• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

indianspur said:
If we had Bale or Debruyne or Aguero we still would have been blown away by Liverpool tonight

The tactics were just wrong. Away from home against our top 4 rivals we most of the time are never at the races. The same in cup games domestically and in europe.

He had a whole week to prepare the team to face Liverpool. It's been shown clearly the way to play them is to sit deep, deny them space behind and hit them on the break. It's not rocket science.

I don't want to knock him as he is doing a grand job. It's just that next step he needs to take. Chelsea at home where he went with a formation and tactics to outfox Conte was the first time I've seen Poch adapt his ways out of respect for the opposition. I thought wow he is maturing but then we get this tonight which was pathetic on so many
levels.

With the players we now have it will be disappointing if we don't win a trophy or two and have a few more seasons of CL football. To do that though Poch needs to get his tactics right in the big games.
Click to expand...

Me thinks you overrate the quality of the Spurs squad.
 
The players deserve 100% of the blame for that result.

Looked like scared children when Mane was running riot, Davies and Dier in particular.. But no one was up for it.

By the time we got any kind of forward momentum going it was too late in the day.

I feel like we rolled up expecting Liverpool to be brick. Eriksen, Dembele and Alli were all particularly poor.
 
indianspur said:
If we had Bale or Debruyne or Aguero we still would have been blown away by Liverpool tonight

The tactics were just wrong. Away from home against our top 4 rivals we most of the time are never at the races. The same in cup games domestically and in europe.

He had a whole week to prepare the team to face Liverpool. It's been shown clearly the way to play them is to sit deep, deny them space behind and hit them on the break. It's not rocket science.

I don't want to knock him as he is doing a grand job. It's just that next step he needs to take. Chelsea at home where he went with a formation and tactics to outfox Conte was the first time I've seen Poch adapt his ways out of respect for the opposition. I thought wow he is maturing but then we get this tonight which was pathetic on so many
levels.

With the players we now have it will be disappointing if we don't win a trophy or two and have a few more seasons of CL football. To do that though Poch needs to get his tactics right in the big games.
Click to expand...


excellent post.
 
nayenezgani said:
The players deserve 100% of the blame for that result.

Looked like scared children when Mane was running riot, Davies and Dier in particular.. But no one was up for it.

By the time we got any kind of forward momentum going it was too late in the day.

I feel like we rolled up expecting Liverpool to be bricke. Eriksen, Dembele and Alli were all particularly poor.
Click to expand...

Would agree with that, two of the reasons we got handed our arse yesterday are (a) Liverpool are not as bad as some Spurs fans try/suggest they are (b) Spurs ( us) are not as good as some of ( usually the same fans) think we are.

We are still growing as a team and we have a way to go to become the finished articule, some fans will not like to hear that but ( imo) its the reality of the situation.
 
I am sure he didn't ask them to go out there and play like they did in the first half but for me, at this stage of the season, against a top 4 competitor away from home, we should be going there and saying basically for the first 30 min's, no mistakes or sloppy play to put you under pressure, none of this insistence on playing out every single time when you are under pressure and just don't give the home side any reason to get their tails up. Exactly the same for the first 15-20 min's of the second half too. It gives you a solid base to work from and will quieten down the crowd.

I am sure that the players are experienced enough and smart enough football wise to know that and I would hope that Pochettino will have said just that to them prior to the game and that it was an aberration but the side keep trying to play out when under severe pressure and that must come from the manager. All for philosophy and all that jazz but there is a time and a place and only a fool would insist on continuing with a specific detail even when it is apparent that it is causing you problems.

His tactics at times away from just need to be cuter. He was handicapped by no Rose but that shouldn't mean the left hand side becomes a complete shambles. Going 3 at the back actually might have helped yesterday, even before the first goal.
 
Libero said:
I am sure he didn't ask them to go out there and play like they did in the first half but for me, at this stage of the season, against a top 4 competitor away from home, we should be going there and saying basically for the first 30 min's, no mistakes or sloppy play to put you under pressure, none of this insistence on playing out every single time when you are under pressure and just don't give the home side any reason to get their tails up. Exactly the same for the first 15-20 min's of the second half too. It gives you a solid base to work from and will quieten down the crowd.
Click to expand...

http://spielverlagerung.com/2017/02/12/mane-inspired-reds-in-transition-focused-victory/

Spielverlagerung agrees with you, more or less. Criticizes our desire to constantly play out even when it quickly became evident that Liverpool were dominating our hapless lads in transition areas and in half-spaces when they received the ball. I don't particularly agree that going long would have done much either given that we were utterly outmuscled and outplayed everwhere even when the ball was sent long - I *Do* think that perhaps sitting deep and abjuring any possession of the ball *at all* for the first 20-25 minutes would have radically changed the outcome of the game, since Liverpool wouldn't have gotten the boost they got from seeing how easy it was to press and win the ball, and we'd draw their sting prior to (hopefully) expanding our own efforts.
 
DubaiSpur said:
http://spielverlagerung.com/2017/02/12/mane-inspired-reds-in-transition-focused-victory/

Spielverlagerung agrees with you, more or less. Criticizes our desire to constantly play out even when it quickly became evident that Liverpool were dominating our hapless lads in transition areas and in half-spaces when they received the ball. I don't particularly agree that going long would have done much either given that we were utterly outmuscled and outplayed everwhere even when the ball was sent long - I *Do* think that perhaps sitting deep and abjuring any possession of the ball *at all* for the first 20-25 minutes would have radically changed the outcome of the game, since Liverpool wouldn't have gotten the boost they got from seeing how easy it was to press and win the ball, and we'd draw their sting prior to (hopefully) expanding our own efforts.
Click to expand...
I think we should have gone long, because a) we kept losing the ball playing out, and b) Liverpool's defence is their weak point. Janssen/Kane knocking down balls for Kane, Dele and Eriksen couldn't have been worse than what we produced.
 
I'd back Kane and Alli versus Matip and that short-ars.e Lucas Leiva. At least give them a chance to try it.
 
DubaiSpur said:
http://spielverlagerung.com/2017/02/12/mane-inspired-reds-in-transition-focused-victory/

Spielverlagerung agrees with you, more or less. Criticizes our desire to constantly play out even when it quickly became evident that Liverpool were dominating our hapless lads in transition areas and in half-spaces when they received the ball. I don't particularly agree that going long would have done much either given that we were utterly outmuscled and outplayed everwhere even when the ball was sent long - I *Do* think that perhaps sitting deep and abjuring any possession of the ball *at all* for the first 20-25 minutes would have radically changed the outcome of the game, since Liverpool wouldn't have gotten the boost they got from seeing how easy it was to press and win the ball, and we'd draw their sting prior to (hopefully) expanding our own efforts.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily advocate us playing long but for 10-15 min's I would have said let's get their full backs turned and facing their own goal and try to win the ball slightly higher up the pitch from the second/third ball as opposed to starting with possession in our own third and never managing to hold onto it long enough to enter the midfield with any meaningful possession. Whether I would have started with that in mind is very debateable but after the first 5 min's or so the warning signs were there.

To me that is just smart analysis of the game as it is in flux and managing the match through its troubling moments. Doesn't mean that you sacrifice the overall philosophy but more that you adapt until you find an equal footing or infact get on top. And I agree we should have started deeper and been quite compact initially so as to frustrate Liverpool and prevent them having any real space in behind just as others have done. Had we started like that then I would doubt very much that we would have had that 10 min's of consistent pressure that saw us lose 2 goals in 4 min's where we looked overloaded and unable to cope with the movement in behind and in between the lines. I also feel that the way Liverpool press is quite easy to overcome if you are prepared to all play in the manner that I have suggested. If you go long and by pass the press you can essentially make the game a 5 v 5 in their half off the second/third ball and play your style from there but everybody has to be switched on to that way of playing and be 'on it' from the very first whistle.
 
Libero said:
I don't necessarily advocate us playing long but for 10-15 min's I would have said let's get their full backs turned and facing their own goal and try to win the ball slightly higher up the pitch from the second/third ball as opposed to starting with possession in our own third and never managing to hold onto it long enough to enter the midfield with any meaningful possession. Whether I would have started with that in mind is very debateable but after the first 5 min's or so the warning signs were there.

To me that is just smart analysis of the game as it is in flux and managing the match through its troubling moments. Doesn't mean that you sacrifice the overall philosophy but more that you adapt until you find an equal footing or infact get on top. And I agree we should have started deeper and been quite compact initially so as to frustrate Liverpool and prevent them having any real space in behind just as others have done. Had we started like that then I would doubt very much that we would have had that 10 min's of consistent pressure that saw us lose 2 goals in 4 min's where we looked overloaded and unable to cope with the movement in behind and in between the lines. I also feel that the way Liverpool press is quite easy to overcome if you are prepared to all play in the manner that I have suggested. If you go long and by pass the press you can essentially make the game a 5 v 5 in their half off the second/third ball and play your style from there but everybody has to be switched on to that way of playing and be 'on it' from the very first whistle.
Click to expand...
It was also exactly the same in the Emirates Marketing Project away game a few weeks back. Sometimes you have to forget your principles and change the way you play to win the game.
 
I don't necessarily agree that we had to change tactics/philosophy in its entirety.
A slight/subtle alteration to shape would've shut Liverpool out. They had clearly targeted our left and were concentrating over 50% of their play down that side in the 1st half. Mane had the run on Davies and was getting no support. Why not shift/align the team more to the left side and block that area of the pitch up? Go to a more lop-sided 4-3-3 shape with Dembele in a deep left-midfield position, Wanayama deep in the centre with Eriksen alongside so you've lost no numerical advantage in central midfield. Leave Son higher up pressing the back 4 with Kane and Alli. Effectively concede the right side of the pitch but be confident that Walker could out-run Coutinho in a foot race.

A lot of the balls to Mane were along the ground. You have 3 ways to stop a threat - at source, in transit or at the point of impact. Davies couldn't stop at impact point (only Rose at best could do that), we weren't pressing well enough to cut out at source so that leaves blocking the transit - i.e. block up the passing lanes. By moving the team over to that left side it would force Liverpool to play balls over the top to Mane - much harder to do than along the ground which would be no longer available with Dembele in the way.

It seemed a pretty simple solution to me. I think Poch did something along those lines later in the game. Unfortunately the damage was already done. He needed to react much quicker probably after the 1st goal given we'd already conceded multiple chances at that stage.
 
tynesidespur said:
I don't necessarily agree that we had to change tactics/philosophy in its entirety.
A slight/subtle alteration to shape would've shut Liverpool out. They had clearly targeted our left and were concentrating over 50% of their play down that side in the 1st half. Mane had the run on Davies and was getting no support. Why not shift/align the team more to the left side and block that area of the pitch up? Go to a more lop-sided 4-3-3 shape with Dembele in a deep left-midfield position, Wanayama deep in the centre with Eriksen alongside so you've lost no numerical advantage in central midfield. Leave Son higher up pressing the back 4 with Kane and Alli. Effectively concede the right side of the pitch but be confident that Walker could out-run Coutinho in a foot race.

A lot of the balls to Mane were along the ground. You have 3 ways to stop a threat - at source, in transit or at the point of impact. Davies couldn't stop at impact point (only Rose at best could do that), we weren't pressing well enough to cut out at source so that leaves blocking the transit - i.e. block up the passing lanes. By moving the team over to that left side it would force Liverpool to play balls over the top to Mane - much harder to do than along the ground which would be no longer available with Dembele in the way.

It seemed a pretty simple solution to me. I think Poch did something along those lines later in the game. Unfortunately the damage was already done. He needed to react much quicker probably after the 1st goal given we'd already conceded multiple chances at that stage.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Play the wonky. Play to the situation, don't just doggedly stick with gameplan A.
 
Libero said:
I don't necessarily advocate us playing long but for 10-15 min's I would have said let's get their full backs turned and facing their own goal and try to win the ball slightly higher up the pitch from the second/third ball as opposed to starting with possession in our own third and never managing to hold onto it long enough to enter the midfield with any meaningful possession. Whether I would have started with that in mind is very debateable but after the first 5 min's or so the warning signs were there.

To me that is just smart analysis of the game as it is in flux and managing the match through its troubling moments. Doesn't mean that you sacrifice the overall philosophy but more that you adapt until you find an equal footing or infact get on top. And I agree we should have started deeper and been quite compact initially so as to frustrate Liverpool and prevent them having any real space in behind just as others have done. Had we started like that then I would doubt very much that we would have had that 10 min's of consistent pressure that saw us lose 2 goals in 4 min's where we looked overloaded and unable to cope with the movement in behind and in between the lines. I also feel that the way Liverpool press is quite easy to overcome if you are prepared to all play in the manner that I have suggested. If you go long and by pass the press you can essentially make the game a 5 v 5 in their half off the second/third ball and play your style from there but everybody has to be switched on to that way of playing and be 'on it' from the very first whistle.
Click to expand...

Fair. We actually agree on most things - where we disagree is on the likelihood of us being 'switched on' enough to warrant playing long from the start. I don't think we start games 'switched on' that often, *especially away*. Thus, I'd actually argue for abandoning any attempts at getting forward entirely for for the first twenty-odd minutes, to minimize the risk of getting caught out as we were on the weekend. Fine margins, though.
 
@SkySportsMNF
Mauricio Pochettino and his Tottenham players must change their record in big matches, says @Carra23: skysports.tv/rtoaOH
C4ktSH3WEAAj4PR.jpg


And looking back at last season's interlopers, we also fared poorly in the "six pointers"

2015/16 v Leicester
Arsenal: W2-1 W5-2 Pts6
Liverpool: W1-0 L0-2 Pts3
ManU: D1-1 D1-1 Pts2
Chelsea: D1-1 L1-2 Pts1
Spurs: L0-1 D1-1 Pts1
Emirates Marketing Project: L1-3 D0-0 Pts1
 
Last edited:
@SteveAWOL , depends on what your objectives are ...

The Scum have made their 4th place trophy religiously by spanking brick sides and failing in big games, math is 12-14 mediocre to poor sides, 5 decent sides. Beating the bottom 14 sides 2X could net you 84 points and CL, even if you roll over against everyone else in top 6.

If we were truly challenging, it makes a difference, at this stage, its just something to work on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back