Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[DeanoAustin]

Most sports professionals, regardless of the sport, reach a point where they have peaked performance-wise and are on their way down. The question then is, what is the general trend re the rate of decline? Roger Federer, for example, gently sloping decline. Mike Tyson, slightly steeper, with occasional minor rebounds. I worry that Mourinho is currently falling off the mountain .. without a rope.

Its not a proper comparison. Tyson’s and Federer’s careers were always destined to decline because they rely on being in their 20s or 30s to be at their physical peak. Jose doesn’t have that problem. His job is reliant on his brain and his ability to motivate which don’t decline at his age. Look at Ferguson, still winning leagues in his 70s. Look at Roy Hodgson.

I don’t buy this “yesterday’s man” narrative as if football has changed beyond recognition over the last few years and now Jose is suddenly not able to compete. He needs time and some sort of resources because he’s got a sack of brick (defensively) at the moment. I’ll make up my mind about him at Spurs at the end of next season. He deserves that much time at least.

On the conversation re Dier, I’m no fan of his but he was our best player in the 2-3 games pre lockdown and has been our best player since. He’s not a DM but there is a centre back in there in my view.

 

[AdamB]

I was going to start a new thread but thought it slightly, though not hugely, premature.

Clubs often swing to the opposite extreme when appointing managers, so in theory we should go for a Poch-style up and coming manager. If thats the case then Eddie Howe is a shoe-in based on these odds:

https://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/tottenham/next-permanent-manager

In terms of other younger managers, we won't get Nagelsmann....Espirito Santo @ Wolves could be a decent shout given what he's done there. Not sure who else there is on this list.....

In terms of experienced guys, Allegri is free and with a great track record, albeit at a huge club. There arent that many names which excite me though....

 

[ringo]

Its not a proper comparison. Tyson’s and Federer’s careers were always destined to decline because they rely on being in their 20s or 30s to be at their physical peak. Jose doesn’t have that problem. His job is reliant on his brain and his ability to motivate which don’t decline at his age. Look at Ferguson, still winning leagues in his 70s. Look at Roy Hodgson.

I don’t buy this “yesterday’s man” narrative as if football has changed beyond recognition over the last few years and now Jose is suddenly not able to compete. He needs time and some sort of resources because he’s got a sack of brick (defensively) at the moment. I’ll make up my mind about him at Spurs at the end of next season. He deserves that much time at least.

On the conversation re Dier, I’m no fan of his but he was our best player in the 2-3 games pre lockdown and has been our best player since. He’s not a DM but there is a centre back in there in my view.

An interesting point. Theoretically managers could and should adapt to the game as it changes. But I still think many managers fail to adapt and get stuck in a particular tactical mindset, especially if they have already had success with those methods. Mourinho just doesn't seem that tactically astute, I'm not convinced about his judgement of players, and he doesn't seem that bothered.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm pretty sure Levy has accounted for the fact that by appointing Mourinho he would need to back him for the first couple of windows at least. If this window is a failure, or Jose's signings flop next season then thats when Levy might be sweating.

To your point, when I mentioned that Mourinho had said in passing Bergwijn wasn't his first choice signing, it was seen as a slight on the player. I maintain it was a very subtle, early shot off the bow to let people know that he, Jose Mourinho, did not get his first choice. And that if he continues to not get his first choice, he will use it as leverage.

 

[thfcsteff]

And then the pandemic happened and the world changed.

I would love to know who Mourinho's "first choice" was in January? Because he should've got him/them. Perhaps he could've worked a miracle and got us CL and top 4 with such a signing? He was also very unlucky with Kane, but we had a window to seal a replacement, flirted heavily with a CF whose name I forget and in the end did not get one.

I am aware that many (not necessarily you) don't read my posts in great detail, preferring to simply extrapolate the (obvious) fact that I don't like Mourinho, but I have consistently said that IF we have him, we MUST back him as HE needs to be backed. It would "appear" he has already NOT been backed at a critical moment of our season (who knows, maybe this Amazon Spurs porno filth will reveal the truth) and if that is the case, then I feel a certain degree of sympathy for him (even though I still dislike GREATLY how he handles himself in the press)...I do agree that no-one could've foreseen covid19.

 

[Benny_Lad]

To your point, when I mentioned that Mourinho had said in passing Bergwijn wasn't his first choice signing, it was seen as a slight on the player. I maintain it was a very subtle, early shot off the bow to let people know that he, Jose Mourinho, did not get his first choice. And that if he continues to not get his first choice, he will use it as leverage.

Classic Jose. Deflection.

He stopped short of saying it was the clubs fault, maybe his first choice didn’t want to come to Spurs.

My guess would be Bruno. 25 year old for 50/60m, or 22 year old for 20m. They look like different players at the moment but Bruno does a lot of work iff the right for Portugal. Him, Dele, and Son behind Kane would have been similar to Eriksen, Dele and Son.

I’m not anti Stevie btw. Just pondering that first choice comment.

If it was a case of the club not playing ball on his first choice, I think it’s pretty early (and worrying) for him to be going into excuse mode.

 

[Benny_Lad]

I was going to start a new thread but thought it slightly, though not hugely, premature.

Clubs often swing to the opposite extreme when appointing managers, so in theory we should go for a Poch-style up and coming manager. If thats the case then Eddie Howe is a shoe-in based on these odds:

https://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/tottenham/next-permanent-manager

In terms of other younger managers, we won't get Nagelsmann....Espirito Santo @ Wolves could be a decent shout given what he's done there. Not sure who else there is on this list.....

In terms of experienced guys, Allegri is free and with a great track record, albeit at a huge club. There arent that many names which excite me though....

I really don’t think the quick fix is on the table for us. 1. We look a fair way off. 2 We probably don’t have the money for a quick fix.

Therefore, it is probably pointless going for a manager that will attract the big names, and probably far more likely we will revert to a project style manager.

Id take Nagelsmann over Howe. Admittedly it would be unfair to judge Howe on the last 2 seasons but Nagelsmann is in form (if that’s a thing for managers) and would also be able to tap into the German youth setup.

I believe Nagelsmann is also 2 from 2. Getting an above par output from both squads he’s worked with.

The other person you could say that for is Rodgers. Took Liverpool very close to the PL with a far worse squad than they currently have, performed well with Swansea initially and has now taken Leicester up the table fairly quickly.

We could quite conceivably end up with Poch. If we go on to sign another 4 or 5 young players over the next 2 windows and lose a bit more of the old guard, then that would give Poch 9 or 10 new faces (including the current new 5 he barely worked with) to pick up where he probably wanted to - and he could then add a further few himself.

 

[Dicko]

I think its too early to ponder whether he was backed or not. Let's wait and see after this next window. It could be that he named a couple of targets and for whatever reason the clubs were not selling in January. Giroud is one example, rumour is the loan was all done then Frank pulled the plug in the last day or so, leaving Giroud tinkled off because he wanted some playing time before the Euros. I'm not saying Giroud would be his 1st choice in the summer but its known that with Kane missing he wanted him in January.
This summer window might be more difficult than a normal one but still, the potential to bring in (and shift unwanted players) is far easier than in January.

 

[AdamB]

I really don’t think the quick fix is on the table for us. 1. We look a fair way off. 2 We probably don’t have the money for a quick fix.

Therefore, it is probably pointless going for a manager that will attract the big names, and probably far more likely we will revert to a project style manager.

Id take Nagelsmann over Howe. Admittedly it would be unfair to judge Howe on the last 2 seasons but Nagelsmann is in form (if that’s a thing for managers) and would also be able to tap into the German youth setup.

I believe Nagelsmann is also 2 from 2. Getting an above par output from both squads he’s worked with.

The other person you could say that for is Rodgers. Took Liverpool very close to the PL with a far worse squad than they currently have, performed well with Swansea initially and has now taken Leicester up the table fairly quickly.

We could quite conceivably end up with Poch. If we go on to sign another 4 or 5 young players over the next 2 windows and lose a bit more of the old guard, then that would give Poch 9 or 10 new faces (including the current new 5 he barely worked with) to pick up where he probably wanted to - and he could then add a further few himself.

Agree about Nagelsmann however I’d question whether he’d leave Leipzig for us. I also like Rodgers for the reasons you mention and he plays decent football - there’s lots on here who don’t like him though but am not sure why.

would be very odd if we went back to Poch! Don’t see that happening

 

[Baleforce]

To your point, when I mentioned that Mourinho had said in passing Bergwijn wasn't his first choice signing, it was seen as a slight on the player. I maintain it was a very subtle, early shot off the bow to let people know that he, Jose Mourinho, did not get his first choice. And that if he continues to not get his first choice, he will use it as leverage.

First choice for wide forward, would have been Messi right, which is why we moved down the list.

I like that he’ll try everything he can to get what he wants, I want him to push for absolutely everything, and I want Levy to keep him to what we can afford, that’s the sweet spot.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

To your point, when I mentioned that Mourinho had said in passing Bergwijn wasn't his first choice signing, it was seen as a slight on the player. I maintain it was a very subtle, early shot off the bow to let people know that he, Jose Mourinho, did not get his first choice. And that if he continues to not get his first choice, he will use it as leverage.

Jose is the head coach here too
Someone made a big deal out the title being coach for Poch once (@billyiddo i think)
So using the same logic I assume Jose has less say in transfers than maybe Poch did when Poch was manager
I do think the comments about Bergwein were two fold. 1 I don’t make the calls, 2 sometimes the recruitment team do recruit good players

 

[harr1984]

If you want to judge every manager on their first seven months, then the following managers should have been sacked.

Pep - Won nothing in his first season at City, despite having an already successful team with 100 million pound investment in the likes of Sterling and De Bruyne.

Klopp - Ended his first season 8th place, which was a very average team.

Poch - Didn't achieve much in his first season. Won nothing in his past six years.

Ole - In his first seven months, despite walking in the club and saying "Football is easy when you have good players" has spent 190 million replenishing the team Mourinho got to second place and has only taken them from 8th to 5th. Yet people praise the progress he has made.

In his last managerial position, Mourinho got United in five finals, winning three and came second. All this in two and a half seasons.

Yet obviously Mourinho is past it right.....

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

If you want to judge every manager on their first seven months, then the following managers should have been sacked.

Pep - Won nothing in his first season at City, despite having an already successful team with 100 million pound investment in the likes of Sterling and De Bruyne.

Klopp - Ended his first season 8th place, which was a very average team.

Poch - Didn't achieve much in his first season. Won nothing in his past six years.

Ole - In his first seven months, despite walking in the club and saying "Football is easy when you have good players" has spent 190 million replenishing the team Mourinho got to second place and has only taken them from 8th to 5th. Yet people praise the progress he has made.

In his last managerial position, Mourinho got United in five finals, winning three and came second. All this in two and a half seasons.

Yet obviously Mourinho is past it right.....

I think that is the objective way to look at it.

some have dislike for Jose (and thats ok, i can see how they would ) so will jump on him as soon as things look/go bad

For me? I think he's ok, probably indifferent is a better word, the one thing that's nagging me though is i just have a strong sense of how this is all going to finish.

 

[thfcsteff]

First choice for wide forward, would have been Messi right, which is why we moved down the list.

I like that he’ll try everything he can to get what he wants, I want him to push for absolutely everything, and I want Levy to keep him to what we can afford, that’s the sweet spot.

I don't disagree. On digital paper that is all correct. But I don't see that playing out. Happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If you want to judge every manager on their first seven months, then the following managers should have been sacked.

Pep - Won nothing in his first season at City, despite having an already successful team with 100 million pound investment in the likes of Sterling and De Bruyne.

Klopp - Ended his first season 8th place, which was a very average team.

Poch - Didn't achieve much in his first season. Won nothing in his past six years.

Ole - In his first seven months, despite walking in the club and saying "Football is easy when you have good players" has spent 190 million replenishing the team Mourinho got to second place and has only taken them from 8th to 5th. Yet people praise the progress he has made.

In his last managerial position, Mourinho got United in five finals, winning three and came second. All this in two and a half seasons.

Yet obviously Mourinho is past it right.....

Poch at Spurs? First season 5th, after 6th the season before. All you want is the manager to improve on the last one.

 

[harr1984]

I think that is the objective way to look at it.

some have dislike for Jose (and thats ok, i can see how they would ) so will jump on him as soon as things look/go bad

For me? I think he's ok, probably indifferent is a better word, the one thing that's nagging me though is i just have a strong sense of how this is all going to finish.

He wouldn’t of been my first choice, but as it became clear we were seriously in for him I thought are we really in a position where where can turn down one of the most successful managers in the history of the game? I had written off this season as soon as we got rid of Poch, there is massive issues with this squad that no manager would be able to change at the flick of a switch. I’m just looking to see after a proper pre season and perhaps a few more recruits Jose wants what he can do. All I want to see is some better structure defensively, and to get N’Dombele and Lo Celso playing together somehow. If we can achieve those two things then I’ve no doubt we will be back up there in the top 4 again. Next season is the time to begin judging for me....

 

[Pirate55]

Jose is the head coach here too
Someone made a big deal out the title being coach for Poch once (@billyiddo i think)
So using the same logic I assume Jose has less say in transfers than maybe Poch did when Poch was manager
I do think the comments about Bergwein were two fold. 1 I don’t make the calls, 2 sometimes the recruitment team do recruit good players

Furthermore, I suspect his first choice was a positional comment, not directed at Bergy. I think he was desperate to bring in a rampaging, warrior like CF. Giroud or Igano ( ?sp) would have been perfect short term fixes enabling us to play "the Jose way". Why we didn't get anyone in that position is mystifying to me.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

He wouldn’t of been my first choice, but as it became clear we were seriously in for him I thought are we really in a position where where can turn down one of the most successful managers in the history of the game? I had written off this season as soon as we got rid of Poch, there is massive issues with this squad that no manager would be able to change at the flick of a switch. I’m just looking to see after a proper pre season and perhaps a few more recruits Jose wants what he can do. All I want to see is some better structure defensively, and to get N’Dombele and Lo Celso playing together somehow. If we can achieve those two things then I’ve no doubt we will be back up there in the top 4 again. Next season is the time to begin judging for me....

I agree...he was available and instantly appoint-able. But i'm sure Levy would have been thinking that there was still something that could be saved from this season, a big name manager and a new manager bounce, a manager that demands to be listened to and respected. Of course injuries are probably a genuine excuse for the results to be trickier to achieve.

The knock-on problem from where it looks likely we will now finish and the financial impact of Covid is the compatability profile of this manager now looks poor.

 

[fernadez]

Nagelsmann to City is a open secret when Pep leaves.

Just like some players are ofout of our league so are some manages, new stadium or not, we're not the managerial catch we were 3 or so years ago.

 

[glasgowspur]

Dear lord don’t be so dramatic. Falling off the mountain without a rope? Was this massive decline of his in his last job when he won more trophies at that club than we have won for the past twenty years plus? Or was it since taking over us and only lifting us 7 or so places in the league from where we were at the time he was appointed? This was never going to be an overnight fix, and things change quickly in football. Arsenal were a laughing stock a couple of weeks ago, now they’re flying. Let’s see what next season brings....

Jose was very smart at utd, targeted trophies he knew they could win and did enough in the league to keep them in CL places.
I wish we were smart enough to have done that.
Instead of incremental gains over 5 years we went all out for the two biggest and hardest to win trophies in football.
With an inexperienced manager and team, relatively no money and in the middle of a stadium rebuild requiring no home games.
If he can do the same with us next season I'd be over the moon.