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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Bedfordspurs said:
But then he is also a much bette coach and tactician than anyone gives him credit for
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Agreed. I think the whole chequebook manager thing gets overblown with him. I also don't buy that football has passed him by in the tactical sense. I'd have confidence in him from that point of view. My biggest fear with Jose is his man management style. He digs players out in public and I'm not sure that works anymore. He practically bullied Luke Shaw at United. That said, a lot of players (including ours) have said his man management skills are top class.

Jury is still out for me. He needs and deserves a proper shot at this including the chance to bring in some players that suit his tactics (never in a million years is Winks/Lo Celso the type of central midfielder Jose will play while the error riddled back 4 are the antithesis of a Mourinho team). It's been pretty grim so far but I'm still optimistic that he can win some trophies here.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Agreed. I think the whole chequebook manager thing gets overblown with him. I also don't buy that football has passed him by in the tactical sense. I'd have confidence in him from that point of view. My biggest fear with Jose is his man management style. He digs players out in public and I'm not sure that works anymore. He practically bullied Luke Shaw at United. That said, a lot of players (including ours) have said his man management skills are top class.

Jury is still out for me. He needs and deserves a proper shot at this including the chance to bring in some players that suit his tactics (never in a million years is Winks/Lo Celso the type of central midfielder Jose will play while the error riddled back 4 are the antithesis of a Mourinho team). It's been pretty grim so far but I'm still optimistic that he can win some trophies here.
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He “bullied” luke shaw and the guy still isn’t very good
 
He was a cheque book manager, his Inter time wasn’t one of zero outlay like being made out. If you look at the team he put together it was huge outlay at the time.

His time at United was soured because he sulked about transfers, regardless of the rights and wrongs the public nature of his sulking was borderline embarrassing.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again and it’s only my opinion. You don’t pay a manager top top money to only sit in an office and moan about the squad, he has to be able to coach some improvement into the players he has, for me I don’t see that improvement.

We concede far too much possession at home against poor sides and do nothing to turn that into any kind of playing on break to justify the tactic.

The jury is out
 
Grays_1890 said:
He was a cheque book manager, his Inter time wasn’t one of zero outlay like being made out. If you look at the team he put together it was huge outlay at the time.

His time at United was soured because he sulked about transfers, regardless of the rights and wrongs the public nature of his sulking was borderline embarrassing.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again and it’s only my opinion. You don’t pay a manager top top money to only sit in an office and moan about the squad, he has to be able to coach some improvement into the players he has, for me I don’t see that improvement.

We concede far too much possession at home against poor sides and do nothing to turn that into any kind of playing on break to justify the tactic.

The jury is out
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Correct me if I'm wrong but at Inter, he about broke even on transfers and never really spent a lot on a single player. Granted Zlatan brought in 69m but at the same time, he spent nothing like that on any player himself and took them to the treble. At Porto, I'm not sure he spent a lot and took them to all sorts of silverware including the CL.

I agree, the football is eye-gougingly bad at the moment but in his short time here, Aurier has improved (even if he's still muck), Dier has played some of his best games in years, Lo Celso has come on and Tanganga has looked a player. Without wishing to go through all his clubs, at Chelsea he played a massive role in developing Terry, Lampard, Essien and Drogba amongst others.

He's had the benefit of transfer funds but so has Pep and so has Klopp as two examples. Liverpool looked like an Ossie Ardiles team until they spunked £70m on a keeper and £75m on VVD.
 
Grays_1890 said:
He was a cheque book manager, his Inter time wasn’t one of zero outlay like being made out. If you look at the team he put together it was huge outlay at the time.

His time at United was soured because he sulked about transfers, regardless of the rights and wrongs the public nature of his sulking was borderline embarrassing.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again and it’s only my opinion. You don’t pay a manager top top money to only sit in an office and moan about the squad, he has to be able to coach some improvement into the players he has, for me I don’t see that improvement.

We concede far too much possession at home against poor sides and do nothing to turn that into any kind of playing on break to justify the tactic.

The jury is out
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When was you expecting this big improvement in players to take place? During the turmoil her originally took over? Or when he suffered a ridiculous amount of injuries to crucial players after a couple of months? Or during a couple of weeks of social distanced training and one practice match we were all of a sudden going to see a new team?
The chequebook thing is a load of nonsense, the top managers get paid the big bucks and get given large budgets at the biggest clubs to deliver - it’s nothing new. Pep, Klopp all the same. He is a top coach, obviously he won’t have the funds he’s used to so will be interesting but he has plenty to work with and he is happy with the majority otherwise he wouldn’t of taken the job in the first place.

Give him a proper pre season and let’s see what next season looks like....
 
harr1984 said:
When was you expecting this big improvement in players to take place? During the turmoil her originally took over? Or when he suffered a ridiculous amount of injuries to crucial players after a couple of months? Or during a couple of weeks of social distanced training and one practice match we were all of a sudden going to see a new team?
The chequebook thing is a load of nonsense, the top managers get paid the big bucks and get given large budgets at the biggest clubs to deliver - it’s nothing new. Pep, Klopp all the same. He is a top coach, obviously he won’t have the funds he’s used to so will be interesting but he has plenty to work with and he is happy with the majority otherwise he wouldn’t of taken the job in the first place.

Give him a proper pre season and let’s see what next season looks like....
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And add in a few players of his choice (cue the cry we can’t afford any) too

someone said in the match thread that I’d we don’t play Ndombele then his career here is finished... I mean that’s how short term we’re getting now. And Mou is meant to have fixed him during the COVID break too
 
harr1984 said:
When was you expecting this big improvement in players to take place? During the turmoil her originally took over? Or when he suffered a ridiculous amount of injuries to crucial players after a couple of months? Or during a couple of weeks of social distanced training and one practice match we were all of a sudden going to see a new team?
The chequebook thing is a load of nonsense, the top managers get paid the big bucks and get given large budgets at the biggest clubs to deliver - it’s nothing new. Pep, Klopp all the same. He is a top coach, obviously he won’t have the funds he’s used to so will be interesting but he has plenty to work with and he is happy with the majority otherwise he wouldn’t of taken the job in the first place.

Give him a proper pre season and let’s see what next season looks like....
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Good managers go to a club and create a spike, you can see that even if it is just a temporary show of upturn in form or some initial blood and thunder performances.

I haven’t seen that and I’m having this isn’t his team or injuries. We have played some terrible teams at home and away and the style is dreadful, I’m not expecting the world but for him to be this magnificent manager who isn’t a cheque book manager I expect more.

It’s par for the 15m a year Mourinho course unfortunately.

I make no apologies for expecting slightly more than going out the cup to crap like Norwich
 
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Grays_1890 said:
Good managers go to a club and get create a spike, you can see that even if it is just a temporary show of upturn in form or some initial blood and thunder performances.

I haven’t seen that and I’m having this isn’t his team or injuries. We have played some terrible teams at home and away and the style is dreadful, I’m not expecting the world but for him to be this magnificent manager who isn’t a cheque book manager I expect more.

It’s par for the 15m a year Mourinho course unfortunately.

I make no apologies for expecting slightly more than going out the cup to crap like Norwich
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It's a fair point. The FA Cup games against Norwich and Southampton were bloody awful and we should look dominant against that level of opposition.

I'd still give Jose time though. We did get a bit of a bounce when he came in but it wasn't the type of bounce I'd have expected. Mourinho teams are built on defensive solidity and we were winning in 5 and 6 goal games. I think he'll get it right with time and with players who suit his game or a pre-season to get his ideas across to these players.

Time will tell if your theory or my theory is right I guess.
 
DeanoAustin said:
It's a fair point. The FA Cup games against Norwich and Southampton were bloody awful and we should look dominant against that level of opposition.

I'd still give Jose time though. We did get a bit of a bounce when he came in but it wasn't the type of bounce I'd have expected. Mourinho teams are built on defensive solidity and we were winning in 5 and 6 goal games. I think he'll get it right with time and with players who suit his game or a pre-season to get his ideas across to these players.

Time will tell if your theory or my theory is right I guess.
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He also was missing a lot of key players for those two games in key roles
 
Bedfordspurs said:
And add in a few players of his choice (cue the cry we can’t afford any) too

someone said in the match thread that I’d we don’t play Ndombele then his career here is finished... I mean that’s how short term we’re getting now. And Mou is meant to have fixed him during the COVID break too
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Never used it but the wife raves about zoom.





;) if Mourinho had anything about him he could have fixed Ndombele and cured cancer. Just plain lazy now.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Good managers go to a club and create a spike, you can see that even if it is just a temporary show of upturn in form or some initial blood and thunder performances.

I haven’t seen that and I’m having this isn’t his team or injuries. We have played some terrible teams at home and away and the style is dreadful, I’m not expecting the world but for him to be this magnificent manager who isn’t a cheque book manager I expect more.

It’s par for the 15m a year Mourinho course unfortunately.

I make no apologies for expecting slightly more than going out the cup to crap like Norwich
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I don't think manager changes create a spike, they tend to create a reversion to the mean for the squad (this is heavily researched and has been recorded in either the numbers game or why England lose, can't remember which)

as I said yesterday, since he took over we are 2nd or 3rd in the PL form table

I can barely remember it, it seems like years ago, but my perception is that we were by far the better team against Norwich and were undone by an individual error
 
galeforce said:
I don't think manager changes create a spike, they tend to create a reversion to the mean for the squad (this is heavily researched and has been recorded in either the numbers game or why England lose, can't remember which)

as I said yesterday, since he took over we are 2nd or 3rd in the PL form table

I can barely remember it, it seems like years ago, but my perception is that we were by far the better team against Norwich and were undone by an individual error
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Which is true ish
We were better than Norwich but it wasn’t huge (same as the league games), but it was a horrible keeper error that cost us
 
thfcsteff said:
I still think the biggest weakness is the manager.
If we were replacing Poch I'd have wanted Ancelotti. Everton are crisp, organized and ply some good football whilst remaining solid. I think he'd have done a great job with us personally.

Still, we are where we are so onwards!
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Yeah but he wasn’t available and also he is a really short term manager too (look at his record for staying at clubs)
To me José has a point to prove here and should be given real time
 
galeforce said:
I think we were massively underachieving in the last year under MP.

Since Jose has taken over, Lloris has made fewer mistakes, likewise Toby and Aurier, Winks has got better, Alli has got better, Dier has got half way back to his best, Sanchez looks more like the player he was when we signed him.

Also, the two new signings we’ve made under Jose have had an instant impact, Bergwijn has been particularly impressive.
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That, for the record, is where it falls apart for me. He spent two years asking for steady changes and he spent his last full season playing home matches across three stadiums during huge injury crisis yet we still got to the CL Final somehow. IMO we over-achieved and failed to fully understand that.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I think 5 years will have to pass before memories of the Poch era are what they should be, fond memories.

A lot of people will say we never won anything but i will remember amazing football and going undefeated at home in our last season. Of course that night against Ajax.
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Very fair comment. I know I am almost queeny about Poch, and need to do better really because flouncing around with my knickers in a twist won't bring him back. Still, I am who I am, a flouncy knicker boy at times, so if you'd just pour three jugs of custard over me before the West Ham game I might JUST be ready to
move on (confession, I still watch 95+1 and shed a tear once every couple of months).
 
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