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ITK

Raziel said:
Actually mate (and not having a go at you), the club is not for sale .. and may never have been, does that mean that if someone came along and offered 2B for it, Levy/Lewis/ENIC would not have to consider the offer? = no

However

- The club has been owned by ENIC now for over 14 years, the idea of this quick buck turnover has been proven wrong 5 or 6 years ago
- The best time for selling the club would have been after qualifying for CL with Bale as the star name (or the year of the CL run itself)

Additionally

- The entire scale and nature of the WHL redevelopment makes no sense if the idea was to make a sale
- Every dollar spent would cut into profits, yet there is absolutely no indication or even area where you can say the club is cutting corners. Logical view would have been a 48/50K increase for 150 odd million, then sell, not 450M with complete area redevelopment.
- Delisting the company in hindsight was also a way for the club to make long term decisions, more control vs. more profitability

And not ITK, but I have talked to people involved, and there is absolutely no indication from people who work for/with the club on a daily basis that Levy has any view to selling, as a matter of fact, they talk about how Levy continues to monitor other stadiums (including non football ones) to make sure WHL has the best of everything (had a conversation on the Screens vs. the ones in new NFL stadiums), see point above.

Add in the fact that he brings his son to every game, not sure how people can't see we have a chairman that is heavily vested in our club
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I know you're not having a go. I think this is an interesting debate to have.

I do hope that you are right, but I don't think that you and I are too far away from our opinions. At this present moment in time, do I think Levy and Lewis are actively hawking the club around - no. Do I think that they will do when the stadium is built, NFL games have been played and successful, Spurs in the CL for more than one year on the trot with a world class striker from the youth academy - unfortunately yes but I would imagine that they would not have to actively court these bids but rather be more willing to listen. As soon as they signal an intention to sell, they've already lost some negotiating power!

I only base this on the fact that they are businessmen first and foremost, and that has come through in the way that Levy and Lewis have treated the club since they joined. Limited investment from them over and above the initial investment that they made, most of which was because they wanted to gain further control of the club, further points to this fact for me. Going against this is the fact that Levy has started to pay himself a commensurate salary as of a few years ago meaning that his return does not need to be as weighted on any sale of the club. Also, as you say, ENIC have owned the club for over 14 years paying themselves limited dividends in the process. So it was hardly a short term investment.

As for the best time to sell the club, there are just so many factors to consider, namely:

1. EPL rights have beaten pretty much every expectation, and they have come round often enough to change a long-term plan. If they keep on rocketing up, then the best time to sell would be when this stops growing;
2. Consistent Champions League qualification - It is so hard to get consistent qualification for the champions league, that I think this would be a differentiator for any potential owner. How much would it cost to get a club consistently challenging for the CL, and that would probably be the premium on the acquisition of such a club that did have consistent qualification;
3. Stadium - To have one of the biggest stadiums in the league, with associated naming rights and strong fan base ensures a revenue stream. Having one of the best, based in London would attract a premium;
4. Facilities - To have one of the best facilities and one of the best academies in the league would also attract a premium;
5. Squad - To have one of the cheapest assembled but most valuable squads with at least one or two international superstars would also be a differentiator; and
6. Fanbase - Does the club have a large fanbase that is truly global? If so, then that would attract a premium.

We don't have all of the above as yet, and I would say that it is mainly #1 and #3 that has stopped ENIC from selling up. #1 is not in their control per se and they will have first sniff of any knowledge that the rights are not growing, but #3 is. They initially started on that a long time ago and a lot of the delay was outside of their control. They have completed #4, have a transfer strategy focused on #5, worked incredibly hard on #6 and with #3-#6, #2 becomes easier (not easy) to achieve. #1 will have the biggest bearing. Would Sugar have sold at the price he did, despite the fact that he was personally abused, had he known just how much the rights would increase year on year, I'm not so sure. He made a handsome profit on his investment bought at £3m but underwriting £11m of loan (this is what I remember so could be wrong) and sold a controlling stake for £47m. Ashley bought a controlling stake in Saudi Sportswashing Machine for £55m in 2007. Liverpool sold for £300m in 2010.

Do I want them to go - Absolutely not. It won't come as a surprise to many to hear that I am a big Levy fan and I think the club has been run incredibly well considering the external factors that have affected us. You only have to look at the league finishes that we had under Sugar (never in the top 6) and see where we are now to see that Levy and ENIC have been very good for the club. I just think when #1 through #6 are in place, they will sell. That would probably be 20 years of ownership and would probably represent a time for them to just think hand it over to someone else.
 
Raziel said:
Actually mate (and not having a go at you), the club is not for sale .. and may never have been, does that mean that if someone came along and offered 2B for it, Levy/Lewis/ENIC would not have to consider the offer? = no

However

- The club has been owned by ENIC now for over 14 years, the idea of this quick buck turnover has been proven wrong 5 or 6 years ago
- The best time for selling the club would have been after qualifying for CL with Bale as the star name (or the year of the CL run itself)

Additionally

- The entire scale and nature of the WHL redevelopment makes no sense if the idea was to make a sale
- Every dollar spent would cut into profits, yet there is absolutely no indication or even area where you can say the club is cutting corners. Logical view would have been a 48/50K increase for 150 odd million, then sell, not 450M with complete area redevelopment.
- Delisting the company in hindsight was also a way for the club to make long term decisions, more control vs. more profitability

And not ITK, but I have talked to people involved, and there is absolutely no indication from people who work for/with the club on a daily basis that Levy has any view to selling, as a matter of fact, they talk about how Levy continues to monitor other stadiums (including non football ones) to make sure WHL has the best of everything (had a conversation on the Screens vs. the ones in new NFL stadiums), see point above.

Add in the fact that he brings his son to every game, not sure how people can't see we have a chairman that is heavily vested in our club
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I disagree and think that @Gazzasrightboot is right. The club has always been for sale if someone offered the right price.

Selling when we qualified for the Champions League and had Bale would not have maximised their return on their investment. Maximising their return is dependent on having a sustainable long term model, hence the investment in the youth set up and training facilities. Building the stadium will not affect this as it is investing in an asset that will increase the long term profitability and value of the club.

I read this article recently and thought it interesting

http://www.theguardian.com/football...e-clubs-crystal-palace-bournemouth?INTCMP=sfl
 
milo said:
I disagree and think that @Gazzasrightboot is right. The club has always been for sale if someone offered the right price.

Selling when we qualified for the Champions League and had Bale would not have maximised their return on their investment. Maximising their return is dependent on having a sustainable long term model, hence the investment in the youth set up and training facilities. Building the stadium will not affect this as it is investing in an asset that will increase the long term profitability and value of the club.

I read this article recently and thought it interesting

http://www.theguardian.com/football...e-clubs-crystal-palace-bournemouth?INTCMP=sfl
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Surely the only time a prudent investor would sell would be when they think that they can't gain any advantage from keeping and working their investment, or that the sale price exceeds that advantage?
Do you think that ENIC are prudent investors?
If so, what is it in Tottenham Hotspur's potential that you think in their view has already run, or is about to stop running, its most profitable course?
If ENIC did not own Tottenham Hotspur today, do you think, with their experience and expertise in the industry, they would be interested in acquiring it? If not, why not?
If you think they would be interested in those circumstances, why would they sell it now when they already own it?
The idea that "because they are businessmen" ENIC are always on the lookout for a sale, seems to me to be a fundamentally flawed notion, which I have been arguing against since 2001. They are an investment company, not a trading company.
In my view, they might be persuaded to sell if they are offered silly money (wouldn't we all?), or see major problems on the horizon which they they think are not worth their effort in solving, but unless either of those situations occurs, and any takeover offer would have to be by someone who either has some brilliant idea for more working of the assets that hasn't occured to ENIC (if so: what?) or the potential purchasers are not as good businessmen as ENIC (which we should all be concerned about in my view) then surely ENIC would retain enough confidence in its own abilities to achieve a maximised return (currently by consistent participation in the CL, without breaking the bank on players) to say "Thanks, but no thanks".
Why sell when they are within touching distance of what is currently a pot of gold?
The article you have highlighted seems to me to be about a change in investor attitudes to Football Clubs, whereby prudent investors are less likely to seek control of a club and more likely to take a minority shareholding, where they think that the current management can make a better return using the extra funds they can provide.
This is exactly what ENIC were looking for (according to ENIC) when Cain Hoy were indulging in their charade. Cain Hoy, you will recall, were given short shrift. There was no "Let's talk about it", merely " We are not interested, and you are breaking Stock Exchange rules if you don't formalize your intentions." Cain Hoy withdrew within a fortnight.
 
LesMedley said:
Surely the only time a prudent investor would sell would be when they think that they can't gain any advantage from keeping and working their investment, or that the sale price exceeds that advantage?
Do you think that ENIC are prudent investors?
If so, what is it in Tottenham Hotspur's potential that you think in their view has already run, or is about to stop running, its most profitable course?
If ENIC did not own Tottenham Hotspur today, do you think, with their experience and expertise in the industry, they would be interested in acquiring it? If not, why not?
If you think they would be interested in those circumstances, why would they sell it now when they already own it?
The idea that "because they are businessmen" ENIC are always on the lookout for a sale, seems to me to be a fundamentally flawed notion, which I have been arguing against since 2001. They are an investment company, not a trading company.
In my view, they might be persuaded to sell if they are offered silly money (wouldn't we all?), or see major problems on the horizon which they they think are not worth their effort in solving, but unless either of those situations occurs, and any takeover offer would have to be by someone who either has some brilliant idea for more working of the assets that hasn't occured to ENIC (if so: what?) or the potential purchasers are not as good businessmen as ENIC (which we should all be concerned about in my view) then surely ENIC would retain enough confidence in its own abilities to achieve a maximised return (currently by consistent participation in the CL, without breaking the bank on players) to say "Thanks, but no thanks".
Why sell when they are within touching distance of what is currently a pot of gold?
The article you have highlighted seems to me to be about a change in investor attitudes to Football Clubs, whereby prudent investors are less likely to seek control of a club and more likely to take a minority shareholding, where they think that the current management can make a better return using the extra funds they can provide.
This is exactly what ENIC were looking for (according to ENIC) when Cain Hoy were indulging in their charade. Cain Hoy, you will recall, were given short shrift. There was no "Let's talk about it", merely " We are not interested, and you are breaking Stock Exchange rules if you don't formalize your intentions." Cain Hoy withdrew within a fortnight.
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ENIC are not taking money out of the club, so they only return on their investment that they will see is when they sell the club. Like GRB said, I do not think that they are actively hawking the club and I agree that they would probably only accept a silly offer. The one factor we haven't discussed is the impact that increasing TV revenue has on the decision. I would imagine that their valuations are based on that continuing to increase.
 
I have been reading for years that the only thing that Levy, Lewis and ENIC are interested in is selling up and making a huge profit, well 14 years later they are still here and our club has come a long way under their hands. Does that mean they will never sell? no of course not but I do not/never have thought they are in it for the money.

It was a bat used to complain by those fans who had to moan about them ( they are only here to make a buck" " all the money goes on buying new yachts for Lewis" etc, etc.
 
parklane1 said:
I have been reading for years that the only thing that Levy, Lewis and ENIC are interested in is selling up and making a huge profit, well 14 years later they are still here and our club has come a long way under their hands. Does that mean they will never sell? no of course not but I do not/never have thought they are in it for the money.

It was a bat used to complain by those fans who had to moan about them ( they are only here to make a buck" " all the money goes on buying new yachts for Lewis" etc, etc.
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Out of interest @parklane1, what do you think was their motivation for buying the club?
 
Well they are spurs fans so perhaps they quite like owning the club and don't want to sell. Levy gets paid well, and presumably ENIC have fingers in other pies?
 
I could be wrong but after the stadium is built we will be pretty well set as a club. Not sure how much debt it will leave us with but I'd imagine some. Apart from the club having no debt there wouldn't be too much growth that we could easily make. Obviously there is the commercial side, sponsorship etc.., but that is linked to success in many ways and hard to really put a plan in place to grow that substantially as results/success on the pitch are not a certainty.
Therefore if they will sell I reckon it will be 2/3 years after the stadium is built and borrowed money is re-financed etc...
However if they don't want to lose the club but wanted to get some money out of it I could see them selling a stake maybe 10/20% I'd imagine they'd be able to get a reasonable amount for a 10/20% stake in the club.
I hope Levy stays personally, the club is well run under him, a few things haven't gone right on the football side over the years but you could always see the setup that he wanted but hasn't managed to put together for one reason or another. Although I feel he has his ideal setup now.
 
LesMedley said:
Surely the only time a prudent investor would sell would be when they think that they can't gain any advantage from keeping and working their investment, or that the sale price exceeds that advantage?
Do you think that ENIC are prudent investors? Yes I do.
If so, what is it in Tottenham Hotspur's potential that you think in their view has already run, or is about to stop running, its most profitable course? - That's the point. It is unfinished, and I would imagine that they will get off the train as and when the TV rights have stopped rising, stadium has completed and we are in CL regularly, or they receive an offer they cannot refuse in the interim.
If ENIC did not own Tottenham Hotspur today, do you think, with their experience and expertise in the industry, they would be interested in acquiring it? If not, why not? - That's a big if! If they didn't own Spurs, then they'd only have minority stakes in other european clubs outside of the EPL. The financial model of those clubs is completely different, and I would argue that their experience and expertise was not in football but in investment. They have learned on the job in owning Spurs. Would they be interested in owning Spurs now....possibly but it's a significantly more risky investment by virtue of initial price, and the percentage return would be lower now. I am purely speculating, but I would imagine that any owner now would want a steady income stream rather than a profit on exit.
If you think they would be interested in those circumstances, why would they sell it now when they already own it? - Because they have already secured a massive return. They would sell it now if they get an offer at their valuation. What valuation is this? Who knows!
The idea that "because they are businessmen" ENIC are always on the lookout for a sale, seems to me to be a fundamentally flawed notion, which I have been arguing against since 2001. They are an investment company, not a trading company.
In my view, they might be persuaded to sell if they are offered silly money (wouldn't we all?), or see major problems on the horizon which they they think are not worth their effort in solving, but unless either of those situations occurs, and any takeover offer would have to be by someone who either has some brilliant idea for more working of the assets that hasn't occured to ENIC (if so: what?) or the potential purchasers are not as good businessmen as ENIC (which we should all be concerned about in my view) then surely ENIC would retain enough confidence in its own abilities to achieve a maximised return (currently by consistent participation in the CL, without breaking the bank on players) to say "Thanks, but no thanks".
I don't think that it is fundamentally flawed. They are an investment company which means that they will want a return on any investment. They will have a value in mind at which they will sell. Another investor may have a different valuation of exactly the same asset because what they want is different i.e. steady income stream rather than capital appreciation. I don't understand what is fundamentally flawed, as essentially you and I are saying the same thing. They would sell if a suitable offer came in, but they're not actively looking to sell. Put another way, let's say their exit plan is to achieve a price of £1.5bn which they think will be achievable in 10 years. If someone offered £1bn -£1.3bn now would they take it? Most probably. Does this mean that any takeover would be done by someone who aren't as good them or by someone who has a brilliant idea that hasn't occurred to ENIC is not necessarily true either. It could be by an NFL franchise that are looking to make the first franchise to be based in London and have an affiliated soccer club. It could also be by a mega-rich spurs fan who just wants to see Spurs dominate and would bankroll a £5bn spending spree, just because he could. It could also be by another set of businessmen who believe they could run the club better than Levy and Lewis currently do. Quite difficult, but won't stop someone believing that they could. It could also be some owner of an electronics company who wants a bit of fame and thinks that running a football club is as easy as making brick computers.

Why sell when they are within touching distance of what is currently a pot of gold? Because they can get the majority of that pot of gold now.

The article you have highlighted seems to me to be about a change in investor attitudes to Football Clubs, whereby prudent investors are less likely to seek control of a club and more likely to take a minority shareholding, where they think that the current management can make a better return using the extra funds they can provide. - Yes potentially. Another alternative is that they believe the TV rights will increase a further 20% at the next round of negotiations and they want to get in now. Or they see a product where the revenue for the next 5-10 years is relatively certain, an established order has presented itself in terms of profitability and success, and they would rather put their money in this than invest in another tech startup, or other undervalued business.

This is exactly what ENIC were looking for (according to ENIC) when Cain Hoy were indulging in their charade. Cain Hoy, you will recall, were given short shrift. There was no "Let's talk about it", merely " We are not interested, and you are breaking Stock Exchange rules if you don't formalize your intentions." Cain Hoy withdrew within a fortnight. Fair point. They were probably told the price and Cain Hoy just walked away. Personally I am in two minds if Lewis and Levy would accept a minority investor. They could sell 10% and already make double on their initial investment. But, they will still need to do the lionshare of the work, and provide some of that return to someone else. [/QUOTE]
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edmonton: I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't sign anyone. Spoke to someone about what I thought the the safe topic of the obvious need for cover for Harry and even on this my expectations were clearly being managed.

hertyid replying to edmonton: Yeah agreed. Club does seem reluctant to rock the boat and Poch is genuinely happy with the squad he has. Young striker to support Kane does seem to be on the cards though. Townsend and Fazio bring in some cash too.
 
Jordinho said:
edmonton: I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't sign anyone. Spoke to someone about what I thought the the safe topic of the obvious need for cover for Harry and even on this my expectations were clearly being managed.

hertyid replying to edmonton: Yeah agreed. Club does seem reluctant to rock the boat and Poch is genuinely happy with the squad he has. Young striker to support Kane does seem to be on the cards though. Townsend and Fazio bring in some cash too.
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It's almost as if there were direct quotes from Poch in the Guardian this morning saying exactly that. It can't be that though.
 
milo said:
It's almost as if there were direct quotes from Poch in the Guardian this morning saying exactly that. It can't be that though.
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Not everything these guys post is meant to be taken as groundbreaking info, but it's certainly more believable than those talking about lists of names that they can't share.
 

"When we are in the CL regularly". I hope you're right, but we are not there yet.
"Because they could get the majority of that pot of gold now". How? When we don't have a new ground yet and are unlikely to get it for two years at the earliest, and we haven't been in the Champions League or its equivalent more than twice since it inception in the 1950's? Accessing that pot of gold is dependent on the current plans coming to fruition.
"They have learned on the job owning Spurs". True, but the company was set up in order to invest in, for the main part, football clubs, so it's more than possible that their expertise would have been built up with a different club, which would have been likely to have been to Tottenham's detriment.
"They will have a value in mind at which they will sell". Only if they plan to sell. When Pochettino was asked what price Harry Kane would be sold at, he replied that there is no price for his sale, just as ENIC turned down Cain Hoy out of hand. Their whole modus operandi has been to modernise and professionalize the infrastructure to enjoy the benefits of the improved and regularly improving performance of the asset. They are in an environment where the rewards for owners of Premier League Clubs are continuing to rise substantially each year, and there are prospects of even more substantial increases if regular Champions League football is achieved, which is not yet the position by any means. They are far more likely to sell, if they hit an obstacle to these increases in rewards and those increases look like they might stall, than if there is a possibility that their talents can make earning those extra rewards more likely. Your supposition appears to be that they have little confidence in their own ability and are looking for a way out.
Your supposition that a potential NFL franchisee might want an Association Football Club too is in my view wishful thinking. I'll indulge in some too. I suspect it is as likely that a potential NFL franchisee already owns an Association Football club and is named Lewis, if he feels that he can increase his rewards even further. Your idea of a Spurs-mad multi-billionaire who is happy to splash £5 billion on his dream is frankly away with the fairies. I don't doubt there are those who think they can run Tottenham better than ENIC, but they tend not to have much money to call on. The Alan Sugar scenario has been tested to destruction for everyone but him, and he got Tottenham on the cheap. That is unlikely to be the case again.
ENIC have made a good start on the exposure of the club to world-wide markets but it's only a start. If all ENIC's plans come to fruition, they would be foolish to give it up when most of the rewards are possible in the future. Why kill (or even sell) the goose that lays the golden eggs?
In my view the only thing which might change ENIC's approach to Tottenham, is Joe Lewis passing away (and he's in his eighties). If his heirs have different ideas, like giving their money away to "good causes" as seems to be en vogue at the moment, rather than continuing to generate wealth, then the excreta might disturb the air conditioning. Then Daniel Levy would have to use all his expertise to try to ensure that his position and the club (in that order) don't suffer.
As Harold Macmillan said: "Events, dear boy. Events."
 
Look at it from a prospective buyer's POV. Why would he want to buy when the price is at its highest?

I can see them selling a small stake, as has already been rumoured in connection with the stadium financing, to at least recoup their initial outlay, but the whole thing? Unlikely, especially uncle Joe's daughter is as keen a fan as has been suggested.
 
LesMedley said:
"When we are in the CL regularly". I hope you're right, but we are not there yet.
"Because they could get the majority of that pot of gold now". How? When we don't have a new ground yet and are unlikely to get it for two years at the earliest, and we haven't been in the Champions League or its equivalent more than twice since it inception in the 1950's? Accessing that pot of gold is dependent on the current plans coming to fruition.
"They have learned on the job owning Spurs". True, but the company was set up in order to invest in, for the main part, football clubs, so it's more than possible that their expertise would have been built up with a different club, which would have been likely to have been to Tottenham's detriment.
"They will have a value in mind at which they will sell". Only if they plan to sell. When Pochettino was asked what price Harry Kane would be sold at, he replied that there is no price for his sale, just as ENIC turned down Cain Hoy out of hand. Their whole modus operandi has been to modernise and professionalize the infrastructure to enjoy the benefits of the improved and regularly improving performance of the asset. They are in an environment where the rewards for owners of Premier League Clubs are continuing to rise substantially each year, and there are prospects of even more substantial increases if regular Champions League football is achieved, which is not yet the position by any means. They are far more likely to sell, if they hit an obstacle to these increases in rewards and those increases look like they might stall, than if there is a possibility that their talents can make earning those extra rewards more likely. Your supposition appears to be that they have little confidence in their own ability and are looking for a way out.
Your supposition that a potential NFL franchisee might want an Association Football Club too is in my view wishful thinking. I'll indulge in some too. I suspect it is as likely that a potential NFL franchisee already owns an Association Football club and is named Lewis, if he feels that he can increase his rewards even further. Your idea of a Spurs-mad multi-billionaire who is happy to splash £5 billion on his dream is frankly away with the fairies. I don't doubt there are those who think they can run Tottenham better than ENIC, but they tend not to have much money to call on. The Alan Sugar scenario has been tested to destruction for everyone but him, and he got Tottenham on the cheap. That is unlikely to be the case again.
ENIC have made a good start on the exposure of the club to world-wide markets but it's only a start. If all ENIC's plans come to fruition, they would be foolish to give it up when most of the rewards are possible in the future. Why kill (or even sell) the goose that lays the golden eggs?
In my view the only thing which might change ENIC's approach to Tottenham, is Joe Lewis passing away (and he's in his eighties). If his heirs have different ideas, like giving their money away to "good causes" as seems to be en vogue at the moment, rather than continuing to generate wealth, then the excreta might disturb the air conditioning. Then Daniel Levy would have to use all his expertise to try to ensure that his position and the club (in that order) don't suffer.
As Harold Macmillan said: "Events, dear boy. Events."
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I think you are misunderstanding my point. I'm saying that they would be prepared to sell, as they are an investment company but that the price would have to meet their valuation. All of the other points are suppositions on your and my part. In terms of my suppositions with regards to NFL franchisee etc.... that was all because you said there was only two scenarios whereby it would either have to be by someone who either has some brilliant idea for more working of the assets that hasn't occured to ENIC or the potential purchasers are not as good businessmen as ENIC (which we should all be concerned about in my view). I was saying that there are other options than just that two. There is always someone who will have enough money and gumption to think that they would do a better job. Yes some were fanciful, but no more fanciful than expecting a Sheikh or Oligarch to buy into the premiership however many years ago. Also it would be more difficult for ENIC to buy into the NFL than the other way around.

As I said, I believe they would be willing to sell but are not actively looking to sell. It would take a big offer, as you have said but that's only because I believe their end game is to sell. They will do so when they believe that they have achieved the maximum price unless someone was willing to pay that or close to that now. As you say, they are an investment company.
 
Jordinho said:
Look at it from a prospective buyer's POV. Why would he want to buy when the price is at its highest?

I can see them selling a small stake, as has already been rumoured in connection with the stadium financing, to at least recoup their initial outlay, but the whole thing? Unlikely, especially uncle Joe's daughter is as keen a fan as has been suggested.
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You're right, but what someone thinks the highest price is compared to another are not necessarily the same thing. i.e. Lewis and Levy may think £2bn is the most that the club will be worth and someone else may think £3bn. Valuations are just an estimate based on someone's assumptions and they're different more often than you would believe.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I think you are misunderstanding my point. I'm saying that they would be prepared to sell, as they are an investment company but that the price would have to meet their valuation. All of the other points are suppositions on your and my part. In terms of my suppositions with regards to NFL franchisee etc.... that was all because you said there was only two scenarios whereby it would either have to be by someone who either has some brilliant idea for more working of the assets that hasn't occured to ENIC or the potential purchasers are not as good businessmen as ENIC (which we should all be concerned about in my view). I was saying that there are other options than just that two. There is always someone who will have enough money and gumption to think that they would do a better job. Yes some were fanciful, but no more fanciful than expecting a Sheikh or Oligarch to buy into the premiership however many years ago. Also it would be more difficult for ENIC to buy into the NFL than the other way around.

As I said, I believe they would be willing to sell but are not actively looking to sell. It would take a big offer, as you have said but that's only because I believe their end game is to sell. They will do so when they believe that they have achieved the maximum price unless someone was willing to pay that or close to that now. As you say, they are an investment company.
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I believe they are not looking to sell and would continue to discourage approaches, as they have done already, unless circumstances change drastically for ENIC. You believe their end game is to sell, but they are not looking to sell (which seems remarkably like a contradiction to me). I don't believe they have an end game like that all, and they have provided no evidence of it, so far, unless you accept rumours from some of the self-proclaimed "ITK" mongers, as evidence. As an analogy, I have no intention of selling my house, and my end game is to die there, but if someone were to make me an offer that I felt at the time was too good to turn down, I'd sell, but I'm not about to waste my time investigating what I might get for the place, since it is irrelevant to my current intentions.
I believe that while there is the prospect of their ownership and expertise continuing to provide increasing returns in terms of wealth (though, I accept, not, currently, in terms of cash dividends), or at least as good or better than they can derive elsewhere, they will continue working towards that end.
That is the difference between us, as I see it.
Time will tell.
 
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