Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Baleforce]

We've talked a lot about this amongst the pod group, you do need the whole quote though as Jose (as a manager) would 400% disagree with the first part of it .(fallacy the game is about winning etc) We as fans though (and specifically Tottenham fans) would weep at how far away we are from aligning ourselves with any part of the sentiments carried in that quote.

I think that quote is a bit of a millstone around our neck.

You can't have glory without winning, that has to come first.

We've not lived up to any of it have we.

 

[Baleforce]

I do. And they lost faith in Pochettino, too? Why don't they conduct the interviews themselves, then? Even Kane, who's by far the best player at the club, has won nothing so far in his career. You could argue that it's because he's been with us the whole time but he's yet to make a difference with England too.

If it's true (we don't know that), it's a very unprofessional attitude. Granted, you see that a lot these days but that doesn't make it ok. They should be giving their all, regardless of what they think about the manager or the system. If they're not good enough or if the system is flawed, fair enough, but as a supporter, I find it hard to accept that a whole season goes down the drain because 'a bunch of players no longer believe in the manager'.

I'm truly amazed that so many people think it's part of the game. It was the same thing in the late 90s when nobody was good enough for the sorry bunch of losers we called our players and that we had to endure for much longer than any of the managers they 'didn't believe in'.

(rant over - collects toys back into the pram)

I completely agree.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

In the two seasons since we have moved in to the stadium we've spent 160m+ Net on transfers, compared to 30m Net for the 4 years previous whilst work was being carried out. (Over a 400% increase?)

I think the evidence shows Levy will spend now we're in - obviously though the pandemic and lack of fans at the stadium is going to effect that quite considerably, just hopefully it's not too long lasting.

Levy will spend if he can
He has no risk of a stadium unknown now so will commit money. Who abs how we buy is key of course. I still say selling is more important to get right as it’s clearly crazily difficult
But that may be why he keeps Jose here
It becomes the “started so ill finish” phase ...

 

[StephenH]

Time for reset and with new manager and a push for top four.
Forget the cups they are a distractions.

 

[billyiddo]

I completely agree.

It happened to Jose at Chelsea and United - probably others but i don't follow as closely abroad. there's another common denominator there

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I do. And they lost faith in Pochettino, too? Why don't they conduct the interviews themselves, then? Even Kane, who's by far the best player at the club, has won nothing so far in his career. You could argue that it's because he's been with us the whole time but he's yet to make a difference with England too.

If it's true (we don't know that), it's a very unprofessional attitude. Granted, you see that a lot these days but that doesn't make it ok. They should be giving their all, regardless of what they think about the manager or the system. If they're not good enough or if the system is flawed, fair enough, but as a supporter, I find it hard to accept that a whole season goes down the drain because 'a bunch of players no longer believe in the manager'.

I'm truly amazed that so many people think it's part of the game. It was the same thing in the late 90s when nobody was good enough for the sorry bunch of losers we called our players and that we had to endure for much longer than any of the managers they 'didn't believe in'.

(rant over - collects toys back into the pram)

All fair IMO
We have a divide again
Players and manager
I’d love to back Jose to fix it but right now he looks broken like he did in his tail end United and Chelsea days (he looks like a homeless man)
The players are not playing for him and are really showing nothing (no pride at least)
He either changes up the team again (when did we last pick the same side) or he plods along with the same guys which are killing him and he loses his job..
I said it after the pool game, the next 3 are the ones to judge him on... and it’s clear that the divide is there. The players should be embarrassed for it to be dejavu but we don’t see what goes on behind the scenes to know.
The tactics and motivation just isn’t there abs we know where that buck sits.

 

[Baleforce]

All fair IMO
We have a divide again
Players and manager
I’d love to back Jose to fix it but right now he looks broken like he did in his tail end United and Chelsea days (he looks like a homeless man)
The players are not playing for him and are really showing nothing (no pride at least)
He either changes up the team again (when did we last pick the same side) or he plods along with the same guys which are killing him and he loses his job..
I said it after the pool game, the next 3 are the ones to judge him on... and it’s clear that the divide is there. The players should be embarrassed for it to be dejavu but we don’t see what goes on behind the scenes to know.
The tactics and motivation just isn’t there abs we know where that buck sits.

They are not playing for the club, or the money, or themselves either.

It's unprofessional, and it doesn't just happen at Spurs.

 

[Baleforce]

It happened to Jose at Chelsea and United - probably others but i don't follow as closely abroad. there's another common denominator there

It happens everywhere.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

We've been like this since we lost at Burnley. Falling off a cliff.

• In the first 26 games 0f 2018/19 we won 20 games, averaging 2.31 points per game, title winning form most seasons.

• In the following 26 games we won just 6, averaging 0.92 points per game, relegation form.

• In Jose's 47 league games we have won 22, averaging 1.66 points per game, top 6 most seasons.

The point I am trying to makie is that this has been going on two years now and the problem is not solely Mourinho, the players raise massive questions as well. It is also a stick to beat Levy with, his frugal approach makes him a very good chairman no doubt, but not the best in the World, as he dilly dallys even when prices requested in negotiations are still well within resources. Yes his approach helps off the pitch but not on it, with the lack of signings during 2018/19 being main culprit for this fall in form.

Another issue at hand is expectations, they have sky rocketed since we were top of the league, first in time in 35+ years for that stage of the season, and poor non-existent performances have compounded the expectations not being met. Having said that, in some contradiction, you could have no expectations, let alone realistic ones, and still be mad at the complete lack of effort on the pitch, appalling Jykell and Hyde stuff.

For me, the 1.66 points per game is a sign of Jose steadying the ship, yes we are not out of the storm by any margin and I can see further frustrations ahead, regardless as to who is in charge. There has been some improvement in terms of points but sadly turgid performances have been consistent with blame being shared from top to bottom.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They are not playing for the club, or the money, or themselves either.

It's unprofessional, and it doesn't just happen at Spurs.

True
As I said we have seen it before
But the divide right now looks so big it’s scary
Things have to change. It’s a repeat of what happened or Poch.
It’s a repeat of what happened with Jose at Chelsea and United without the trophies behind him
It’s what me and my mate predicted would happen (caveat we didn’t know when)
It’s grim
It’s much more than the tactics but things have to work hand in glove. Seeing Sissoko playing as a DM stop tracking... seeing Davies completely over run with nothing changing... seeing Vinny run through and literally stumble over his feet... it was comedy with very highly paid comedians.

 

[billyiddo]

It happens everywhere.

What does that tell you?

At the top level small percentages make big differences and if you aren't all pulling in the same direction then that will have an effect. I don't really think players down-tools, it's just when things aren't working from the top down it manifests itself in the type of lacklustre performances we're seeing now.

 

[tynesidespur]

I do. And they lost faith in Pochettino, too? Why don't they conduct the interviews themselves, then? Even Kane, who's by far the best player at the club, has won nothing so far in his career. You could argue that it's because he's been with us the whole time but he's yet to make a difference with England too.

If it's true (we don't know that), it's a very unprofessional attitude. Granted, you see that a lot these days but that doesn't make it ok. They should be giving their all, regardless of what they think about the manager or the system. If they're not good enough or if the system is flawed, fair enough, but as a supporter, I find it hard to accept that a whole season goes down the drain because 'a bunch of players no longer believe in the manager'.

I'm truly amazed that so many people think it's part of the game. It was the same thing in the late 90s when nobody was good enough for the sorry bunch of losers we called our players and that we had to endure for much longer than any of the managers they 'didn't believe in'.

(rant over - collects toys back into the pram)

This is a fair comment and I think there are definitely some who are hiding from the ball and not willing to take responsibility.
There is another way for players to "down tools" and that would be that if the instructions are really that defensive and negative for a group of senior players - Kane/Son/Lloris/Toby - to get together and agree to deliberately go against the managers instructions and start to take risks, play expansive football and if necessary release themselves from these shackles. It would show the manager up for what he is - I suspect he'd have a complete meltdown and there would be no way back because he'd be going against our best players.
Much better that than downing tools, stopping running and hiding from the ball.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We've been like this since we lost at Burnley. Falling off a cliff.

• In the first 26 games 0f 2018/19 we won 20 games, averaging 2.31 points per game, title winning form most seasons.

• In the following 26 games we won just 6, averaging 0.92 points per game, relegation form.

• In Jose's 47 league games we have won 22, averaging 1.66 points per game, top 6 most seasons.

The point I am trying to makie is that this has been going on two years now and the problem is not solely Mourinho, the players raise massive questions as well. It is also a stick to beat Levy with, his frugal approach makes him a very good chairman no doubt, but not the best in the World, as he dilly dallys even when prices requested in negotiations are still well within resources. Yes his approach helps off the pitch but not on it, with the lack of signings during 2018/19 being main culprit for this fall in form.

Another issue at hand is expectations, they have sky rocketed since we were top of the league, first in time in 35+ years for that stage of the season, and poor non-existent performances have compounded the expectations not being met. Having said that, in some contradiction, you could have no expectations, let alone realistic ones, and still be mad at the complete lack of effort on the pitch, appalling Jykell and Hyde stuff.

For me, the 1.66 points per game is a sign of Jose steadying the ship, yes we are not out of the storm by any margin and I can see further frustrations ahead, regardless as to who is in charge. There has been some improvement in terms of points but sadly turgid performances have been consistent with blame being shared from top to bottom.

I get what your saying and I kinda agree... but this is the same form we had at the same time last season I think. No goals, no defending, no hope.
What’s changed?
We have added some better players (ok some are out currently). Beyond that, no fans and the football has got worse and worse
It’s possible the balls deep master plan could work with a fully fit team but that team is now where near being seen.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What does that tell you?

At the top level small percentages make big differences and if you aren't all pulling in the same direction then that will have an effect. I don't really think players down-tools, it's just when things aren't working from the top down it manifests itself in the type of lacklustre performances we're seeing now.

I agree with your first bit
But players do down tools. Plenty of Ex players have said that many times
They manipulate the situations as much as they can. Their human beings and it may not always be intentional or conscious
But the manager has to pick it up and be accountable
I do think we have a huge problem with accountability in the current set up

It’s always amazing when things are going well players don’t get injured... they fight to play
But it always works the other way when it’s going wrong

 

[AdamB]

I must be one of the few who has some (albeit not much) faith that things can change and that's because up until Liverpool away we were doing fine. Granted the football wasn't great but we were getting results and managed to nullify City earlier on and gave Liverpool a good game and on another day might have won.

It seems that all of these late goals we've conceded has seen Jose and I guess some of the players get scared and they've retreated into their shell and can't seem to get out of it. Jose is generally a defensive manager anyway who relies a lot on players with strong leadership and the ability to concentrate for 90 minutes which doesn't help things.

Don't forget we smashed Southampton, Utd and for 80 minutes gave West Ham a good beating all of which were good performances so at some point we had a vague way of playing that worked well.

Definitely a switch in players is needed, Dier dropped, don't play Sissoko if PEH is playing. Give Lamela more minutes as he's looked decent and I think we could start to play a bit better - maybe retain more possession in midfield where we're so wasteful.

Defensive football might be dull but a great counter attacking team who attack with pace and purpose can be good to watch.

The reason that we've had some decent results is that we have two world class players in attack. They've won games on their own and its been papering over the cracks

 

[Baleforce]

This is a fair comment and I think there are definitely some who are hiding from the ball and not willing to take responsibility.
There is another way for players to "down tools" and that would be that if the instructions are really that defensive and negative for a group of senior players - Kane/Son/Lloris/Toby - to get together and agree to deliberately go against the managers instructions and start to take risks, play expansive football and if necessary release themselves from these shackles. It would show the manager up for what he is - I suspect he'd have a complete meltdown and there would be no way back because he'd be going against our best players.
Much better that than downing tools, stopping running and hiding from the ball.

If they did that I'd want them out of the club, there is a chain of command that has to be followed, players do what the manager tells them, if that isn't happen it's chaos.

 

[Baleforce]

What does that tell you?

At the top level small percentages make big differences and if you aren't all pulling in the same direction then that will have an effect. I don't really think players down-tools, it's just when things aren't working from the top down it manifests itself in the type of lacklustre performances we're seeing now.

that continuing the game with normal humans is folly and the sooner we replace them with reprogrammed automatons or actual cyborgs/robots the better the game will be

 

[AdamB]

I agree with your first bit
But players do down tools. Plenty of Ex players have said that many times
They manipulate the situations as much as they can. Their human beings and it may not always be intentional or conscious
But the manager has to pick it up and be accountable
I do think we have a huge problem with accountability in the current set up

It’s always amazing when things are going well players don’t get injured... they fight to play
But it always works the other way when it’s going wrong

I think the 'downing tools' phrase is a little misleading personally.

When you have a system and way of playing which is engrained and which the players are bought in to, then that carries you through difficult periods.

The problem is that we have no system or way of attack, and many people (fans or pundits, but probably players too) don't see how we will get results beyond our two mega-stars conjuring something up

So if players lack the belief as a result of us not having any attacking tactics, its not hard to see how you might only get 90% or 95% out of them. Unfortunately that last few % makes a big difference in the PL

I'm afraid it comes back to Jose. He needs to install a way of attacking, which in turn will help get the best out of players. We're utterly dreadful at the moment, both in terms of attractiveness and getting results

 

[a spur from swansea]

Got the same feeling as i did when i went up to see Poch last game against Sheff Utd, if he didn't win or the team gave an outstanding performance he be gone by Monday, he was, I think the West Ham game will be either be Jose last game as our manager if he loses or we'll have a new manager in charge by then. I think Levy will give him the next four games to see if he can turn things around, league, cup, league, and a cup game ,all the bearing where we heading in the last 3/4 months of the season. If we are still poor or get knocked out in those games Levy will pull the plug.

Not into shortism but the way things are and how Levy operates i don't think he will want to sit next to the dildo brothers and them gloating over him at the West Ham game with Spurs having nothing to play for even though we got a cup final to play in April. By then we could be 12th and next year the winners are not in the Europa League but the new Euro comp UEFA they've got going, basically its the Papa John trophy for all the European minnows!!

 

[StephenH]

What does that tell you?

At the top level small percentages make big differences and if you aren't all pulling in the same direction then that will have an effect. I don't really think players down-tools, it's just when things aren't working from the top down it manifests itself in the type of lacklustre performances we're seeing now.

You would think this is right up “special ones” ally. Sadly times have moved on.