never. So why lose a sub slot in this manner?

Secondly, to say we have no bench options is stretching it some, if not frankly ridiculous. How many teams have a better bench than Trippier, Rose, Dembele, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela and Llorente? Are you telling me that those players are unable to impact a game, especially with appropriate tweaks in tactics?

Finally, why have we never bought a half-decent pacy young player from the Championship? What greater coffers do the likes of Leicester or Everton have in buying the likes of Demarel Gray and Ademola Lookman? Why weren't we in for these players who would be possible options from the bench?

I can understand that we cannot have a like-for-like swap for the four players you mentioned - that is something than probably only the two Manchester clubs could afford. However to say that we are stuck with the starting eleven because we have no possible plan B options is something I cannot subscribe to....

 

[Olle73]

Our problem is not that Poch is late with subs, our problem is we have no subs for Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane and that is how our attack works (through those 4).

If you have come to conclusion that the current line-up will, most likely not give us the wanted results against the current opponent, what risk to do really takes to gamble? I mean, it can't be any worse.

 

[thfcsteff]

Answers in bold below mate under each point...

Disagree....

Let's start with the choice of the bench... we nearly always have two fullbacks on the bench. How often have we needed to put both on? Practically never. So why lose a sub slot in this manner?


Because his 'FBs' are essentially wing-backs, and often intrinsic to the way he wants to play/impress upon the game.


Secondly, to say we have no bench options is stretching it some, if not frankly ridiculous. How many teams have a better bench than Trippier, Rose, Dembele, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela and Llorente? Are you telling me that those players are unable to impact a game, especially with appropriate tweaks in tactics?


Errr...Rose, Dembele and Winks have all been carrying/have injuries recently. Lamela returned recently. As for better benches, Emirates Marketing Project, Man Utd, Chelski, Liverpool when all options available

Finally, why have we never bought a half-decent pacy young player from the Championship? What greater coffers do the likes of Leicester or Everton have in buying the likes of Demarel Gray and Ademola Lookman? Why weren't we in for these players who would be possible options from the bench?

Gray I don't know, not privy to the scouting reports. Lookman, I agree, looks a Poch player but Everton would be mental to sell.

I can understand that we cannot have a like-for-like swap for the four players you mentioned - that is something than probably only the two Manchester clubs could afford. However to say that we are stuck with the starting eleven because we have no possible plan B options is something I cannot subscribe to....


The manager changes shape and formation several times a game sometimes. The likes of Llorente offer a different dimension. What he is missing from the be ch is a dynamic impact player. He has tried with NJie and Nkoudou, and I believe he wanted Mane. This was always going to be the most difficult season in recent memory and we are on course to achieve goals necessary for the new stadium next season (which will also release the funds we need to really compete)...IMO

 

[the goat]

I agree with many on here that sub's is a weak point for Poch
when winning easily last season he never gave wimmer or CCV 10-15 min at the end of the game
this year he's stopped giving lads 5-10 mins at the end of games (something he's done other seasons)
today he tried something different at the start of the game (but how often has he tried it in training ?) so why not stick with both Kane & Llorente all the game, giving them a bit of real match time to work together
I was happy with the team he put out to start the game 2 lads (foyth & KWP) with experience around them to help,

 

[Raziel]

Disagree....

Let's start with the choice of the bench... we nearly always have two fullbacks on the bench. How often have we needed to put both on? Practically never. So why lose a sub slot in this manner?

Secondly, to say we have no bench options is stretching it some, if not frankly ridiculous. How many teams have a better bench than Trippier, Rose, Dembele, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela and Llorente? Are you telling me that those players are unable to impact a game, especially with appropriate tweaks in tactics?

Finally, why have we never bought a half-decent pacy young player from the Championship? What greater coffers do the likes of Leicester or Everton have in buying the likes of Demarel Gray and Ademola Lookman? Why weren't we in for these players who would be possible options from the bench?

I can understand that we cannot have a like-for-like swap for the four players you mentioned - that is something than probably only the two Manchester clubs could afford. However to say that we are stuck with the starting eleven because we have no possible plan B options is something I cannot subscribe to....

- why two fullbacks? = because our bench is typically keeper, 2X FB, CM, Striker +others (7 slots, no problems with number of subs) and FBs generally aren't interchangeable, hence we need the injury cover
- Better bench? -> Trippier, Rose, Dembele, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela and Llorente? so 4 of the players you quote have been injured for large parts of the season (see my point in original post) and the other 3 are a significant step down from best first team player (I'm sure someone thinks Trippier is better than Aurier, not me). The answer of how many teams has a better bench, probably all above us on the table at moment.
- Why not a pacey young winger? - in case you haven't noticed we have bought several players in that mold (latest being GKN), none have worked out, personally I think Poch favors a wing/striker type vs. outright winger and those are a lot more difficult to find.

To @thfcsteff's point -> we lack someone that will dynamically change the game, when we play Son off the bench you get that kind of change in directness/pace.

 

[glasgowspur]

Irrespective whether the guy is an ******* or not, it is a fact that we have repeatedly struggled against teams that park the bus at Wembley. The only two home games against "inferior" teams in which we have not laboured, were Stoke and Southampton - and in both of them we were lucky to get an early opening goal thanks to opposition blunders. Yes 'Chelsea, United, Scum, Pool all draw games they are "supposed to win" ' but these tend to be exceptional events. They consistently manage to overcome (often overwhelm) these types of teams either because they play fast one-touch football to open up the opposition (City / Scum) or else have players with exceptional ball control and dribbling skills who can disrupt the opposition banks of four (Chelsea and Pool). We seem unable to consistently do the former against packed defences; we can and do play fast incisive football but typically it is on the break against teams willing to take the game to us. And Poch has (?stubbornly) refused to sign a proper pacy dribbler, presumably because he does not believe in that type of player.

How often have we seen Poch make a tactical half-time substitution after 45 minutes in which we labour to break down a passive opposition? None that I can recollect. It seems he either gets the tactics spot on from the start (Dortmund, Madrid and Pool games spring to mind) or else it's status quo until the last 20 minutes; and even then it is typically like for like substitutions.

I have defended Sissoko in other posts but will be the first to agree he was useless on Thursday. And it was no surprise - this was a game which was absolutely unsuited to his playing style. I appreciate, that Poch may have felt the spammers would play a pressing game and maybe wanted his energy to compensate. After 30 minutes it was pretty obvious this was not the case and - for me - that was when he should have been bold enough to try something different. City also struggled against the Spammers; Guardiola withdrew a central defender and replaced him with a striker to overload the attack. It was certainly an option yesterday.

Nobody is saying that Poch has had an easy ride; or that he has not gotten better results than anyone since the days of Burkinshaw (and even then we were primarily a cup team). Above all, nobody in his right senses would want anyone else than Mauricio Pochettino as our coach.

However it is a fact that - if we genuinely want to get into next year's Champions League - drawing games at home against Burnley, Swansea, West Brom and the spammers is simply not acceptable.

Emirates Marketing Project have avoided drawing games this season by scoring in the 6th and 7th mins of added on time. Quite a feat when one if the games was supposed to send after 95 mins.
It's not always easy for other teams either.

 

[thfcsteff]

To @thfcsteff's point -> we lack someone that will dynamically change the game, when we play Son off the bench you get that kind of change in directness/pace.

Agreed, but I think that is unfair on a player who is clearly worthy of a first 11 spot and produces, furthermore it is unfair on Poch. A manager of his quality should have more than one dynamic presence off the bench IMO. Again I feel he has been fed NJie and NKoudou and telly needs more quality. How nice it would've been to pony up the cash for Lemar, though again, I understand wholeheartedly what this season is about and am in in no way blaming DL. It is what it is.

 

[harr1984]

Mate, subs only make sense if you have a bench capable of changing the game. fudging Mourinho has Ibra, Lukkaku, Rashford, Martial (to name just a few), that usually only 1 or 2 are in starting 11, lots of bench options.

With our injuries this season, at almost every game (except today's FA Cup) a sub is a step down.

To me, this is the same Poch has no Plan B conversation when he was at Southampton and first season at Spurs, it's a lack of understanding of what we have.

Our problem is not that Poch is late with subs, our problem is we have no subs for Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane and that is how our attack works (through those 4).

Sorry I just dont buy that - we mate not have an exactly star studded bench but we do have players who can make us alter the way we play. Sometimes Mourinho has changed things by bringing Fellani on, and Im not just talking about when he throws him up top for last ten minutes to get a goal...

 

[JerusalemMan]

GD........I'm not that clever mate.

I'm in the middle of my half yearly FA cup weekend football downer!
I'm bored rigid with this current season it has been far too predictable. The Tottenham Hotspurs 'plucky financially poor underdogs' tag, is wearing thin it get rolled every bloody transfer window. We will again huff and puff till we sell all our good players then..... It's a little like groundhog day. Not Levy's fault we are where we are and we are improving but it will sadly be with 'baby steps'.
As you say It's were the likes of City come into their own as they can afford to take punt on a player with little fear of any financial hit.

The CL wins were very good indeed, the group was though surprisingly weaker that we all at first thought.
Kane is a delight to watch but.....he is I'm afraid unlikely to stay because we will not win enough to keep him no matter how much we pay him. Pochettino has been excellent, but I very much doubt he can compensate for our current financial situation.

As I said my gloom will pass as it has done over the past few years........a good go at the FA Cup for once would definitely lighten my mood.

I'm struggling to remember any point in the last 5 years when we sold all our good players.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

We have routinely sold our best players to fund the strengthening of the squad as a whole, but thats a case of one every two or three years.

Ordinarily, and rather bizarrely, we tend to sell our unwanted players at sufficiently high prices to fund our business. Possibly Levy's greatest skill!

The only time I can think we sold "all our best players" was when we let Keane and Berbatov go in the same window.


Was a bit of a clear out actually, that 08/09 season Malbranque, Chimbonda, YP Lee, Kaboul, Robinson, Gardner, Tainio and Boateng also went!

 

[StephenH]

I'm struggling to remember any point in the last 5 years when we sold all our good players.

Bale sale is still sore only feels like yesterday.....
Actually it wasn't the sale that was as sad as that was the poor/unlucky use of the money that has lingered longer, mind Eriksen must be worth a fortune now and Lamela will worth a few bob when fully fit again. I was having a bad bout of football melancholia. Not helped by playing the Mrs at scrabble - she always wina

Edit - Oi Walker!

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Maybe it is too much to ask for posters to actually read a post before trying to blow it away???

-
why two fullbacks? = because our bench is typically keeper, 2X FB, CM, Striker +others (7 slots, no problems with number of subs) and FBs generally aren't interchangeable, hence we need the injury cover

Wow? Really?? My point was: how often - in the past two years - have we ever been constrained to put both fullbacks on because of injury? NEVER! For a "once in three years" situation where we may have no option but to put on a second fullback because of injury (which have never happened) we are losing a bench seat of an offensive player who can change a game. In addition, Trippier, Aurier and KWP can all play at left back.

-
- Better bench? -> Trippier, Rose, Dembele, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela and Llorente? so 4 of the players you quote have been injured for large parts of the season (see my point in original post) and the other 3 are a significant step down from best first team player (I'm sure someone thinks Trippier is better than Aurier, not me). The answer of how many teams has a better bench, probably all above us on the table at moment.

That's not the point! Other than at a team like City, every single sub is "a significant step down from the (equivalent) best first team player". I would fairly guess that - other than Foyth - every other outfield sub in Premiership games this season (even with injuries you mention) has been a full international. So was every one of them useless and without quality to make an impactful change? Especially - and this is the key point - when the games being mentioned were not those against the Manchester clubs but vs the likes of Swansea, Burnley and West Brom AT HOME!!

-
- Why not a pacey young winger? - in case you haven't noticed we have bought several players in that mold (latest being GKN), none have worked out, personally I think Poch favors a wing/striker type vs. outright winger and those are a lot more difficult to find.

Again - read the post please.... I said buy a "pacey young winger from a Championship side"; one who has shown he can do it in the English game - not some cheap shot-in-the-dark from the continent. What stopped us from going for the two players mentioned, when it was obvious they could fill a gap in our squad? I knew about them from a thousand miles away... is it possible our scouts didn't?

-
To @thfcsteff's point -> we lack someone that will dynamically change the game, when we play Son off the bench you get that kind of change in directness/pace.

It has been blindingly obvious that we need pace and trickery yet we have done SFA to address it for 5 transfer seasons at least...

At the end of the day, the argument revolves around having a plan B. Since B comes after A, more often than not, it is somewhat inferior with often less glamorous players; yet it can still be effective - as long as the tactics support it. The point being raised is that we still do not have a plan B - whether it is in purchasing players for it, making the tactical tweaks for it and - above all - being willing to take the risk to execute it.

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe it is too much to ask for posters to actually read a post before trying to blow it away???


Wow? Really?? My point was: how often - in the past two years - have we ever been constrained to put both fullbacks on because of injury? NEVER! For a "once in three years" situation where we may have no option but to put on a second fullback because of injury (which have never happened) we are losing a bench seat of an offensive player who can change a game. In addition, Trippier, Aurier and KWP can all play at left back.


That's not the point! Other than at a team like City, every single sub is "a significant step down from the (equivalent) best first team player". I would fairly guess that - other than Foyth - every other outfield sub in Premiership games this season (even with injuries you mention) has been a full international. So was every one of them useless and without quality to make an impactful change? Especially - and this is the key point - when the games being mentioned were not those against the Manchester clubs but vs the likes of Swansea, Burnley and West Brom AT HOME!!


Again - read the post please.... I said buy a "pacey young winger from a Championship side"; one who has shown he can do it in the English game - not some cheap shot-in-the-dark from the continent. What stopped us from going for the two players mentioned, when it was obvious they could fill a gap in our squad? I knew about them from a thousand miles away... is it possible our scouts didn't?


It has been blindingly obvious that we need pace and trickery yet we have done SFA to address it for 5 transfer seasons at least...

At the end of the day, the argument revolves around having a plan B. Since B comes after A, more often than not, it is somewhat inferior with often less glamorous players; yet it can still be effective - as long as the tactics support it. The point being raised is that we still do not have a plan B - whether it is in purchasing players for it, making the tactical tweaks for it and - above all - being willing to take the risk to execute it.

Can I ask, how were you in the days of Terry Neil, Neil McNabb and even moving at pace from those times, man in a raincoat and Ginger Pele?

As for not having a plan B, if you mean we do not have a geezer wot can sprint like a bastard and sling one in the box, well, we do. But it isn’t a good enough option to win games. And as mentioned before, Poch changes systems during games. Often.

Where I think everyone would agree is that we need to shop for (let Poch buy) a dynamic Rolls or Bentley rather than a Kia which looks similar but performs considerably worse.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[90291Spur]

Can I ask, how were you in the days of Terry Neil, Neil McNabb and even moving at pace from those times, man in a raincoat and Ginger Pele?

As for not having a plan B, if you mean we do not have a geezer wot can sprint like a bastard and sling one in the box, well, we do. But it isn’t a good enough option to win games. And as mentioned before, Poch changes systems during games. Often.

Where I think everyone would agree is that we need to shop for (let Poch buy) a dynamic Rolls or Bentley rather than a Kia which looks similar but performs considerably worse.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

We had one of those, and apart from THAT goal and kicking a ball into a skip(

), he wasn't all that.

 

[billyiddo]

can't help but think if the young hotshot from the Championship route didn't work you'd be in here saying we should be looking abroad instead of buying from the lower leagues

 

[parklane1]

Unfortunately or fortunately Football is unpredictable. Just because we appear on paper to have the better players than our opposition doesn’t mean we are guaranteed to win. It would be a bit boring then wouldn’t it. Sometimes, the other team actually turns up and sometimes that team is West Ham.

And it doesn’t just happen to us you know, it happens to other football clubs as well and their fans! I know, crazy right.

After a few days reflecting and reading some posts on here, I won’t judge Poch as he is the manager and knows what he is doing. I amongst everyone in this group would not have a scooby which team to select and what instructions to give that team going onto that pitch.

Good points made mate, however i will take exception with the bolded bit ( on behalf of all the armchair experts°)