Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[DeanoAustin]

I look back at our games this season, and there is a familiar pattern.

Arse away - brain fart allows them in on stroke of HT
Pana away - brain fart allows them in on stroke of HT
Leicester away - switch off after VAR allows them back into the match
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - switch off allows them to steal a win
Bayern - numerous switch offs and brain farts allow them in
Soton home - Lloris goes all Jean Michel Jarre and concocts a most gorgeous and pathetic gaffe; does not cost us.

Most of the goals we have let in have been because of stupid play/individual mistakes to my eye.

I honestly believe that we were making mistakes years ago but the team was set up in such a way that we were organised enough to cover most of those mistakes. Now, we don't look like a team and every mistake looks like getting punished because we aren't working together. This is an organisation thing for the most part in my opinion rather than individuals making mistakes.

 

[thfcsteff]

I’m really not sure any of these will make the diamond work, happy to be proved wrong.

The issue of the squad still goes back to not signing anyone last season.

Which is why I would have signed Fernandes with next year in mind.

As I said above, I agree with all those saying he needs to ditch the diamond now.

 

[elltrev]

If you have to hold two "clear the air" talks in as many weeks with those working for you, you're probably not doing your job properly.

A bit embarrassing that you've used a headline from The Sun to make a point. I'd have thought you feel a bit dirty now?! The actual quotes don't represent 'clear the air' talks at all:

“It was calm and no tea cups were thrown. The gaffer said he was happy with the first 45 minutes — and wanted us to remember that going forward.

“Of course he wasn’t happy with conceding three goals in the last seven minutes.

“But he clearly thinks it was a freak result and doesn’t want us to dwell on it too much.”

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Still want Poch to be the one to turn this around but perhaps this is no-one’s fault, it’s just a perfect storm of time, contract situations and transfer windows.... I don’t think Poch is getting the best out of the team at present. On paper we have a brilliant team, easily third best in the league and when I look at that attack I’m still not sure I’d swap it for Liverpool’s.

 

[StephenH]

And even so he should have the ethic right. The intentions. The plan of how to play, how to set up etc.

Those excuses are bumps in the road, not a reason for how we are today - which appears to be utterly clueless and devoid of anything resembling a plan.

Its like Poch is a new manager, who has stepped up out of his depth and is caught like a rabbit in the headlights.

Except he is not, he is an excellent manager who has already proven he has all the things we are currently lacking.

Thats the bit I cant reconcile.

Maybe he is still lacking that illusive 'winning mentality' whatever the feck that means?
My overriding feeling when I think Pochettino is 'too soft'.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Or, you know, he could change the system...

Literally baffled at the prevailing wisdom on here that a diamond / 4-3-1-2 is suddenly an unworkable formation. Our players are perfectly capable of playing it. It is not inherently broken, requiring any more fitness or any better or worse than any other formation. To say that the Manager should just change the system is to remove all context behind the situation.

On the other hand, if Poch doesn't want to bomb players out, and is ok with contending with stuff leaking into the press from the changing room ala Chelsea, then maybe he will change it. For whatever reason, he wants to stick by these players if they are still here, and seems to want to acknowledge and respect their power. So maybe he will acquiese.

 

[SylDave]

Maybe he is still lacking that illusive 'winning meteorology' whatever the feck that means?
My overriding feeling when I think Pochettino is 'too soft'.

I think he could actually benefit from having a serial winner as a assistant just to give him some guidance on that front, you can see how desperate he is to win but I don’t think he knows how, he has always been a over thinker at certain times, mostly big crunch games and I think that stems for his desire to win, in games like this a serial winner in his ear could possibly do him the world of good.

 

[mudshark]

Is it my imagination, or did I hear him say in a recent presser that it was still "up to the club to design a new project"? If I didn't dream that up, what exactly were all these "many things" he spoke about with Levy the other week? Personally, I think he realised after the CL final that that was his shot with this squad, and they basically didn't show up for him. He's trying to present a brave face, but he's still in the dumps about that and sulking in my opinion. I suspect that inside he's lost faith in them, and a few of them have picked that up. I doubt the latter part of the second half Tuesday will have done a lot to restore it.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I just winder whether Poch is now a bit depressed with things, perhaps not really recovered from the emotional roller-coaster of our CL run and almost messing up finishing in the top 4.
That's if the reports in the Mail of him often watching training from his office is true.

That also belies a lack of motivation compared to previous times; which is all very sad.

But if we're honest, given the contradictions of the club and board in terms of FOOTBALLING ambition, who really could blame Poch for ending up in this state?

 

[thfcsteff]

Literally baffled at the prevailing wisdom on here that a diamond / 4-3-1-2 is suddenly an unworkable formation. Our players are perfectly capable of playing it. It is not inherently broken, requiring any more fitness or any better or worse than any other formation. To say that the Manager should just change the system is to remove all context behind the situation.

On the other hand, if Poch doesn't want to bomb players out, and is ok with contending with stuff leaking into the press from the changing room ala Chelsea, then maybe he will change it. For whatever reason, he wants to stick by these players if they are still here, and seems to want to acknowledge and respect their power. So maybe he will acquiese.

Right now, whether to short-term get this squad back onside or simply to get to January, he should go back to 4-2-3-1. Given who is fit, match-fit and Prem sharp, he does not have the players obviously. The diamond requires your FBs to be mobile, and right now they are not up to it.

He cannot bomb players out in Oct and he won’t. He needs to make it work short-term and keep us firmly in the top 4 race. I think if we scrape 2nd in the group and are top 5 Jam 1st, we will be able to get who we want in (Dybala) and push on second-half of season. But short term he needs to be flexible IMO...

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I look back at our games this season, and there is a familiar pattern.

Arse away - brain fart allows them in on stroke of HT
Pana away - brain fart allows them in on stroke of HT
Leicester away - switch off after VAR allows them back into the match
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - switch off allows them to steal a win
Bayern - numerous switch offs and brain farts allow them in
Soton home - Lloris goes all Jean Michel Jarre and concocts a most gorgeous and pathetic gaffe; does not cost us.

Most of the goals we have let in have been because of stupid play/individual mistakes to my eye.

I agree with all of this, but it could also be that more mistakes get made because the players aren't comfortable, feel out of their comfort zone, and end up doing stupid things.

The half time stuff feels to me like we've switched from being a team that has generally been good in possession and knowing where the options are to one that needs to defend deep and tight at certain times. And that transition has been tougher for the players, because it's a switch in mind-set. We're conceding a lot of goals by not clearing it when we should, and trying to keep possession when the options are narrower and the opposition is pushing up, and we get disposessed. Happened at Arsenal. Happened at Leicester. Happened against Bayern. So I think we need to be clear that when we've gone into 'stem the tide' mode, that we either alter formaton or one of Kane/Son drops wider to offer a clear into the channel option. We can't play the possesion game in the narrow formation when the opposition is really pushing up. I don't think this means that the diamond in and of itself is bad, but I do think the players have struggled to adjust.

It's like the goal when Winks gets possessed against Bayern. He receives the ball in the middle with space to move into, but rather than turn, he instictively knocks it back to the defence, who give it straight back to him as the easy option, only now Bayern have pushed way up and he turns into traffic. It's partly Winks' fault for thinking the name of the name was maintaining slower tempo possession when he didn't need to, and partly the defence for giving it straight back rather than clearing. But it's like the team are struggling to adapt to new situations. The formation in and of itself is fine, but it requires (just like a high press 4-2-3-1) all the players doing all of the things right all of the time. Otherwise we look disjointed and gaps appear. That is what is happening to me.

I understand why Poch has done this. If you've largely got the same squad and you're worried about them going stale, give them something else to get their teeth into. Have us play in a different way to most of the League so that it can end up being an advantage when we get it right. But if we are going to persist with it we need to work out the kinks and the players need to do the right things in the right moments, because they aren't right now. And maybe because they are older, their capacity to learn something new is reduced.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Right now, whether to short-term get this squad back onside or simply to get to January, he should go back to 4-2-3-1. Given who is fit, match-fit and Prem sharp, he does not have the players obviously. The diamond requires your FBs to be mobile, and right now they are not up to it.

He cannot bomb players out in Oct and he won’t. He needs to make it work short-term and keep us firmly in the top 4 race. I think if we scrape 2nd in the group and are top 5 Jam 1st, we will be able to get who we want in (Dybala) and push on second-half of season. But short term he needs to be flexible IMO...

I love your optimism Steff, i really do. But when was the last time we went into a January window and "got who we want in"?
We had months in the summer (and maybe years before that) to "get who we want in".

It hasn't happened many times in much better scenarios, when we've been in better situations and we still didn't. Why anyone thinks this January will be different to the summer (or any other previous summer or January window) seriously baffles me...

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Right now, whether to short-term get this squad back onside or simply to get to January, he should go back to 4-2-3-1. Given who is fit, match-fit and Prem sharp, he does not have the players obviously. The diamond requires your FBs to be mobile, and right now they are not up to it.

He cannot bomb players out in Oct and he won’t. He needs to make it work short-term and keep us firmly in the top 4 race. I think if we scrape 2nd in the group and are top 5 Jam 1st, we will be able to get who we want in (Dybala) and push on second-half of season. But short term he needs to be flexible IMO...

See above, kind of responds to this point too. There is an argument to say that persisting a little while longer could lead to bigger advantages if it clicks. But it's a tough call.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Right now, whether to short-term get this squad back onside or simply to get to January, he should go back to 4-2-3-1. Given who is fit, match-fit and Prem sharp, he does not have the players obviously. The diamond requires your FBs to be mobile, and right now they are not up to it.

Absolutely. Pro-active management is required, and has been for some time. Would love to see Poch snap into gear (though have grave concerns that he hasnt yet already)

He cannot bomb players out in Oct and he won’t. He needs to make it work short-term and keep us firmly in the top 4 race. I think if we scrape 2nd in the group and are top 5 Jam 1st, we will be able to get who we want in (Dybala) and push on second-half of season. But short term he needs to be flexible IMO...

Of course he can. As it stands there is no reason for Eriksen to be in the squad whatsoever. And yet there he still is.

If all that "uncertainty" is what is fudging us up, remove it. We will be better off.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I just winder whether Poch is now a bit depressed with things, perhaps not really recovered from the emotional roller-coaster of our CL run and almost messing up finishing in the top 4.
That's if the reports in the Mail of him often watching training from his office is true.

That also belies a lack of motivation compared to previous times; which is all very sad.

But if we're honest, given the contradictions of the club and board in terms of FOOTBALLING ambition, who really could blame Poch for ending up in this state?

Fergie often was in his office when training was going on. Woudn't be surprised if this is Poch trying to give the players a different voice, and making it more impactful when he does decide to make an appearance.

It's clear we're going through some transition, both in terms of how things are done and formation. And the players are finding the adjustment tough. The choice is whether to stick the course or go back to what worked before. The danger with going back to what worked before is that we effectively become Chelsea. Always trying to move the club on but the players decide it is too tough for them, so they switch back. Eventually, that catches up with you. They could afford a 10th place finish and an 8th place finish. I think we still need to be at least top 6 to maintain our veneer of progress as a top club.

 

[Raziel]

Have to say, I'm a little amazed he is still here ..

 

[glorygloryeze]

Fergie often was in his office when training was going on. Woudn't be surprised if this is Poch trying to give the players a different voice, and making it more impactful when he does decide to make an appearance.

It's clear we're going through some transition, both in terms of how things are done and formation. And the players are finding the adjustment tough. The choice is whether to stick the course or go back to what worked before. The danger with going back to what worked before is that we effectively become Chelsea. Always trying to move the club on but the players decide it is too tough for them, so they switch back. Eventually, that catches up with you. They could afford a 10th place finish and an 8th place finish. I think we still need to be at least top 6 to maintain our veneer of progress as a top club.

Those are all fair points. However, if the manager himself has lost the motivation to do such a transition (entirely possible given his utterances over the months) then it's all a bit moot.
Btw, the article mentioned Poch being more distant and grumpy and not just watching training from the office.

Also, btw, i hope you are right!

Out of interest, which games playing the diamond stand out for as successes?
I ask, because you were the first that highlighted it to me as a deliberate tactics/formation being used and you've certainly not poured cold water over it like many others...

 

[glorygloryeze]

Have to say, I'm a little amazed he is still here ..

Huh? You expected him sacked the morning after???

 

[Finney Is Back]

Still want Poch to be the one to turn this around but perhaps this is no-one’s fault, it’s just a perfect storm of time, contract situations and transfer windows.... I don’t think Poch is getting the best out of the team at present. On paper we have a brilliant team, easily third best in the league and when I look at that attack I’m still not sure I’d swap it for Liverpool’s.

Do we really have the third best team in the league on paper? We indeed have some very good players and the third best squad in the league with good depth in certain positions, but we currently have some very weak components in our team - i.e. real trouble at right back, no (fit) player who can hold the midfield and a gradual decline at left back. Put a peak Michael Carrick into this Spurs team at the base of the diamond and we would probably be looking fantastic (even with our right back problems) but unfortunately peak Michael Carrick type players would be highly coveted and very, VERY expensive.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I love your optimism Steff, i really do. But when was the last time we went into a January window and "got who we want in"?
We had months in the summer (and maybe years before that) to "get who we want in".

It hasn't happened many times in much better scenarios, when we've been in better situations and we still didn't. Why anyone thinks this January will be different to the summer (or any other previous summer or January window) seriously baffles me...

I also doubt we will get anyone in Jan.