Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Baleforce]

Most are also dealing in industries where those they manage are capable of one day managing for themselves. That's patently not the case here.

It would be like a qualified electrician asking his screwdriver what he should do.

 

[scaramanga]

It would be like a qualified electrician asking his screwdriver what he should do.

And then Alan Screwdriver ends up on Wiring of the Day trying to talk about electrical work that is so far outside his comprehension it's stopped being funny.

 

[scaramanga]

And then Alan Screwdriver ends up on Wiring of the Day trying to talk about electrical work that is so far outside his comprehension it's stopped being funny.

Keeps commenting on how they need to light more candles to brighten the room up

 

[lurker of old]

So we are agreed that Poch needs to win the FA cup to keep his job?
And that the Europa League really isn't that bad....

 

[Baleforce]

So we are agreed that Poch needs to win the FA cup to keep his job?
And that the Europa League really isn't that bad....

trying to win the fa cup is gross misconduct and grounds for instant dismissal imo

 

[Legohamster]

Big question and one there is no real answer to, you can bet your life he will take stick from some fans if that was the way he went. He can not win.

I think that depends on how he does it.

We are all assuming Jan/Toby/CE/Rose are the issue - or at least some of them.

If he dropped them completely and said why most would understand - this half in half out vague comments about it has killed him.

Either they are an issue and they should be dropped or they are not.

We have Davies at LB and a 44 million pound CB to come in with Alli and Moura in the bench.

we are not short of options.

 

[DubaiSpur]

It is actually very simple.
Do you believe that a new manager will get a bounce from these players, four or five of whom want to leave, or do you back the current manager to rebuild a new squad and side?

Here’s what I think.

We will hang in through Xmas. We will make changes in January. We will just about make top 4. CL knock-out is in the balance due to
Hugo injury. But we will scrape top 4 and Poch will build again.

I think NOT backing him over those who want to leave would be stupid.

As I said post-Bayern, this is all contingent on him wanting it. And if he does, he should have it. End of story for me.

BTW, someone bought an SAF comment up recently; he faced EXACTLY this situation four years in, and one not dissimilar 7 years in. If Bruce hadn’t nutted that winner in the 97th min, he might not have made it. We need to be brave as long as he wants to be.

But it signals again the need for Poch to win something - it has been his problem for five years, and he really cannot make it six.

These players, or another set of players, it's all the same - no one will put in the hard yards and long miles in training if they don't see evidence of it meaning something in the end. And unfortunately, when it comes to winning things, we have been empty-handed nearly men for five years.

You know my position on Poch - I agree with you on every point, and he stays if he wants to stay. No discussion there.

But this systemic problem will continue until he wins something. An FA Cup will do - hell, it's the only thing he has left this season - but it has to happen *now*. Much like it happened for Fergie. Toeing the company line and touting 4th as a success is not going to work in motivating his players to do better, or giving them belief that he knows how to win.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think that depends on how he does it.

We are all assuming Jan/Toby/CE/Rose are the issue - or at least some of them.

If he dropped them completely and said why most would understand - this half in half out vague comments about it has killed him.

Either they are an issue and they should be dropped or they are not.

We have Davies at LB and a 44 million pound CB to come in with Alli and Moura in the bench.

we are not short of options.

On paper we aren't,but are injured, just returning from injury or have dodgy form.
And we are/were playing three games a week.

 

[Grays_1890]

The lack of trophies is not a Poch issue, the Enic years are the leanest we have ever had. One trophy in how many years now? We are on for our first trophyless decade ever.

 

[glasgowspur]

But it signals again the need for Poch to win something - it has been his problem for five years, and he really cannot make it six.

These players, or another set of players, it's all the same - no one will put in the hard yards and long miles in training if they don't see evidence of it meaning something in the end. And unfortunately, when it comes to winning things, we have been empty-handed nearly men for five years.

You know my position on Poch - I agree with you on every point, and he stays if he wants to stay. No discussion there.

But this systemic problem will continue until he wins something. An FA Cup will do - hell, it's the only thing he has left this season - but it has to happen *now*. Much like it happened for Fergie. Toeing the company line and touting 4th as a success is not going to work in motivating his players to do better, or giving them belief that he knows how to win.

Players must also realise they won't win anything without the hard miles.
What if this year was our year, if only we'd put in the hard miles.
Vicious circle.

 

[Legohamster]

Younger players then.

Point remains, if they don’t want to be here and it’s not lack of form they need binning off completely

It’s not like they have value

On paper we aren't,but are injured, just returning from injury or have dodgy form.
And we are/were playing three games a week.

 

[billyiddo]

The lack of trophies is not a Poch issue, the Enic years are the leanest we have ever had. One trophy in how many years now? We are on for our first trophyless decade ever.

Lack of trophies most certainly is a manager issue these past few years, Redknapp included, both were provided with the tools to bring something home and both had the time to do so, but couldn't get us over the line.

 

[Grays_1890]

Lack of trophies most certainly is a manager issue these past few years, Redknapp included, both were provided with the tools to bring something home, but couldn't get us over the line.

Nothing to do with Enic then no? Even though they are the constant in those lean years? Righto

We had the chance with Redknapp and Poch where we were on the verge of things, in Redknapps case we got Nelson and Saha, with Poch we got a year without a signing and now have the situation where a host of players have reached their SBD and having to bed in too many players at once.

Enic has a huge part to play in the lean years.

 

[billyiddo]

Nothing to do with Enic then no? Even though they are the constant in those lean years? Righto

We had the chance with Redknapp and Poch where we were on the verge of things, in Redknapps case we got Nelson and Saha, with Poch we got a year without a signing and now have the situation where a host of players have reached their SBD and having to bed in too many players at once.

Enic has a huge part to play in the lean years.

Pochettino has been managing a top 4 squad for 4 straight years, a squad that many considered the best in the league at various points of that spell - how is it the boards fault that he hasn't yet converted that in to a trophy? Redknapp was managing a supremely talented set of players for 2-3 years - was it Enics fault Redknapp and the team crumbled to a shambles of a Chelsea team in the FA Cup semi or fudging Portsmouth when the victir would have been up againt a Championship side in the final?

Nonsense

 

[Grays_1890]

Pochettino has been managing a top 4 squad for 4 straight years, a squad that many considered the best in the league at various points of that spell - how is it the boards fault that he hasn't yet converted that in to a trophy? Redknapp was managing a supremely talented set of players for 2-3 years - was it Enics fault Redknapp and the team crumbled to a shambles of a Chelsea team in the FA Cup semi or fudging Portsmouth?

No those specifics would be down to
Manager but are you seriously saying the 20 years of 1 trophy is all on the manager? We have had chances to kick on as a team to give ourself more chances to be in the mix and we haven't on many occasions.

 

[Legohamster]

Yes and no

He’s been in charge of the best spurs side I’ve seen - and it was the best team in the land for 2 years.

The lack of trophies is not a Poch issue, the Enic years are the leanest we have ever had. One trophy in how many years now? We are on for our first trophyless decade ever.

Nothing to do with Enic then no? Even though they are the constant in those lean years? Righto

We had the chance with Redknapp and Poch where we were on the verge of things, in Redknapps case we got Nelson and Saha, with Poch we got a year without a signing and now have the situation where a host of players have reached their SBD and having to bed in too many players at once.

Enic has a huge part to play in the lean years.

ENIC didn’t play son at lb or vorm in goal in a cup semi

trippier/Kane in the CL final

Or drop Alli and others for West Ham away when a win would have seen us over take Leicester in the league

 

[Baleforce]

If not for Levy we’d still be in mid table irrelevance.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

So toby now was as good as say 2-3 years ago ? He has not been as effective, and was one wanting to leave. To me it feels like he isn't as motivated, still a good player though.

Bayern and Emirates Marketing Project's results, both losing at home just shows this twice a week lark aint easy...

Didn't Wolves play on Thursday?

 

[billyiddo]

No those specifics would be down to
Manager but are you seriously saying the 20 years of 1 trophy is all on the manager? We have had chances to kick on as a team to give ourself more chances to be in the mix and we haven't on many occasions.

Whilst factually correct the 1 trophy in 20 years headline is pure hyperbole when you consider where we were when they took over and what the order of priorities were at the time.

Having one trophy to show for their first ten years when you take the situation the club was in during that time isn't really anything out of the ordinary and so it becomes a complaint over the last ten years barren run taking in Redknapp and Poch who have both been provided with squads strong enough to challenge for and win trophies - that they didn't do so is squarely on them afaic.

That's not to say they couldn't have provided more for those managers, of course they could - but that's not unique to Enic and tottenham and it's a damn sight more than what our last two trophy-winning managers were provided with...

 

[AdamB]

Harry kane mentioned a couple weeks ago about different 'agendas' within the squad and kind of confirming that, the various things below make it pretty understanable that the squad isnt remotely together or cohesive:

- Eriksen wanted to leave but wasnt able to
- Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Rose on short-term deals - they'll be thinking about who they're going to speak to in Jan
- we tried to sell Aurier, Wanyama and Rose but weren't able to - hardly makes them want to stay (and Rose wants to back up north as well)
- Lo Celso and Sessgnon only arrived late in the window, and haven't really played so are hardly bedded in

I think we need to try to clear as much of this up by Jan 31st and then aim have a decent 2nd half to the season:
- loan out Eriksen to whoever will take him; someone in a major league would take him for 6 mos and then he can walk
- give Vertonghen and Alderweirled what they want - even if we overpay them a bit, it will help unite the squad if they're bought in to our future
- ship out as many of Aurier, Wanyama and Rose (even though I like him, we have Davies and Sessegnon) in Jan
- bring in a right back

We then need to be prepared to sign another say 3 players this summer to freshen things up more