Lucas Moura

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Out of interest - If Zaha was in the squad, do you think he’d be getting much game time at the moment?

LOADS.

Honestly Id expect him to be starting a bunch, but even if he didnt he would be off the bench every game.

If we put Zaha aside as a hypothetical, who do you bring in that is better quality than and happy to be a squad player like Lamela and Moura currently are?

Hard pressed to find anyone I'd say. If we can find a player on the same level as Eriksen, then I'd maybe look at shifting Moura or Lamela, but I certainly wouldn't do it hastily.

We need to think about what "squad player" means.

In years past in meant "Not a first 11 player".

However, these days - it actually means "Squad player". As in - we have no "first 11". We have too many games for that and actually need 15-18 "first 11" players.

 

[Benny_Lad]

If we put Zaha aside as a hypothetical, who do you bring in that is better quality than and happy to be a squad player like Lamela and Moura currently are?

Hard pressed to find anyone I'd say. If we can find a player on the same level as Eriksen, then I'd maybe look at shifting Moura or Lamela, but I certainly wouldn't do it hastily.

If Dele were available at the moment I'm certain we'd have been playing all 4 recently as we normally do when they are all available (Kane, Son, Dele, Eriksen). Without Dele we are reverting to an extra defender as opposed to one of the above.

You could argue part of the reason is Poch has often used Dele in a 433 where maybe he cant with Lamela and Moura, but even then Eriksen could drop back one in to the midfield 3 if one of Moura or Lamela joined in up top.

Bottom line is he's not using them at the moment in favour of a defender. Chelsea away I can understand. But against Burnley and Leicester? - Even Arsenal came to us in a 4231 with 4 attacking players.

 

[glasgowspur]

LOADS.

Honestly Id expect him to be starting a bunch, but even if he didnt he would be off the bench every game.





We need to think about what "squad player" means.

In years past in meant "Not a first 11 player".

However, these days - it actually means "Squad player". As in - we have no "first 11". We have too many games for that and actually need 15-18 "first 11" players.

Except it doesn't seem to be. Trippier and Eriksen have been brick the last three games and yet not only get picked but don't get subbed.
We have aurier and Kwp for Trippier and lamela or Moura for Eriksen so it's not as if we don't have options.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If Dele were available at the moment I'm certain we'd have been playing all 4 recently as we normally do when they are all available (Kane, Son, Dele, Eriksen). Without Dele we are reverting to an extra defender as opposed to one of the above.

You could argue part of the reason is Poch has often used Dele in a 433 where maybe he cant with Lamela and Moura, but even then Eriksen could drop back one in to the midfield 3 if one of Moura or Lamela joined in up top.

Bottom line is he's not using them at the moment in favour of a defender. Chelsea away I can understand. But against Burnley and Leicester? - Even Arsenal came to us in a 4231 with 4 attacking players.

The set up at the weekend was all about getting it wide.... which I get when playing well but it went to trippier who the passed back to sissoko... and repeat

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Except it doesn't seem to be. Trippier and Eriksen have been brick the last three games and yet not only get picked but don't get subbed.
We have aurier and Kwp for Trippier and lamela or Moura for Eriksen so it's not as if we don't have options.

Trippier needed a game to get over his ricket, if he was dropped that could have been quite damaging.

That aside, Trippier/Aurier/KWP - what difference does it make? All come with issues and none stand apart.

Eriksen isnt in the same position as Moura/Lamela. Its not like for like and so immediately becomes a more complex change to discuss.

Though I do agree, I think we should have seen more of Moura than we have.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think Poch just doesn't like using both Son and Moura together, and it's Son's form that's keeping him largely benched at the moment

 

[glasgowspur]

Trippier needed a game to get over his ricket, if he was dropped that could have been quite damaging.

That aside, Trippier/Aurier/KWP - what difference does it make? All come with issues and none stand apart.

Eriksen isnt in the same position as Moura/Lamela. Its not like for like and so immediately becomes a more complex change to discuss.

Though I do agree, I think we should have seen more of Moura than we have.

Trippier has been poor for a while, how many games do you go with him making mistakes and giving him the next game to get over before enough is enough. We rotate Fbs all the time so there was a perfect excuse.

I'd we can't replace Eriksen for a few games and change our style enough to accommodate other players then I think we have a big problem.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Trippier has been poor for a while, how many games do you go with him making mistakes and giving him the next game to get over before enough is enough. We rotate Fbs all the time so there was a perfect excuse.

I'd we can't replace Eriksen for a few games and change our style enough to accommodate other players then I think we have a big problem.

Trippier has been poor, no argument. Personally Id prefer Aurier, but he always has a brainfart in him too. However, specifically, after Chelsea where Trippier made a rather significant error, he needed to play IMO. From more a management perspective than anything else, if he got dropped it could be significant to his confidence and Poch isnt in the game of bricking on players.

If Alli were fit I think dropping Eriksen would be much simpler. Without Alli Eriksen is our only creative player in the centre(ish) of the pitch.

Drop him, put Moura/Lamela in - and watch them Son and Kane never see the ball.

You are right, we do have big problems - injuries. Persistent, and significant injuries.

Have a think about it. At what point this season have we seen our best side play? Even once?

 

[glasgowspur]

Trippier has been poor, no argument. Personally Id prefer Aurier, but he always has a brainfart in him too. However, specifically, after Chelsea where Trippier made a rather significant error, he needed to play IMO. From more a management perspective than anything else, if he got dropped it could be significant to his confidence and Poch isnt in the game of bricking on players.

If Alli were fit I think dropping Eriksen would be much simpler. Without Alli Eriksen is our only creative player in the centre(ish) of the pitch.

Drop him, put Moura/Lamela in - and watch them Son and Kane never see the ball.

You are right, we do have big problems - injuries. Persistent, and significant injuries.

Have a think about it. At what point this season have we seen our best side play? Even once?

I honestly can't remember being able to play our best 11 fully fit since Harry got injured last season.
If we are so reliant on either Eriksen or playing in a certain way then for a couple of reasons that's a big problem.
If Eriksen isn't available and we have to play someone else there, (dele?) whoever is brought in to play deles role has had little game time and little experience of the role or the game plan.
Having one style is very predictable, even more if its the same players week in and week out.
I love poch, he's done wonders and I hate the thought of him leaving, but there's somethings that are not working, haven't done soon for a while yet we won't change them.
That reads like criticism, it's not meant to, it's an observation.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Trippier has been poor, no argument. Personally Id prefer Aurier, but he always has a brainfart in him too. However, specifically, after Chelsea where Trippier made a rather significant error, he needed to play IMO. From more a management perspective than anything else, if he got dropped it could be significant to his confidence and Poch isnt in the game of bricking on players.

If Alli were fit I think dropping Eriksen would be much simpler. Without Alli Eriksen is our only creative player in the centre(ish) of the pitch.

Drop him, put Moura/Lamela in - and watch them Son and Kane never see the ball.

You are right, we do have big problems - injuries. Persistent, and significant injuries.

Have a think about it. At what point this season have we seen our best side play? Even once?

The point I've been trying to make above is that if Alli was fit I think all 4 would play in a 4231 or 433. I'd hate to think we've arrived at 5 at the back purely because Poch doesn't want to start either LM or EL.

Another factor to remember is I think Poch is way more comfortable with the 4231 when Dier plays as he just slots back to make a 3 seamlessly when the full backs push on. I dont think he sees that with Winks or Sissoko.

If We had Dele and Dier fully fit I think we'd prob have gone into Saturday as follows:


Lloris
Trips Toby Jan Rose
Dier
Sissoko

Erisen /Alli /Son
Kane

 

[StephenH]

Eriksen is a problem. If you sub or replace him there is no one even close to him in the squad in that position. Subbing/replacing is a very big call.

We have -
If fit play: Lloris, Trippier, Toby, Verts, Rose, Dier, Winks, Sissoko, Dele, Eriksen, Son, Kane. (12)
Benchers: Gazza, Sanches, Foyth, Lamela, Moura, Aurier.........Llorente (7)


Poch does though prefer a smallish squad. That must not be overlooked

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I honestly can't remember being able to play our best 11 fully fit since Harry got injured last season.
If we are so reliant on either Eriksen or playing in a certain way then for a couple of reasons that's a big problem.
If Eriksen isn't available and we have to play someone else there, (dele?) whoever is bought in to play deles role has had little game time and little experience of the role or the game plan.
Having one style is very predictable, even more if its the same players week in and week out.
I love poch, he's done wonders and I hate the thought of him leaving, but there's somethings that are not working, haven't done soon for a while yet we won't change them.
That reads like criticism, it's not meant to, it's an observation.

Dele isnt fit. That is the point. We dont have that option.

Without Eriksen playing centrally we are limited to Winks, Sissoko, Wanyama (just) and Skipp in the middle of the field.

Hardly an improvement, is it?

I dont think we are wed to one particular style, and I dont think ordinarily we are that predictable. I do think our squad has been decimated by injury all season, and we have spent a full year making do. Its been sub-optimal the whole time.

Personally I think Lamela could do a job in that middle attacking area, but Poch has virtually never played him there so obviously doesnt share that opinion.

You want to bring in Moura/Lamela, its as a wing forward. Taking Eriksen out of the team to do so means service to those players is basically non existant - not because we are predictable but because we have literally no one else in there to do the job!

 

[StephenH]

We are very samey to watch!

But other than City who isn't?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We are very samey to watch!

But other than City who isn't?

City are too

Football follows fashion

Coaches all seem to want a high a press now, with forwards

 

[glasgowspur]

Dele isnt fit. That is the point. We dont have that option.

Without Eriksen playing centrally we are limited to Winks, Sissoko, Wanyama (just) and Skipp in the middle of the field.

Hardly an improvement, is it?

I dont think we are wed to one particular style, and I dont think ordinarily we are that predictable. I do think our squad has been decimated by injury all season, and we have spent a full year making do. Its been sub-optimal the whole time.

Personally I think Lamela could do a job in that middle attacking area, but Poch has virtually never played him there so obviously doesnt share that opinion.

You want to bring in Moura/Lamela, its as a wing forward. Taking Eriksen out of the team to do so means service to those players is basically non existant - not because we are predictable but because we have literally no one else in there to do the job!

Positionally I think dele or lamela (and maybe even Harry with son up top), could cover Eriksen. It would require a different approach though because they don't play the same way Eriksen does. It seems to me we are to wedded to this set up.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Positionally I think dele or lamela (and maybe even Harry with son up top), could cover Eriksen. It would require a different approach though because they don't play the same way Eriksen does. It seems to me we are to wedded to this set up.

Despite switching from 4 at the back to 3? Having a flat 4, wing backs, being a 4-2-3-1 then 4-3-3 or 3-4-3?

I dont think we are wed to any particular set up at all.

I agree with you, I think Dele and Lamela can work centrally. But as stated - Dele isnt fit so its not a factor in this - and Lamela has never been trusted there by Poch, so the point seems moot.

In 6 years, if Poch thought Lamela was viable there, we would have seen it. Its never happened.

I dont think that speaks to a desire to a specific formation, rather it speaks to Pochs judgement of the player.

He has been happier to put Moura central more than Lamela, although admitedly more as a front 2 than as an attacking player behind the striker.

 

[StephenH]

Trouble is who would want Lamela?
Maybe on 'a free' and subsidised wages.

I hope if Moura doesn't kick on relatively soon we don't persevere for too long.

 

[glasgowspur]

Despite switching from 4 at the back to 3? Having a flat 4, wing backs, being a 4-2-3-1 then 4-3-3 or 3-4-3?

I dont think we are wed to any particular set up at all.

I agree with you, I think Dele and Lamela can work centrally. But as stated - Dele isnt fit so its not a factor in this - and Lamela has never been trusted there by Poch, so the point seems moot.

In 6 years, if Poch thought Lamela was viable there, we would have seen it. Its never happened.

I dont think that speaks to a desire to a specific formation, rather it speaks to Pochs judgement of the player.

He has been happier to put Moura central more than Lamela, although admitedly more as a front 2 than as an attacking player behind the striker.

That's what I find so bizarre, we regularly change shape and personal at the back, but from middle forward it seldom changes.
We have great success with dele going beyond Harry, dele gets injured and no one else can do it?
Eriksen is badly out of form but we can't change anything, everything still has to go through him?

 

[glasgowspur]

Trouble is who would want Lamela?
Maybe on 'a free' and subsidised wages.

I hope if Moura doesn't kick on relatively soon we don't persevere for too long.

Lamela and Moura are better players than many on here give them credit for. Your comment about his high wages highlights the double standards as you are one of the biggest moaners that we don't pay high wages. I doubt he will be on more than what Grealish would want.
They don't fit how poch wants play which makes you wonder why we bought Moura.
He inherited lamela so that's nobodies fault there.

 

[StephenH]

I haven't mentioned his "high wages"?

Problem with Lamela is he's still here!
I don't want to be saying similar about Moura in two seasons time unless he steps up.
Grealish has disappointed this season.