Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[SUIYHA]

Matic is a DM and he knows when to press and when to sit. Fernandinho similarly. Wanyama also. None of them are sitters. They do both.

Personally though I would like to see Delph come in. He would suit the system and he would be in the homegrown quota.

People want Delph and Benteke. Reminds me of when we signed the entire Wimbledon team when they got relegated.

I want cultured, classy footballers at Spurs. Delph has had his moments but I don't put him (or Benteke) in that category at all.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Matic is a DM and he knows when to press and when to sit. Fernandinho similarly. Wanyama also. None of them are sitters. They do both.

Personally though I would like to see Delph come in. He would suit the system and he would be in the homegrown quota.

Tom Carroll is a better player than Delph is, and is also a better fit for Poch's systems at present. Also home-grown.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Tom Carroll is a better player than Delph is, and is also a better fit for Poch's systems at present. Also home-grown.

We can't recall a player from a PL loan though can we? That would actually be ideal.

 

[DubaiSpur]

We can't recall a player from a PL loan though can we? That would actually be ideal.

No one seems entirely sure on that point. Either way, it's worth a try: bringing him back would cost less than Delph would cost, I'd wager, especially when you look at the likelihood of Villa needing Delph to stave off relegation.

 

[Mumorn]

Tom Carroll is a better player than Delph is, and is also a better fit for Poch's systems at present. Also home-grown.

Don't know if I would agree with that. I think Delph is hideously underrated by some on here.

Not that I belive we should go for him.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Don't know if I would agree with that. I think Delph is hideously underrated by some on here.

Not that I belive we should go for him.

Even Villa fans don't think he's all that, though. Ignoring for a moment the notoriously fickle nature of fan opinions about players, I think that's a bit of a warning sign: they really aren't that fussed about him leaving overall. (source: Villatalk). Plus, most descriptions of him paint him as a pared-down Dembele - not what we need in that DM role, surely.

 

[Mumorn]

Even Villa fans don't think he's all that, though. Ignoring for a moment the notoriously fickle nature of fan opinions about players, I think that's a bit of a warning sign: they really aren't that fussed about him leaving overall. (source: Villatalk). Plus, most descriptions of him paint him as a pared-down Dembele - not what we need in that DM role, surely.

Personally, I don't care what Villa fans think. I see with my own eyes. You only have to read a few threads on here to see some that don't rate Mason or Chadli or Fazio etc or even Modric and Parker when we had them!

Delph, especially if we got him on a free, would be good, home grown, likes a battle, can pass a ball, works hard. Poch has improved players, Delph is a rough diamond.

 

[Rorschach]

I will reserve judgement on a player who has only played a handful of games, but we need someone who plays the position he does and what he was bought for.

You are correct on the small sample size and as I say it is early days. But even with that the chap has been hooked at half time 3 times already and should been taken off at Chelsea too (but had a decent 2nd half in the end). So far he's been a bit meh for me and his mobility is a worry. I still like him though and hope he steps it up.

 

[Mumorn]

You are correct on the small sample size and as I say it is early days. But even with that the chap has been hooked at half time 3 times already and should been taken off at Chelsea too (but had a decent 2nd half in the end). So far he's been a bit meh for me and his mobility is a worry. I still like him though and hope he steps it up.

You mean Man Utd Stambouli was brilliant in the second half of that game. I personally thought he was good against Palace too. I just don't think him and Dembele should partner each other, it should be Stambouli and bentaleb or Stambouli and Mason if he ever starts.

I doubt taking Stambouli off second half is due to highly poor performances, more to do with Poch wanting something different for the second half. I've also seen him take Lamela off at least twice at half time and opted for something different.

 

[harr1984]

Early days but Stambouli has been totally unconvincing IMO.

I think he's shown that he can put his foot in, whilst also have some skill and can clearly play football. It's just about piecing it all together and feeling completely comfortable in your surroundings. Chadli was a prime example, you could tell he had the ability last season but it just didn't all click into place, this season different story...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[LutonSpurs]

I think Delph is a good player and our midfield is not too good for a player of his ilk.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Koeman has Poch's foundations and momentum. He's Laudrup to Martinez/Rodgers at Swansea. Poch inherited a complete mess, based on us having a damaged, rapidly overhauled squad, which had been flip-flopped between progressive and traditional coaches.

I'm really surprised by some of the lukewarm reception Mason gets (Bentaleb too sometimes). He's been fantastic this season - the key agent in our turnaround. He's the first player we've had since Modric who moves the ball to our forwards quickly and assertively enough to give them half a chance of scoring. I'd say he's the most indispensable player in our squad at the moment - even ahead of Lloris and Kane.

I don't think the squad is that far off for it working for Poch. There's probably about 18 players that suit him, so we probably need to top that up with 3 more (CB, CM and WF/CF) to give him a workable squad.

I think part of him keeping Capoue, Kaboul and Paulinho on the bench/having cameos is political, rather than a footballing decision.

While I agree with the rest of your post, I think you are seriously pushing the truth with your first statement. Poch inherited a squad that finished 6th last season and didn't have to lose a single player that he didn't want to sell. Koeman inherited a squad that finished 8th and was forced to lose 5 first choice players (as well as a sixth to long term injury and another player desperate to leave).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Even Villa fans don't think he's all that, though. Ignoring for a moment the notoriously fickle nature of fan opinions about players, I think that's a bit of a warning sign: they really aren't that fussed about him leaving overall. (source: Villatalk). Plus, most descriptions of him paint him as a pared-down Dembele - not what we need in that DM role, surely.

They did before it was clear he wasn't going to stay. It's a bit like how the West Ham fans have suddenly decided that Winston Reid isn't actually that good and Tompkins is better now that it's clear Reid will depart, after banging on about him being one of the best central defenders in the league for the last couple of years.

Also Delph is different to Dembele as he doesn't look to slow the game down but instead speeds it up (hence why I think he would be successful for us)

 

[Robspur12]

While I agree with the rest of your post, I think you are seriously pushing the truth with your first statement. Poch inherited a squad that finished 6th last season and didn't have to lose a single player that he didn't want to sell. Koeman inherited a squad that finished 8th and was forced to lose 5 first choice players (as well as a sixth to long term injury and another player desperate to leave).

I am sure you will accept that despite finishing 6th the league position papered over huge cracks in the squad last season. When we lost we tended to lose heavily especially against the top 4. The team's confidence was fragile coming into this season. Koeman had little pressure on him at the start of the season, having lost many members of the squad he would have been forgiven for finishing 4th from bottom imo. He also had the opportunity to fashion his own squad. Poch on the other hand, had to take the squad of last season with all its problems (and had been put together by someone else), fashion a side that could compete for 4th spot as well as compete for all the competitions that Spurs entered.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I am sure you will accept that despite finishing 6th the league position papered over huge cracks in the squad last season. When we lost we tended to lose heavily especially against the top 4. The team's confidence was fragile coming into this season. Koeman had little pressure on him at the start of the season, having lost many members of the squad he would have been forgiven for finishing 4th from bottom imo. He also had the opportunity to fashion his own squad. Poch on the other hand, had to take the squad of last season with all its problems (and had been put together by someone else), fashion a side that could compete for 4th spot as well as compete for all the competitions that Spurs entered.

Yeah but we did buy 6 players for him too

The Southampton thing I find funny is that despite their sales they brought in players for £57m band have two other players on loan that will cost another £30m between them. That's £90m worth of players.... Yet no pressure

They sold a fringe player to arsenal, a massively over rated centre back to Liverpool, along with an ageing forward and a very good attacking player. They managed to *struggle cuddle* United for shaw too a she is a mile awy from being worth half his fee IMO

Incredible business but also people ignore their spending and focus on their integrating of the players

They have also just brought Ella in for a decent fee

 

[SteveAWOL]

Outrageous. Based on those stats Kane has scored a goal every 2.7 games, Soldado every 5.14. That's almost half as effective. Not to mention the proportion of penalties and goals in other competitions.

Since the start of the 2013/14 season, in the Premier League:

 

[Ryan]

Yeah but we did buy 6 players for him too

The Southampton thing I find funny is that despite their sales they brought in players for £57m band have two other players on loan that will cost another £30m between them. That's £90m worth of players.... Yet no pressure

They sold a fringe player to arsenal, a massively over rated centre back to Liverpool, along with an ageing forward and a very good attacking player. They managed to *struggle cuddle* United for shaw too a she is a mile awy from being worth half his fee IMO

Incredible business but also people ignore their spending and focus on their integrating of the players

They have also just brought Ella in for a decent fee

I think that's a huge point often glazed over in regards to Koeman and Southampton this season.

As you said they brought in a huge amount of talent, but despite that many believed they would struggle this season with some pundits even tipping them for relegation. With those expectations Koeman can go in with no pressure as nobody expected anything from them. That freedom is huge and allows a freedom and positivity that can breed momentum and form.

Also in terms of him dealing with the players lost, that really is nothing more than a theoretical loss. He never had those players, never built a system with those players and never had to adjust to a new way of playing to deal with that loss. He went in there able to forge his own style and identity on the team immediately.

Compare those two factors with our huge outlay 'post-Bale'. Bale was huge for AVB not only in terms of the style of play, but as a talisman for the team too. AVB had to adjust to find a solution to losing arguably the best player in the league, anyone who was brought in was always going to be a step down. Can we say the same with Lambert being replaced by Pelle? Tadic replacing Lallana? That loss isn't nearly as dramatic.

Also when we had that large influx of players we were expected (unrealistically imv) to challenge for the league. I reckon that pressure contributed somewhat to our poor start and struggle therein to gain any form or momentum.

No doubting that Southmapton have done amazingly well and Koeman deserves full credit. I like Southampton too so I'm pleased for them as a club. However the comparison between Southampton's business and ours isn't really relevant in my view. Looking at individual circumstances, Liverpool is a much more accurate comparison.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think that's a huge point often glazed over in regards to Koeman and Southampton this season.

As you said they brought in a huge amount of talent, but despite that many believed they would struggle this season with some pundits even tipping them for relegation. With those expectations Koeman can go in with no pressure as nobody expected anything from them. That freedom is huge and allows a freedom and positivity that can breed momentum and form.

Also in terms of him dealing with the players lost, that really is nothing more than a theoretical loss. He never had those players, never built a system with those players and never had to adjust to a new way of playing to deal with that loss. He went in there able to forge his own style and identity on the team immediately.

Compare those two factors with our huge outlay 'post-Bale'. Bale was huge for AVB not only in terms of the style of play, but as a talisman for the team too. AVB had to adjust to find a solution to losing arguably the best player in the league, anyone who was brought in was always going to be a step down. Can we say the same with Lambert being replaced by Pelle? Tadic replacing Lallana? That loss isn't nearly as dramatic.

Also when we had that large influx of players we were expected (unrealistically imv) to challenge for the league. I reckon that pressure contributed somewhat to our poor start and struggle therein to gain any form or momentum.

No doubting that Southmapton have done amazingly well and Koeman deserves full credit. I like Southampton too so I'm pleased for them as a club. However the comparison between Southampton's business and ours isn't really relevant in my view. Looking at individual circumstances, Liverpool is a much more accurate comparison.

I wasn't talking about last season under AVB but the comparisons between our season under Poch and Southampton's under Koeman.... and specifically I am disputing the comment about Koeman's job being much easier than Pochettino's.

As I said before the facts are that Spurs finished 6th last season (5th best points total since AVB departed) and according to many on this forum Sherwood underachieved in getting us to that position. Pochettino inherited that squad and didn't have to sell a single player that he didn't want to lose. Yes that Spurs team always seemed to lose to the teams who finished in the top 4, but we also typically seemed to beat all of the teams who didn't. We weren't in a real mess at all. We had good days and bad, just as we do now.

Southampton on the other hand finished 8th last season and were thought to be overachieving in finishing that high in the league (or that was the argument that I saw from many posters on this board when advocating bringing in Pochettino). That 'overachieving team' then lost 6 first choice players. It's easy now to say that Lovren was overrated, etc.... but I remember most of the posters on this message board wanting us to sign him last summer. The same goes for most of the players they have sold/lost. The facts of the matter are that Southampton lost three of their first choice back four and all three of their first choice attackers from last season (including the injury to Rodriguez). Koeman has done a brilliant job at replacing those players and integrating the new ones so quickly. To say anything else is ridiculous.

 

[Ryan]

I wasn't talking about last season under AVB but the comparisons between our season under Poch and Southampton's under Koeman.... and specifically I am disputing the comment about Koeman's job being much easier than Pochettino's.

As I said before the facts are that Spurs finished 6th last season (5th best points total since AVB departed) and according to many on this forum Sherwood underachieved in getting us to that position. Pochettino inherited that squad and didn't have to sell a single player that he didn't want to lose. Yes that Spurs team always seemed to lose to the teams who finished in the top 4, but we also typically seemed to beat all of the teams who didn't. We weren't in a real mess at all. We had good days and bad, just as we do now.

Southampton on the other hand finished 8th last season and were thought to be overachieving in finishing that high in the league (or that was the argument that I saw from many posters on this board when advocating bringing in Pochettino). That 'overachieving team' then lost 6 first choice players. It's easy now to say that Lovren was overrated, etc.... but I remember most of the posters on this message board wanting us to sign him last summer. The same goes for most of the players they have sold/lost. The facts of the matter are that Southampton lost three of their first choice back four and all three of their first choice attackers from last season (including the injury to Rodriguez). Koeman has done a brilliant job at replacing those players and integrating the new ones so quickly. To say anything else is ridiculous.

I'm not disputing that Koeman had done a magnificent job, he clearly has, but I'm not sure I agree that he has a harder job than Poch.

The main point I wanted to raise in my previous post was one of expectations. Koeman has had to contend with integrating a lot of new players, but he had the benefit of low to non-existent expectations from the media and the fans. If Southampton were in the bottom half at this point of the season, the narrative would have been that he has had squad overhaul to deal which is understandable despite the level of investment. Conversely the narrative with us was that if we weren't fighting for the title than that would have been a failure because of the level of investment, ignoring the issue of squad overhaul (exactly the same with Liverpool this season). Koeman has had no pressure to deal with in terms of those expectations which makes the challenge much simpler.

Comparing directly with the job of managing Tottenham and Southampton is difficult because they are different circumstances. Pressure on results is one thing that is again different. Every lose is heavily scrutinized at Tottenham, whereas defeats are largely expected at Southampton. Intensity of the job is also different in terms of games played. Without Europe, Koeman has much more time to organise and set up his team and integrate new players without constant distraction of games every three or four days.

The challenge with squads is fairly different too. I'd argue that it is harder for Poch to inherit a squad that (albeit filled with talent) is imbalanced and unsettled and forging it into his style as opposed to Koeman inheriting a small squad, adding the talent he wants and moulding it from scratch. Depends on your outlook as to who has it harder really, the guy who has to manipulate something existing, or the guy who has had to develop something somewhat from scratch.

I would say that in terms of their respective remits, Koeman has outshone Poch so far this season but considering aspects like pressure and expectation Poch has a far more challenging job with which to achieve.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I wasn't talking about last season under AVB but the comparisons between our season under Poch and Southampton's under Koeman.... and specifically I am disputing the comment about Koeman's job being much easier than Pochettino's.

As I said before the facts are that Spurs finished 6th last season (5th best points total since AVB departed) and according to many on this forum Sherwood underachieved in getting us to that position. Pochettino inherited that squad and didn't have to sell a single player that he didn't want to lose. Yes that Spurs team always seemed to lose to the teams who finished in the top 4, but we also typically seemed to beat all of the teams who didn't. We weren't in a real mess at all. We had good days and bad, just as we do now.

Southampton on the other hand finished 8th last season and were thought to be overachieving in finishing that high in the league (or that was the argument that I saw from many posters on this board when advocating bringing in Pochettino). That 'overachieving team' then lost 6 first choice players. It's easy now to say that Lovren was overrated, etc.... but I remember most of the posters on this message board wanting us to sign him last summer. The same goes for most of the players they have sold/lost. The facts of the matter are that Southampton lost three of their first choice back four and all three of their first choice attackers from last season (including the injury to Rodriguez). Koeman has done a brilliant job at replacing those players and integrating the new ones so quickly. To say anything else is ridiculous.

I actually agree with the sentiment of your post. I don't think we should accept finishing lower than last year as we have not lost any players from last year and the ones signed last season have and a season to integrate.

However if we did but showed the signs of progress continuing that I believe I've seen of late... I'll take that

Regarding Southampton, they lost two defenders that started regular in. Lovren and Shaw. Chambers hardly stated a game iirc.

The pressure and expectation for them this year was around avoiding relegation. They will realistically now end up anywhere from 8th upwards which is an improvement on last season and deservedly so. However again if you watched motd2 the other night they were highlighting that the core behind the improvement are players that Poch worked with being familiar with the system and playing great defensive tactics... That was Fonte, Wanyama and Schneiderlain along with upgrading elsewhere. It's great business.

Personally I've always said Lovren isn't all that. It stood out for me when he lost the physical battles with soldado last season