Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[harr1984]

What relevance is that to me talking about him taking over this squad of players? In much the same fashion he took over from Ramos' squad who also had some very good players. He wasn't successful at QPR, but he has improved most clubs he's been at I'm afraid....

Are you sure, three different clubs to relegation ( and he would have had four but did a runner with dodgy knees). As for squads of players I would suggest that a better manager then " rent a quote" would have had a squad of players that included Modtic, Bale, King, Vdv etc would have got us higher.[/QUOTE]
I disagree, but so not to digress my general point was that a lot of managers with the squad of players we have would get us playing better football and probably more points on the board - but of course the second part is no guarantee. I know many won't like this but I enjoyed watching our football more under Sherwood than I did under the guy he took over from AVB, or his successor Poch. Don't get me Wrong I'm happy to give Poch more time but it seems that he is forgiven on here for a lot because he comes across as classier in his interviews than Sherwood did. It might just be me but I wasn't overly bothered about Sherwoods comments in the press long as there were some performances on the pitch and the same goes for Poch. I like the way he talks but I'm far more concerned about how he gets the team playing and so far this system so many on this forum got excited about hasn't got going. That's not to say that it can't and won't. But something Redknapp said a couple of years ago stuck with me in that football is still a simple game and that these foreign managers with their fancy tactics and clever player rotation etc can over complicate things unnecessarily and I think his point is a valid one....

 

[SpurMeUp]

To be fair Poch was missing Eriksen today. The problem is there are so many question marks and things to decide on in that team. Is Dier a DM? Who is the first choice back 4? Is Dembele a long term right sided midfielder? Does Chadli provide enough? Who will make up the first choice CM spots? So many questions, it feels like we are far from a settled team.

Is Dier a DM?

He is, in that he is playing that position and doing well. He's not a seasoned DM, that will come with time. The attraction to Poch is that he can drop back into defence but also get forward. He'd scored 2 already this time last season.

Who makes up the first choice back 4?

I hope Poch sticks with Walker. For all 4 fullbacks, whoever plays needs a good run of games to settle. For me Rose and Walker should be part of the first choice back 4. Alderweireld and Vertonghen could make up a first choice back line. Please please stick with 4 players Poch. They need consistency.

Is Dembele a long term right sided midfielder?

I think so. He can hold the ball up, drive into the defence, and he seems more suited to coming in off the wing. What he lacks in trickery he makes up for in sheer power. He just needs to exploit he strength more. Defenders don't easily get the ball off him. I would like to see more hunger - him asking for the ball, stepping forward...as he is a beast.

Does Chadli provide enough?
Not defensively. He got an assist yesterday but didn't have any urgency after the restart - to close the ball down or get back and defend. He does provide 'enough' however. Assists and goals. But not much else. He has to keep the assists and goals up as he doesn't bring enough of everything else. NJ could offer a alternative, proving his worth from the bench/ in cups.

Who will make up the first choice CM spots?
Dier, Bentaleb, Alli, Mason. Not a bad quartet. All have merits. Poch will have to stay with Dier as DM (unless he drops him back into CD and drops Vertonghen). I would like to see Bentaleb and Alli.

Central midfield is the biggest challenge for Poch. He needs to discern 2 players from 4 who are similar ability, promising players. Since Modric-Parker-Sandro we've not settled on a steady midfield. It has been our Achilles Heel imo and was key to AVBs demise.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Harry Redknapp would get better out of our squad lol. I've heard it all now.

Somehow (effectively) two relegations with QPR spending some of the highest amounts on wages in Europe equates to "getting the best out of players"
Lol. I mean LAUGH OUT LOUD.

It's almost like people forget how good he was at squad management, rotation and planning.

Keep em coming!

 

[Spurs7891]

how does Levy convince said big club mentality manager to join a small club like us?

Well, we are a big club made to think like a small-club by Levy ! We don't even have to compete with top 4 or 5 teams ! If teams like Leicester can get Ranieri, Southampton can get Koeman, Sunderland can get Advocaat and West Ham can get Bilic, surely we can find a bit better and ambitious manager than them ! We needed an experienced and successfull manager but Levy went for a young manager yet again. This despite knowing well that young managers have rarely been successfull in the PL era. Still want Pochettino to succeed at Spurs but it doesn't look like it so far.

 

[parklane1]

Are you sure, three different clubs to relegation ( and he would have had four but did a runner with dodgy knees). As for squads of players I would suggest that a better manager then " rent a quote" would have had a squad of players that included Modtic, Bale, King, Vdv etc would have got us higher.

I disagree, but so not to digress my general point was that a lot of managers with the squad of players we have would get us playing better football and probably more points on the board - but of course the second part is no guarantee. I know many won't like this but I enjoyed watching our football more under Sherwood than I did under the guy he took over from AVB, or his successor Poch. Don't get me Wrong I'm happy to give Poch more time but it seems that he is forgiven on here for a lot because he comes across as classier in his interviews than Sherwood did. It might just be me but I wasn't overly bothered about Sherwoods comments in the press long as there were some performances on the pitch and the same goes for Poch. I like the way he talks but I'm far more concerned about how he gets the team playing and so far this system so many on this forum got excited about hasn't got going. That's not to say that it can't and won't. But something Redknapp said a couple of years ago stuck with me in that football is still a simple game and that these foreign managers with their fancy tactics and clever player rotation etc can over complicate things unnecessarily and I think his point is a valid one....[/QUOTE]

Well we will agree to disagree then, but just to make it clear I do not like Poch because I hated Sherwood ( but I accept that some may). As for Redknapp there is a myth about him being a good manager ( mostly created by his mates in the press because he was always good for a quote and they lapped that up). The truth is in over 30 years of being a manager he won one trophy and three relegations, ( should have been four but for his dodgy knees). He had a couple of world class players during his time here but still failed to win anything. However as I say we will agree to disagree as there has been enough said about " rent a quote" and we may be taking this thread off topic.

 

[Baleforce]

Well, we are a big club made to think like a small-club by Levy ! We don't even have to compete with top 4 or 5 teams ! If teams like Leicester can get Ranieri, Southampton can get Koeman, Sunderland can get Advocaat and West Ham can get Bilic, surely we can find a bit better and ambitious manager than them ! We needed an experienced and successfull manager but Levy went for a young manager yet again. This despite knowing well that young managers have rarely been successfull in the PL era. Still want Pochettino to succeed at Spurs but it doesn't look like it so far.

I'd say he's been a massive success thus far, 5th and a cup final in his first season with our limited wage budget was very impressive

 

[Nigeyman]

why is it that if we are not playing like Barca and winning 3-0 every time then this place goes into total meltdown?

I can see with my own eyes that we are not clinical enough, not savvy enough, and are short of a few decent additions,

But lets just clarify our situation after 3 games.....ok then do we really want to sack our manager? are we going to be fortunate enough to avoid relegation?

Everyone has the right to post here and air their views if they are frustrated with how things are going, but calling for the coach's head to roll already just seems wrong to me at the moment, I am very far from being anywhere near one of the most intelligent posters on this forum, but surely writing us off/our season after three games and the transfer window still being open is a little strange no?

I dont think I could possibly want us to win a football match next week as badly as I do now ever again....I repeat a win next week with some signings made and the whole mood shifts to the positive...whether there is a GHod or we are just a test tube experiment by extra-terrestrials please please please let us win next week and give this forum a lift!

PLEASE!

 

[Baleforce]

Quite

Are draws the new defeats Andy?

 

[Pirate55]

I don't think anyone expects top 4 in the next couple of seasons. What I think we do expect is to see our team playing exciting, attractive football with young exciting players. What we desperately want at the moment is to be entertained - and not bored to death with impotent possession football that doesn't go anywhere and stymied by the straight jacket of system based tactics. It is not the Spurs way and without any success being delivered will leave us all very frustrated.

Please see the light Poch and give us some excitement and entertainment now while we are waiting for the stadium and masterplan to kick in to effect. No more turgid displays.

 

[milo]

I don't think anyone expects top 4 in the next couple of seasons. What I think we do expect is to see our team playing exciting, attractive football with young exciting players. What we desperately want at the moment is to be entertained - and not bored to death with impotent possession football that doesn't go anywhere and stymied by the straight jacket of system based tactics. It is not the Spurs way and without any success being delivered will leave us all very frustrated.

Please see the light Poch and give us some excitement and entertainment now while we are waiting for the stadium and masterplan to kick in to effect. No more turgid displays.

Do you think that we would get better results with the same players if we asked the to "run about a bit" and enjoy themselves? This is a genuine question because I think that everyone would be in favour if we could achieve better results.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

The reason why we conceded the goal against Leicester was not tactics. It was not Poch. It was certain players switching off. If people cannot see that, then there's nothing else to say as those people will continually blame the manager for every individual mistake a player makes.

 

[parklane1]

The reason why we conceded the goal against Leicester was not tactics. It was not Poch. It was certain players switching off. If people cannot see that, then there's nothing else to say as those people will continually blame the manager for every individual mistake a player makes.

Its called the blame game and Poch and Levy are the targets for some no matter what happens on the pitch.

 

[Pirate55]

Do you think that we would get better results with the same players if we asked the to "run about a bit" and enjoy themselves? This is a genuine question because I think that everyone would be in favour if we could achieve better results.

That is such a facetious question it hardly deserves a reply. However, I will bite. Poch is supposed to be a highly qualified coach. The options are not either 4231 or "just run around a bit".

What I want to see is us taking the game to the opposition. Different tactics necessary for games against top four, but for the rest I want to see

1. Attacking players getting forward, supporting Kane more and getting more bodies into the box.

2. Midfield players running beyond the attackers and getting into the box, giving Eriksen options

3. AMs taking their men on and going both inside and outside.

4. Playing balls faster and forward quicker

5. Not two DMs against lesser sides at home

6. Defenders defend and attackers attack

Poch is supposed to be a top class coach. Let's see him earn his money and keep us entertained while we are treading water. Not too much to ask methinks. After all, anyone can set a team up in a rigid 4231 and play invented wingers and overlapping full backs. Trouble is that system isn't working and is as dull as dishwater in the meantime. As the OP asked of Poch....Please bring back the good times.

We are so far off top four, that for now, that just means attacking, exciting, entertaining football. The Spurs way. To dare is to do and all that.

 

[harr1984]

That is such a facetious question it hardly deserves a reply. However, I will bite. Poch is supposed to be a highly qualified coach. The options are not either 4231 or "just run around a bit".

What I want to see is us taking the game to the opposition. Different tactics necessary for games against top four, but for the rest I want to see

1. Attacking players getting forward, supporting Kane more and getting more bodies into the box.

2. Midfield players running beyond the attackers and getting into the box, giving Eriksen options

3. AMs taking their men on and going both inside and outside.

4. Playing balls faster and forward quicker

5. Not two DMs against lesser sides at home

6. Defenders defend and attackers attack

Poch is supposed to be a top class coach. Let's see him earn his money and keep us entertained while we are treading water. Not too much to ask methinks. After all, anyone can set a team up in a rigid 4231 and play invented wingers and overlapping full backs. Trouble is that system isn't working and is as dull as dishwater in the meantime. As the OP asked of Poch....Please bring back the good times.

We are so far off top four, that for now, that just means attacking, exciting, entertaining football. The Spurs way. To dare is to do and all that.

Absolutely.

I'm very supportive of Poch,I'm not looking for top 4 finishes anytime soon but which a young side we should at least be energetic and attacking in numbers and with pace and enthusiasm. On the flip side it's clear that Poch still hasn't got the players and squad he wants yet,obviously with Nije and hopefully Berahino soon we will have more options and chances to demonstrate variations of good attacking play.

But I did expect a bit more, even with the current squad of players to be honest....

 

[Raziel]

The reason why we conceded the goal against Leicester was not tactics. It was not Poch. It was certain players switching off. If people cannot see that, then there's nothing else to say as those people will continually blame the manager for every individual mistake a player makes.

No .. because you are analyzing the game from the perspective of the individual error. Truth is, Poch's tactics and team selection meant Leicester were far more in the game than they ever should have been, we should not have had to be in a position to try a snatch and grab goal and hang on in last 15 minutes.

Simple changes

- No Lamela (not in starting line, not on bench)
- Start with your choice of Alli, Pritchard instead
- Dembele right like he has this season
- Allow Chadli the freedom knowing your midfield only has to cover one side
- Njie on bench, even if he didn't play, just for the mental lift
- By second half, one of Trippier or Rose to give Leicester more to think about.

Re individual mistakes, the issue isn't people switching off, it's time and time again a FB or CB being exposed 1:1, that is tactics.

 

[Bullet]

The reason why we conceded the goal against Leicester was not tactics. It was not Poch. It was certain players switching off. If people cannot see that, then there's nothing else to say as those people will continually blame the manager for every individual mistake a player makes.

It was Poch's choice to play Davies instead of Rose. Perhaps because he is more defensive minded and taller... yet he was roasted by Mahrez all day and beaten in the air by little Jamie Vardy for the goal. Rose HAS to play and Poch needs to make the switch next game.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

No .. because you are analyzing the game from the perspective of the individual error. Truth is, Poch's tactics and team selection meant Leicester were far more in the game than they ever should have been, we should not have had to be in a position to try a snatch and grab goal and hang on in last 15 minutes.

Simple changes

- No Lamela (not in starting line, not on bench)
- Start with your choice of Alli, Pritchard instead
- Dembele right like he has this season
- Allow Chadli the freedom knowing your midfield only has to cover one side
- Njie on bench, even if he didn't play, just for the mental lift
- By second half, one of Trippier or Rose to give Leicester more to think about.

Re individual mistakes, the issue isn't people switching off, it's time and time again a FB or CB being exposed 1:1, that is tactics.

Disagree. Poch did not tell his team to leave FB or CB being exposed 1:1. If you think otherwise, then there's nothing that can be said to persuade you otherwise. On what planet would any manager ever instruct his team to leave CB or FB 1:1.

- As for not starting Lamela, it's different opinions. He has the benefit of working with the players every day.
- Starting with Pritchard or Alli - again it's opinions. He's made the choice that he would rather not risk a youngster with a full start. If they had failed, you'd be saying it was obvious we needed more experience in the team.
- Allow Chadli to have the freedom - Chadli is not a Messi, Silva, Hazard or the type of player that allows you to give the freedom. You give one player freedom, it leaves it more likely that one of your players will be left 1:1 or 2:1.
- N-Jie on the bench - I think Poch knows his mental state and physical state much better than any of us.
- Trippier or Rose to give Leicester something to think about - I don't doubt for a minute that the thought would have crossed his mind. In his view, it wasn't the call to make. There is no guarantee that having them on would have changed the outcome.

Poch has made mistakes, but so have a number of other managers. They're only human. Poch imho is proving to be an excellent coach but it has only been one season. In that season, he has overachieved despite having players like Soldado, Paulinho, Adebayor and Lamela. He has managed to get a team that was the youngest in the league to 5th. With his tactics.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

It was Poch's choice to play Davies instead of Rose. Perhaps because he is more defensive minded and taller... yet he was roasted by Mahrez all day and beaten in the air by little Jamie Vardy for the goal. Rose HAS to play and Poch needs to make the switch next game.

I agree with you. But Poch knows which of the two were fully fit. It is your assumption that he chose Davies because he is more defensive minded and taller. How do you know it's not because Rose was performing brick in training all week.

 

[milo]

That is such a facetious question it hardly deserves a reply. However, I will bite. Poch is supposed to be a highly qualified coach. The options are not either 4231 or "just run around a bit".

What I want to see is us taking the game to the opposition. Different tactics necessary for games against top four, but for the rest I want to see

1. Attacking players getting forward, supporting Kane more and getting more bodies into the box.

2. Midfield players running beyond the attackers and getting into the box, giving Eriksen options

3. AMs taking their men on and going both inside and outside.

4. Playing balls faster and forward quicker

5. Not two DMs against lesser sides at home

6. Defenders defend and attackers attack

Poch is supposed to be a top class coach. Let's see him earn his money and keep us entertained while we are treading water. Not too much to ask methinks. After all, anyone can set a team up in a rigid 4231 and play invented wingers and overlapping full backs. Trouble is that system isn't working and is as dull as dishwater in the meantime. As the OP asked of Poch....Please bring back the good times.

We are so far off top four, that for now, that just means attacking, exciting, entertaining football. The Spurs way. To dare is to do and all that.

It was not meant to be a facetious question and I do not think that there was any need for you to respond in the imperious manner that you did.

I think that Poch would want most of that. The way he sets us up is with the intention of getting the ball forward quickly and giving a platform to allow the attacking player to get forward. The attacking players that we have been linked with this summer show that he recognises that we need some pace up front to give us more options. But at the moment, for whatever reason, the team are a little off form and struggling to do this.

What I would disagree with is the defenders to defend and attackers to attack. I just do not think that this is possible in the modern game and I cannot think of a decent side who play like this.

 

[Raziel]

Disagree. Poch did not tell his team to leave FB or CB being exposed 1:1. If you think otherwise, then there's nothing that can be said to persuade you otherwise. On what planet would any manager ever instruct his team to leave CB or FB 1:1.

Mate, his system constantly leaves his FB's & CB's exposed, that isn't even a debate.

Poch plays a high line with inverted wingers which compresses the middle, with support from the FB's over committing to provide attacking and width (in a system that has very little). In that system a large percentage of the time, turnover leads to a hoof ball to a runner that leaves our FB/CB 1:1 with attacking players.

Go watch the game again, and the Stoke game, watch how many players get around Kane any time he has the ball, yet goal scorers in the Stoke game and Leicester game somehow end up 1:1 with a CB?

But lets fool ourselves and say a defender exposed 1:1 against a PL attacker is the one at fault every time.