Levy's Plan

[Baleforce]

It didn't need to be, that's just the path they took or how the path unfolded- i don't understand why that is a sticking point for you? So what?

Paying a release clause is not bullying the market and negotiating a cut price transfer due to the selling club being in financial difficulty is nothing new to Levy is it mate

We also bought VDV & Vicario alongside Madds & Johnson - 4 first team signings in one window
Kulu + Bentancur in a Jan window
Richy + Bissouma + Romero
Ndombele + GLC

You're talking like we've just been buying kids and the odd first team signing to supplement it - that just hasn't been the case. Last summer was an aberration in that sense - not the norm and even then we were in the market for more established players too (Neto/Calafori)

I see what you did.

Or, great minds think alike.

 

[Craig_J]

But again, we’ve never signed two big players like this in such a quick timeframe. We have signed players of this price range before, but never more than one in the same window. MGW and Kudus this quickly at the start of the window with promise of more to come is absolutely not more of the same pattern.

And again, I’m still not sure why we would stockpile potential in the first place, rather than go for more proven quality last year, or the year before? Unless, the will to spend more, or the money available, or the people with influence on the decisions has changed. If we wanted to make a push to win the league, why is it starting now?

Because Levy knows if he spends a few hundred million a year he doesn’t have to speak to the THST

 

[Baleforce]

Because Levy knows if he spends a few hundred million a year he doesn’t have to speak to the THST

If he spends one single a pound a year he still doesn't have to speak to those dipbricks.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It didn't need to be, that's just the path they took or how the path unfolded- i don't understand why that is a sticking point for you? So what?

Paying a release clause is not bullying the market and negotiating a cut price transfer due to the selling club being in financial difficulty is nothing new to Levy is it mate

We also bought VDV & Vicario alongside Madds & Johnson - 4 first team signings in one window
Kulu + Bentancur in a Jan window
Richy + Bissouma + Romero
Ndombele + GLC

You're talking like we've just been buying kids and the odd first team signing to supplement it - that just hasn't been the case. Last summer was an aberration in that sense - not the norm and even then we were in the market for more established players too (Neto/Calafori)

No I’m not talking like we’ve just been buying kids! That’s what you said! That we previously were signing younger players but now we can sign a couple of big players because that’s where we’ve gotten the squad to. My question has always been why? Why were we not signing the top players at the same clip, at the same speed, previously? Why did we have to follow the ‘more young players first’ sequence? It’s either money, will to compete, or different people influencing the approach.

I’ve acknowledged we’ve signed players of a similar profile before. I’m talking about the time in the window they’ve been signed, the fact that two came relatively quickly, and that there likely is still more to come.

To be clear I’m absolutely NOT saying that we’ve not signed players for the first team before. Again, it’s the timing of the window, the profile of the signings, the likelihood that there is more to come. Alongside leadership shake up. It feels like it’s something different.

Richarlison and Romero did not sign in the same year. Signing Kulusevski and Bentancur was great but they were unwanted by their club, it’s not remotely the same context.

Are you seriously suggesting that Levy hasn’t been known to drag deals out for way longer than necessary? To try and get players for under the release clause? Or to drag a deal until the end of the window to in order to squeeze a struggling selling club even more? Or how about trying to squeeze Villa on Grealish and then just losing the opportunity? Maybe we do have a bit more money now with the stadium, but the speed in which we’re moving this year for higher end players is different.

It is absolutely undeniable that Levy has spent a long time negotiating previously. Where as now the club, at least in this window, is moving quickly. This is my point around ‘bullying’. Especially if more players get signed that costs tens of millions each. Especially if they are proven in this league and in the first 11 of their selling club.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

reputation wise, is this any different to Solanke and Odobert, Johnson and Maddison, Lo Celso and Ndombele?

it's certainly not as big as Richi and Romero, and I would argue (maybe only me), Werner

the fees are big due to the market, but its a player who had a tough year in a team fighting relegation and an AM who had a great year, but in a club more used to being in the Championship

these are exactly the type of player we have targeted in ENIC's tenure

To be clear, I am absolutely not denying that we have signed this profile of player in the past. Of course we have! I’m talking about the speed to conclude the deals, the rate of the deals, and the likelihood that there will be more deals because we are at the start of the window.

I would say the two signings so far are similar to Maddison and Johnson. But one from a relegated side and Johnson of two years ago…I think MGW and Kudus are a bit more of a statement of intent. But I agree they are close. (I would also say that summer we lose Kane, so we’re going to be doing something).

I would absolutely not say that the profile of Kudus and MGW is remotely similar to Odobert, Lo Celso or N’Dombele. Because they were not proven in the PL and key players in the first 11 of PL clubs. Simple as that.

 

[Craig_J]

In all seriousness it could just be he feels more comfortable with our stadium situation in either a financial way or even feels enough time has passed since Covid that he feels we can spend more now

Or it’s just a one off thing this season to ensure we don’t finish so low again. ENIC did put £150m in under Conte so it has happened once before.

I do personally feel that we felt threatened by the takeover of Saudi Sportswashing Machine because it made it a 7 team squeeze for 5 CL slots

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It didn't need to be, that's just the path they took or how the path unfolded- i don't understand why that is a sticking point for you? So what?

Paying a release clause is not bullying the market and negotiating a cut price transfer due to the selling club being in financial difficulty is nothing new to Levy is it mate

We also bought VDV & Vicario alongside Madds & Johnson - 4 first team signings in one window
Kulu + Bentancur in a Jan window
Richy + Bissouma + Romero
Ndombele + GLC

You're talking like we've just been buying kids and the odd first team signing to supplement it - that just hasn't been the case. Last summer was an aberration in that sense - not the norm and even then we were in the market for more established players too (Neto/Calafori)

Btw, the point I am getting at, why it is a ‘sticking point’, is because we absolutely haven’t demonstrated the ambition to try and win the league with how we’ve approached the market previously. You seem to look upon that fact as if Levy had no other option - ‘that’s just the way it unfolded’. I am saying that different owners, or more money, or different decision making on how to use that money, would have meant we made different decisions.

There is a chance that we get to the end of this window and we look at the squad and we can legitimately say ‘wow, Levy said he wanted to win the PL and CL, and then the club built a squad to realistically achieve that in the next couple of years.’

This is what I am getting at. We can be the club that wants to wait for Gray and Bergval to hit their prime 5 years from now, or we can be the club that wants to win the biggest trophies in the next 1-2. You seem to be suggesting we had absolutely no choice but to act like the former, and I’m saying I want to see us acting like the latter. And there’s a chance we get to the end of this window and we will have acted like the latter. I’d be delighted if we have.

If on the other hand we get to the end, and the only other signings are a 22 year old from an upper mid table German team to play centre mid, and someone from France who we hope can compete with Udogie…then I’d say it’s been a similar window to most others. So let’s see in September.

 

[Baleforce]

To be clear, I am absolutely not denying that we have signed this profile of player in the past. Of course we have! I’m talking about the speed to conclude the deals, the rate of the deals, and the likelihood that there will be more deals because we are at the start of the window.

I would say the two signings so far are similar to Maddison and Johnson. But one from a relegated side and Johnson of two years ago…I think MGW and Kudus are a bit more of a statement of intent. But I agree they are close. (I would also say that summer we lose Kane, so we’re going to be doing something).

I would absolutely not say that the profile of Kudus and MGW is remotely similar to Odobert, Lo Celso or N’Dombele. Because they were not proven in the PL and key players in the first 11 of PL clubs. Simple as that.

I think Kudus and Odobert were very close stats wise in their previous seasons to signing, close in appearances and goals, both for dogbrick teams at the bottom of the PL table.

MGW has potential, but Ndombele and Lo Celso were huge signings at the time.

I don’t put much stock in the timing, likely more coincidence than anything else.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think Kudus and Odobert were very close stats wise in their previous seasons to signing, close in appearances and goals, both for dogbrick teams at the bottom of the PL table.

MGW has potential, but Ndombele and Lo Celso were huge signings at the time.

I don’t put much stock in the timing, likely more coincidence than anything else.

For me, Odobert is a ‘potential’ signing. I love him, I think he could be great. But he’s potential. Kudus we are taking from a PL team’s first 11. He’s proven.

Same for MGW. He has potential but he’s already pretty strong, and crucially proven in this league which also Lo Celso and Tanguay weren’t.

If you disagree, fair enough, happy to agree to disagree on both of these.

 

[Lilbaz]

For me, Odobert is a ‘potential’ signing. I love him, I think he could be great. But he’s potential. Kudus we are taking from a PL team’s first 11. He’s proven.

Same for MGW. He has potential but he’s already pretty strong, and crucially proven in this league which also Lo Celso and Tanguay weren’t.

If you disagree, fair enough, happy to agree to disagree on both of these.

Odobert was a starter for a prem team when we bought him.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Odobert was a starter for a prem team when we bought him.

Are we doing this?

He was a 19 year old starter for a relegated team. I’m so glad we have him, but he was not a ‘statement of intent’ signing that suggested we were going to push for something more this time around. He is an archetypal potential signing, and that’s fine.

My point was that so far we’ve started the window signing bona fide, proven, first 11 players from other PL sides. I’m sure we will continue to sign some potential, but if this window skews more ‘proven’ than potential, I think it’s fair to say that’s a different strategy in play.

Whether that’s new investment, new people, or frankly whether it’s exactly the same people making the decisions and they’ve changed up how they approach things, I won’t really care. I’m not in some camp one way or the other, I just want us to win the league. I feel like people are so reticent to admit that this summer might be different, because it would suggest that we could have done more earlier.

I really don’t care! Even if it’s simply the fact that we now have more confidence in our stadium revenue and we’re spending more, and that was always the plan, great! If we get to the end of this window, and we’ve signed multiple first 11 players that suggest we want to challenge for the league, I think it’s fair to suggest that ‘something’ different is afoot this summer, whatever that is. If we follow MGW and Kudus with a couple more signings from mid table continental sides that will have some sort of adaptation period, then yes it will be more of the same.

Why though is it so hard to concede that this window, given the way that it has started, *might* herald the start of a different way of doing things?

 

[Lilbaz]

Are we doing this?

He was a 19 year old starter for a relegated team. I’m so glad we have him, but he was not a ‘statement of intent’ signing that suggested we were going to push for something more this time around. He is an archetypal potential signing, and that’s fine.

My point was that so far we’ve started the window signing bona fide, proven, first 11 players from other PL sides. I’m sure we will continue to sign some potential, but if this window skews more ‘proven’ than potential, I think it’s fair to say that’s a different strategy in play.

Whether that’s new investment, new people, or frankly whether it’s exactly the same people making the decisions and they’ve changed up how they approach things, I won’t really care. I’m not in some camp one way or the other, I just want us to win the league. I feel like people are so reticent to admit that this summer might be different, because it would suggest that we could have done more earlier.

I really don’t care! Even if it’s simply the fact that we now have more confidence in our stadium revenue and we’re spending more, and that was always the plan, great! If we get to the end of this window, and we’ve signed multiple first 11 players that suggest we want to challenge for the league, I think it’s fair to suggest that ‘something’ different is afoot this summer, whatever that is. If we follow MGW and Kudus with a couple more signings from mid table continental sides that will have some sort of adaptation period, then yes it will be more of the same.

Why though is it so hard to concede that this window, given the way that it has started, *might* herald the start of a different way of doing things?

Hey we're all happy with mgw and kudus coming in. But odobert was a starter for a prem team where he played well. Yes he was younger and had less experience but he was a prem player.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Hey we're all happy with mgw and kudus coming in. But odobert was a starter for a prem team where he played well. Yes he was younger and had less experience but he was a prem player.

I’m not sure how else to say it…

I’ve said multiple times, I’m not denying that we’ve signed first team players. I’m also delighted we have Odobert.

But signing him is not proof that we are making a charge on the very biggest trophies. My entire point was that as a club we may be moving differently in the transfer market this summer compared to years past. We don’t know for sure, and we can revisit this in September,

I think what should be beyond debate though, is that Odobert is not a signing that would have suggested Spurs were going for the biggest trophies. He had not proven output at anything remotely approaching starting for a club at our level. He’s a level up from Gray and Bergval, but he is not MGW or Kudus level. I can’t believe that this is controversial to say.