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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Baleforce said:
If that argument stands tactically that’s another thing, human psychology is fixed, that was the main thing at Porto/Chelsea/Inter, even Madrid, getting the players there to realise that Messi could be beaten, it’s the mindset change Spurs needs.
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Yes, that's what I meant earlier, in a nutshell. I don't know what went wrong here but we never managed to replicate the attitude most of his previous teams were famous for. Whether that's his fault or the players', we'll never know for sure but I think considering the way he splits the fan base and the quality of football on display, if he can't get that right, he's not worth the trouble.

I think if people looked back at his tenure without any prejudice, they'd see that he really did try to make it work. He's shown more flexibility than a lot of his peers do (including Klopp, for instance) but his inability to change our mindset tips the balance against him, for me. Yesterday was the last straw because it was typical of what we've been missing under Pochettino and typical of what he was supposed to fix.
 
Jurgen the German said:
And 71 the year after mate. And as others have said, we certainly weren’t finishing top 4 in Poch’s last season the way it was going. Poch is by far the best manager we’ve had in the PL era but I don’t think we need to pretend everything was great before he was sacked. We lost 20 games in all comps in his last full season. I won’t disagree that the squad needed a refresh but the squad still had more than enough quality to be losing 20 games (13 of those in the league).
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Keep rolling it back without due context, all good! As for the "certainly weren't finishing top 4 in his final season" that's a guess at most. He was sacked in November with the season not even half done. With due respect, cannot claim any credible "certainty".
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Yes, that's what I meant earlier, in a nutshell. I don't know what went wrong here but we never managed to replicate the attitude most of his previous teams were famous for. Whether that's his fault or the players', we'll never know for sure but I think considering the way he splits the fan base and the quality of football on display, if he can't get that right, he's not worth the trouble.

I think if people looked back at his tenure without any prejudice, they'd see that he really did try to make it work. He's shown more flexibility than a lot of his peers do (including Klopp, for instance) but his inability to change our mindset tips the balance against him, for me. Yesterday was the last straw because it was typical of what we've been missing under Pochettino and typical of what he was supposed to fix.
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I would hope he tried to make it work for a while, that is his job, but he is currently in self-protection mode. He is a binary dinosaur.
 
thfcsteff said:
I would hope he tried to make it work for a while, that is his job, but he is currently in self-protection mode. He is a binary dinosaur.
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I think he is still trying to make it work, we are still seeing new things, when the line up stops changing and when he doesn’t offer himself to the press, that’s when we’ll know he’s given up.
 
thfcsteff said:
I would hope he tried to make it work for a while, that is his job, but he is currently in self-protection mode. He is a binary dinosaur.
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Most managers only have one plan. When things go south, they stick to it until the results are back. That's what Klopp's (the media darling) been doing at Dortmund and Liverpool. Same goes for Wenger or even Pochettino, for that matter. They have one receipe for success and they keep doing the same things over and over again, until somehow, they get back to winning ways.

At least, Mourinho tried a lot of different things to solve our problems at the back. He should be credited for that, even if, at the end of the day, it didn't work.

As for his comments on the press, I disagree with the majority: you should be allowed to speak your mind. People getting upset because the manager actually has something to say, instead of the tepid comments you hear all year long, is a sign of times, in my opinion. If you think a manager's job is to spew nonesense like 'we're taking it one game at time' and 'we respect everyone but we're afraid of no-one' or 'we played well but they were better on the day' all year long, fair enough. Me, I think it's the worst kind of flimflam and I'm willing to side with anyone who has the guts to try something different, no matter how biased his arguments are (aren't they all?).
 
Baleforce said:
If that argument stands tactically that’s another thing, human psychology is fixed, that was the main thing at Porto/Chelsea/Inter, even Madrid, getting the players there to realise that Messi could be beaten, it’s the mindset change Spurs needs.
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If you think developing a culture, management styles and psychology techniques are fixed, I'd disagree.

Even that moves on...and Chelsea the second time along with Man Utd, and now us would suggest, that along with his tactics are well past there sell by date.

But hey, he took 11 months to study, re-evaluate and re-invent himself.

Leopards eh?
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Most managers only have one plan. When things go south, they stick to it until the results are back. That's what Klopp's (the media darling) been doing at Dortmund and Liverpool. Same goes for Wenger or even Pochettino, for that matter. They have one receipe for success and they keep doing the same things over and over again, until somehow, they get back to winning ways.

At least, Mourinho tried a lot of different things to solve our problems at the back. He should be credited for that, even if, at the end of the day, it didn't work.

As for his comments on the press, I disagree with the majority: you should be allowed to speak your mind. People getting upset because the manager actually has something to say, instead of the tepid comments you hear all year long, is a sign of times, in my opinion. If you think a manager's job is to spew nonesense like 'we're taking it one game at time' and 'we respect everyone but we're afraid of no-one' or 'we played well but they were better on the day' all year long, fair enough. Me, I think it's the worst kind of flimflam and I'm willing to side with anyone who has the guts to try something different, no matter how biased his arguments are (aren't they all?).
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I get your sentiment, but this isn't the Gallagher brothers.

Lobbing hand grenades, and burning people isn't conducive to a turnaround at a football club.

And why give the press any juice, they're all leeches, it can simply all go on behind closed doors. This isn't a 'any publicity is good publicity' scenario, it's communicating thru a third party, to keep the issues in house takes bigger gonads, unless you've got your own agenda....which , of course, he has.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
If you think developing a culture, management styles and psychology techniques are fixed, I'd disagree.
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That’s three very different things there, I agree on the first two, but ways to motivate humans and reprogram/condition their minds doesn’t change any quicker than we evolve.

He’s certainly failed here for me, I expected a team of absolute clams by now, we even had to fake the players sleeping with teammates wives thing, every good team has that.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I get your sentiment, but this isn't the Gallagher brothers.

Lobbing hand grenades, and burning people isn't conducive to a turnaround at a football club.

And why give the press any juice, they're all leeches, it can simply all go on behind closed doors. This isn't a 'any publicity is good publicity' scenario, it's communicating thru a third party, to keep the issues in house takes bigger gonad*s, unless you've got your own agenda....which , of course, he has.
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To be fair, everybody has. I understand your point of view and, to be fair, being... let's say 'non-judgemental' is probably the safest way to conduct your business with the press. Again, it's a sign of times: the media like smiley, good-looking people. I understand it's a personal opinion but I enjoyed the over-the-top comments, the war of words and even the personal feuds through the media led by people who looked like people you could meet in a pub. That's what we had, back in the 80s and 90s. Maybe that's because, back then, football was closer to rock'n'roll than the corporate world.

I think I'd be a hypocrite if, while longing for these 'good old days' (from my point of view), I took a shot at a guy who's the closest thing to a flashback from these times. Anyway, at the end of the day, I think he's doing more damage to his career than anything else. A lot of people endured his antics as long as he was winning but I think his tactical approach isn't working very well with the way football has evolved. When I look at the press, he gets a lot more stick than the players do - when they should at least be sharing some of the blame.

Despite his comments, nobody's talking about Sanchez' performance against Saudi Sportswashing Machine...
 
Baleforce said:
That’s three very different things there, I agree on the first two, but ways to motivate humans and reprogram/condition their minds doesn’t change any quicker than we evolve.
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But there's more than one way to do that? I don't think Klopp or Rogers, for example, techniques or approach is anything like Jose's
 
I would have accepted poor football and even no immediate trophies under Jose if he was laying down a culture of winning.
I would even have applauded him for doing it if he himself wasn't a success here but had broken this terrible defeatist attitude and the next manager had something to build on.
But it says a lot about our club that even Jose can't do it.
And if Jose can't do it I don't know who can.
What I do know is some of these players are running out of excuses.
 
glasgowspur said:
I haven't seen anything from them to suggest they either are good enough or care enough.
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We did not lose out to Saudi Sportswashing Machine because we don’t care enough we lost because we have no defensive cohesion or organisation!
Mourinho is making a poor defensive unit worse! The ‘Toby saga’ is very strange and only goes increase the concern with Mourinho’s current tenure!
 
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