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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Pirate55 said:
Pochs in game management is a real weakness at the moment and needs to improve significantly imo.
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I can't find the stats for the whole of last season but with a few weeks to go we had come from behind to win games the second most times in the league.

How does this square with his in game management being poor, especially when most of us would accept that his options from the bench were limited last season?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...eason-rank-Premier-League-comeback-kings.html
 
milo said:
I can't find the stats for the whole of last season but with a few weeks to go we had come from behind to win games the second most times in the league.

How does this square with his in game management being poor, especially when most of us would accept that his options from the bench were limited last season?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...eason-rank-Premier-League-comeback-kings.html
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Because invariably it was late goals from Kane erisken or chadli rather than us changing the actual game
 
parklane1 said:
Redknapp had some of the best players we have had here for a long time and still failed to win us anything and in the end sacked himself with his actions, Ramos actually won us a trophy, Sherwood was nothing more then a temporary appointment, and as for AVB he wanted out for his own reasons.

If we keep turning over managers every time a few fans start bitching because they can not see that we will never challenge for the top honours until we get some stability then we will never learn.
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Amen! Could not agree more!
 
Pirate55 said:
Agree 100% Raz mate. Said exactly that whe watching it live. Walker should have been subbed for Trippier at half time. If Poch really wanted to be daring he could have played Walker in front of Trippier instead of the limp Lamela. That would have both given us double protection on our weak right hand side and Walkers pace going forward would have enabled us a much needed outlet that we didn't have after Kane was subbed.

Pochs in game management is a real weakness at the moment and needs to improve significantly imo.
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In fairness/defence to Poch, probably the only thing that Lamella has shown his worth for is his workrate and willingness to do his bit defensively. Out of the options he had on the bench, if he was looking for somone to protect Walker more, Lamella was it. Added to that if Lamella had actually played well and held onto the ball this would also have taken pressure off Walker by providing a decent outlet. It's just that Lamella played like a plank so makes Poch look bad.

I can understand your point on Trippier. Although it's always risky to take off a player who is playing well. Trippier comes on and has a nightmare and this place is all over Poch for bringing of Walker 'who was playing well'. You can't really win.

All this is very easy with hindsight. It's difficult to ever rate anyone's in game management because there is never a way to tell what would have happened had they made the changes that your own personal opinion suggests.

Bedfordspurs said:
Because invariably it was late goals from Kane erisken or chadli rather than us changing the actual game
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So Poch gets no credit for that?
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
So Poch gets no credit for that?
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Poch hasn't changed anything though in the game. its been a moment of magic, brilliant or luck

Thats the argument he doesn't change anything in the game, invariably go like for like and doesn't really add anything form his change other than fresh legs
 
milo said:
Should we dismiss late goals from top players at other clubs too?
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Yes when it com stop a debate about the manager making the changes necessary to influence the game.

If the player is a sub that comes on and moats the game like Ireland did on Saturday then the manager get the credit for changing it up

If its a player on the pitch doing his job the manager gets the credit for putting him out there, tactic, fitness etc... but you can't argue that he has change the game mid game, unless he has actually changed the personnel or tactics mid game. So far we have very very rarely changed tactics
 
I think it's fair to say that our late comebacks probably owed more to the improvements in our fitness regime than to any great ability to change things up tactically. Pochettino does deserve credit for that in itself, of course, but he hasn't really demonstrated a particular flair for responding quickly and effectively to tactical changes on the part of the opposition, in my view. Much of it has to do with the available tools, of course, and we have had a lot of very samey players in the squad, really.
 
milo said:
I can't find the stats for the whole of last season but with a few weeks to go we had come from behind to win games the second most times in the league.

How does this square with his in game management being poor, especially when most of us would accept that his options from the bench were limited last season?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...eason-rank-Premier-League-comeback-kings.html
Click to expand...

Were our late goals last season part of a plan (ie greater fitness) or down to good fortune? If they continue this year, then I will give Poch and his team due credit. If the don't ? Was is just luck?. " The difference between luck and skill is consistency" TM. For me, the jury is still out on Poch.

Time will tell.
 
Pirate55 said:
Were our late goals last season part of a plan (ie greater fitness) or down to good fortune? If they continue this year, then I will give Poch and his team due credit. If the don't ? Was is just luck?. " The difference between luck and skill is consistency" TM. For me, the jury is still out on Poch.

Time will tell.
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The fitness thing i she and something Poch and his team must take the credit for.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Poch hasn't changed anything though in the game. its been a moment of magic, brilliant or luck

Thats the argument he doesn't change anything in the game, invariably go like for like and doesn't really add anything form his change other than fresh legs
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If he had changed something, how do you know that the outcome would still have been the same or better? You don't, in fact it may have been worse. Which is why it's an impossible thing to evaluate.

He may have made a concious decision not to change things, which like it or not, resulted in the moment of magic, brilliance or luck which won us the game.

If he can be criticised for 'not changing things' when we lose, he can also be praised for 'not changing things' when we win.

But like I said, it's an impossible argument to have because there is simply no way of evaluating the hypothetical outcome.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
If he had changed something, how do you know that the outcome would still have been the same or better? You don't, in fact it may have been worse. Which is why it's an impossible thing to evaluate.

He may have made a concious decision not to change things, which like it or not, resulted in the moment of magic, brilliance or luck which won us the game.

If he can be criticised for 'not changing things' when we lose, he can also be praised for 'not changing things' when we win.

But like I said, it's an impossible argument to have because there is simply no way of evaluating the hypothetical outcome.
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Yeah valid and fair comments

im not anti Poch but Saturday for me was an example where the wrong subs contribute dot our downfall. It will happen again as all managers make mistakes that are easy to identify in hindsight..
 
milo said:
I can't find the stats for the whole of last season but with a few weeks to go we had come from behind to win games the second most times in the league.

How does this square with his in game management being poor, especially when most of us would accept that his options from the bench were limited last season?
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Personally I don't think his in-game management is all that poor. But I do think he messed up royally against Stoke. It is possible for a good manager to make the occasional mistake. It's whether or not he can learn from it that'll be the difference between him being a good manager or a great one.
 
DublinSpur said:
Personally I don't think his in-game management is all that poor. But I do think he messed up royally against Stoke. It is possible for a good manager to make the occasional mistake. It's whether or not he can learn from it that'll be the difference between him being a good manager or a great one.
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I agree that Stoke wasn't his greatest moment but he certainly wasn't helped by only having one striker in the squad and two starters who weren't fully fit.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yeah valid and fair comments

im not anti Poch but Saturday for me was an example where the wrong subs contribute dot our downfall. It will happen again as all managers make mistakes that are easy to identify in hindsight..
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It is never good to throw away a two goal lead but the players that came on were mainstays in our side last season and should have been good enough to see out the game.
 
milo said:
It is never good to throw away a two goal lead but the players that came on were mainstays in our side last season and should have been good enough to see out the game.
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the key was the change in who they replaced and for once it wasn't a like for like and cost us dearly
 
Bedfordspurs said:
the key was the change in who they replaced and for once it wasn't a like for like and cost us dearly
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Here's the thing though. Let's take your Hughes example. Ireland came on and played great on Saturday, we can only assume that he followed the tactical instructions Mark Hughes gave him to a tee. So Hughes gets the credit for being tactically 'good'.

He could however have come on and played like a complete plank. If Stoke had lost the game, Hughes would likely have been criticised for bringing on Ireland even though he had given him the exact same instructions. Same instuctions, different outcome. One Hughes = tactically good, one Hughes = tactically bad in the eyes of the fan from the outside.

So it's not just about what change is made, but also about how the player performs. Poch is being hammered for the Lamela sub. But the reason he is being hammered is because of how badly Lamela performed. As I said earlier, if you look at the options he had on the bench, Lamela was the only sensible option.
 
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